BMW employee on new M3/M4: sloppy talentless drivers need not apply

[Reid]

Originally Posted by AbuArije5

Keep traction control on and drive responsible you should be fine

Isn't it scary to rely 100% on the computerized nannies to tame the car for you?

I apologize, but I simply believe that driver training is a must for everyone, let alone the owners of performance cars. Drivers are always too quick to blame the machinery instead of accepting the blame themselves.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Reid

You can't possibly come close to the limit of ANY modern performance car without years of experience.

Performance cars have been improving by leaps and bounds, while the general populace still has no idea how to drive. Unless one has honed his skills in a controlled environment, he has no idea how to drive whatsoever.

"Spirited" street driving simply does not compare.

You're making too much sense for this thread!!

Originally Posted by Reid

Miatas, E30's, and other "POS" type of cars will continue to bruise the egos of cocky E90/E92 and F80/F82 owners for years to come.

Already happened. An instructor at our last CCA event was out in a STOCK F30 320i with runflats and harrasing (in an eduational way) all kinds of big power cars, including a Stingray. Did I mention it had run flats???

Originally Posted by JAM3S

So I should learn how to drive on a track and get a false sense of confidence and then push the M4 to its limits on public roads?

Some of you children have dangerous mind sets. The majority of M drivers don't track their cars. They aren't interested in pushing cars to their limits.

I think a few of you just want to pretend this car is dangerous like a carrera gt or zr1. M cars are compromise cars, not track monsters.

You have to wrong attitude for this thread. It's almost never the car is dangerous, it's the people who buy these cars, and think they can defy physics because the car is so badass. You should go to the track to learn how to control the car at speed, and you will learn to RESPECT speed. You'll also get your speed fix, and hopefully drive responsibly on the street because you'll know what YOU'RE capable of as a driver. You'll also learn to look up and way ahead of you and how to set your mirrows properly and be much more aware of your surroundings... at least you'll learn all that if you go out with the CCA.

.

[bradleyland]

So what is the point you guys are making?

EDIT: This isn't rhetorical. I'm just slow

[fazman]

So How much more skill does it take to drive a new M3/M4 compared to an FBO N54?

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by fazman

So How much more skill does it take to drive a new M3/M4 compared to an FBO N54?

An ounce? Teaspoon? Meter? Foot?

What units are we using here?

[fazman]

Originally Posted by Jockey

An ounce? Teaspoon? Meter? Foot?

What units are we using here?

My meaning is... we already have a comparable car to the M3/M4 on tracks... it's not that hard. This is all Marketing hype.

Unit's of measure are by the strength of grip on the "oh shit bar" by the passenger

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by fazman

So How much more skill does it take to drive a new M3/M4 compared to an FBO N54?

From an equally reputable BMW employee, I've heard it takes exactly 3 more units of skill to drive.

If you add these 3 units of skill to the quantity of skill required to drive an FBO N54 335i, the total is equivalent to one "LOT of talent."

[norMcal]

That is why the increase in power is pointless on these cars. I don't get excited about it anymore when I read the new XYZ car has more power. The only thing that got me cheering here is that BMW finally smelled the roses and is reducing the weight from the previous generation. I believe that is the first time that has happened and I predict this being a trend. No more big HP increases but more efficiency and reduced weight is were it is at. The reduced mass in itself will make this M3/M4 faster on the track, regardless of skill level, but it is true that 90+ % of owners won't ever come close to using it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by aus

You're making too much sense for this thread!!




Already happened. An instructor at our last CCA event was out in a STOCK F30 320i with runflats and harrasing (in an eduational way) all kinds of big power cars, including a Stingray. Did I mention it had run flats???



You have to wrong attitude for this thread. It's almost never the car is dangerous, it's the people who buy these cars, and think they can defy physics because the car is so badass. You should go to the track to learn how to control the car at speed, and you will learn to RESPECT speed. You'll also get your speed fix, and hopefully drive responsibly on the street because you'll know what YOU'RE capable of as a driver. You'll also learn to look up and way ahead of you and how to set your mirrows properly and be much more aware of your surroundings... at least you'll learn all that if you go out with the CCA.

.

Naturally I side with the guys who endorse tracking/driving schools; it makes a huge difference. With that said, I also don't expect every Tom, Dick & Jane to take their $65-75k performance cars to the track. Most are just not interested in that. On the same token, most people aren't driving their $65-75k performance cars obnoxiously on the street either.

[TeutonicFlight]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Refreshing.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-show...?src=soc_fcbks

"M3/M4: Sloppy drivers need not apply

[Overheard at the Detroit auto show:]

'The M3/M4 won’t tolerate sloppy throttle inputs. It’s without a doubt the highest-performance road car M has built, but it also requires a LOT of talent to drive ... at least BMW has a network of driver’s schools to help there, starting with the teen driving program up through the BMW CCA race schools.'"

- A BMW employee who’s driven the new M3

http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahel...d-paul-walker/

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I didn't intend for my statement to degenerate into a discussion about personal sensitivities/preferences. My only point was to state that his complaint was also a point of contention with the E9X as well

Agreed.

If owners complained about it last time, wouldn't it be nice if they fixed it on the new car though

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Agreed.

If owners complained about it last time, wouldn't it be nice if they fixed it on the new car though

It sure would be (..although I don't personally feel that it needs 'fixing').....


....I guess we'll have to wait until the summer until we find out.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Naturally I side with the guys who endorse tracking/driving schools; it makes a huge difference. With that said, I also don't expect every Tom, Dick & Jane to take their $65-75k performance cars to the track. Most are just not interested in that. On the same token, most people aren't driving their $65-75k performance cars obnoxiously on the street either.

There was a thread on M3Post I can't find right now at work, but the E9x M3 has one of the highest accident rates of all cars. It's pretty well accepted to be a pretty easy car to drive fast... which means, many owners are not as responsible as you.
There's also a thread there asking how so many 20 something owners can afford the cars.
I'm just sayin.

.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by aus

There was a thread on M3Post I can't find right now at work, but the E9x M3 has one of the highest accident rates of all cars. It's pretty well accepted to be a pretty easy car to drive fast... which means, many owners are not as responsible as you.
There's also a thread there asking how so many 20 something owners can afford the cars.
I'm just sayin.

.

I remember that thread, but we can't take the results of a forum and extrapolate that to the 'real world'. The enthusiast group is a small, niche group, and the majority of the people who own these cars are not on the forum(s). From an anecdotal perspective, I pull over cars for a living. All makes and models. The number of youngsters that I run across in expensive cars is small.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I remember that thread, but we can't take the results of a forum and extrapolate that to the 'real world'.

If I'm thinking of the same post, the stats were actually based on "loss value" from insurance providers. The M3 made it on to the list of "highest total loss value" for some insurance organization. I still don't know what I'd take from that, because it's a relatively expensive car. You can wreck three Corollas for every M3 and the M3 will still hold nearly even.

Then again, maybe you guys are talking about an entirely different thread.

[flinchy]

I think the more important unverifiable quote is the s55 turbos smaller than n54... LOL if so they're already maxed out.

[Robin_NL]

AFAIK the F8x M3/4 has a longer wheelbase and wider stance than the E9x M3. Which means even more stable in faster bends.

A E90 M3 is a very easy linear car to drive fast, almost boring. I think the (relatively spoken) 'trickyness' of the F80 M3 is in the way the S55 engine delivers its power. It's not the chassis.

Cheers
Robin

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

AFAIK the F8x M3/4 has a longer wheelbase and wider stance than the E9x M3. Which means even more stable in faster bends.

A E90 M3 is a very easy linear car to drive fast, almost boring. I think the (relatively spoken) 'trickyness' of the F80 M3 is in the way the S55 engine delivers its power. It's not the chassis.

Cheers
Robin

yeah, could be inexperienced BMW drivers not used to the way boost comes on, and not understanding the concept of throttle modulation?

[monkawekrue]

[Ali.K_BMW]

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Not surprised by the comments. The 1M is a handful to drive with the not so linear power/tq, turbo lag and throttle response that isn't nearly as good as an NA motor. The m5/m6 are very much the same way. A lot of power and tq that takes a lot to handle and power that doesn't get out down so well.

Hope the m3/4 aren't like this. Much rather a car that can put down power and carve like a scalpel (or as close as can be given the platform) rather than having bragging rights to hp numbers and burnouts.

[ybbiz34]

Turbocharged cars = boost kicks in and power surges = harder to modulate throttle and control speed.

NA cars = more linear power delivery = easier to modulate throttle and easier to control speed.

That's just how it goes most of the time.