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      03-20-2018, 04:33 PM   #375
bradleym
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Perhaps you're full-on Randian, so I'll never reach you.

To be bit more clear, the SS and Medicare $$ to you personally is not what I meant -- YOU benefit through payments to OTHER people, perhaps even beyond what they paid into the system. Perhaps you never agreed to it, but you benefit in a major way, so nevertheless, you persisted....err insisted.

I cannot convince you of these things, but I am convinced -- Civilization costs money, sometimes it is inefficient and maddening, but ultimately worth it to me. I pay a lot in taxes at all levels--I'm sure most of us do--but so far, have been happy to do so, and really for selfish reasons -- it benefits me ultimately if there is less crime, fewer social problems, more productive citizens, etc.

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Postal service? Paid for by stamp or postage...

Police? Paid for by my local property/sales tax...

Roads? Paid for gas tax...

Air traffic controllers? Paid for by taxes on the air travelers...

Social Security? I and my employer paid into that, about 14% of my wages...damn straight I am going to benefit from it

Medicare? I too paid for that every single paycheck

These are all items outside of the federal income tax collected.
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      03-20-2018, 05:17 PM   #376
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Lol, people talk about cutting, but then never do. Either they cannot stomach the political price, or they find that there actually is plenty of value.

We've done this how many times now, incidentally under the power of the so-called 'limited government' party? Reagan, Bush II, now Twump? So far, 0 for 2 on beneficial outcomes, not expecting this new iteration to play out any better.
It's just so easy.

My mom is not moving in with me. She has paid her taxed.

Kids C is making money now. The short view is what I don't like usually in making profits.
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      03-20-2018, 09:16 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by bradleym View Post
Perhaps you're full-on Randian, so I'll never reach you.

To be bit more clear, the SS and Medicare $$ to you personally is not what I meant -- YOU benefit through payments to OTHER people, perhaps even beyond what they paid into the system. Perhaps you never agreed to it, but you benefit in a major way, so nevertheless, you persisted....err insisted.

I cannot convince you of these things, but I am convinced -- Civilization costs money, sometimes it is inefficient and maddening, but ultimately worth it to me. I pay a lot in taxes at all levels--I'm sure most of us do--but so far, have been happy to do so, and really for selfish reasons -- it benefits me ultimately if there is less crime, fewer social problems, more productive citizens, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kidscollege$ View Post
Postal service? Paid for by stamp or postage...

Police? Paid for by my local property/sales tax...

Roads? Paid for gas tax...

Air traffic controllers? Paid for by taxes on the air travelers...

Social Security? I and my employer paid into that, about 14% of my wages...damn straight I am going to benefit from it

Medicare? I too paid for that every single paycheck

These are all items outside of the federal income tax collected.
Maybe you don't see the waste of $ due to government regulation and BS? I have one project that we will have spent $300k due to environmental bs... and when I say environmental I don't mean oil spills, killing baby seals, or taking the polar bears ice. I am talking about if 5 pedestrians/bicyclist have to detour more than 1/4 mile( yes that's considered environmental). Or if a plan revision (that occurs with in the original foot print) is going to encroach on stream or wetlands even though it is actually more beneficial. Has to go through 3 layers of government (local, state, federal) to get approved...and this is on a small $3million job. Or on another job being built, it is suggested that a change be made to save $200k because the next upcoming job will remove what was just built within 1.5 yrs...but is built anyway because they "didn't want to have to go through environmental reviews"...

Yeah, that's just two little jobs that I have worked on in the last 1.5 yrs that cost us tax payers $500k...who knows how much is wasted elsewhere on larger projects. This is where some of the saving will come in. Not necessarily by cutting SS or post office or air traffic controllers, but other gov services that may not be necessary.
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      03-20-2018, 09:31 PM   #378
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Maybe you don't see the waste of $ due to government regulation and BS?
That's a totally separate issue - if you want to tackle that, do it, but it has nothing to do with federal taxes and like I said, it's small ball these days. Annoying as fuck, but mostly meaningless in the big scheme of things.

And no, payroll taxes don't fully fund Social Security (and it's getting less and less), and they don't even come CLOSE to funding Medicare, so yes your "federal taxes" fund medicare. A LOT of funding. An assload of funding. Like half. And note that in 10 years it goes bankrupt.



Here's other shit just to put this in perspective:





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      03-20-2018, 11:15 PM   #379
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Maybe you don't see the waste of $ due to government regulation and BS?
This is totally separate issue - if you want to tackle that, do it, but it has nothing to do with federal taxes.

And no, payroll taxes don't fully fund Social Security (and it's getting less and less), and they don't even come CLOSE to funding Medicare

I will say it does have to do with fed taxes. These agencies that are doing some (not all) of the over-site (COE, USFW and others) are funded with fed tax dollars. Is it to the amount of our national defense? No. But in just these two little jobs...$500k.
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      03-21-2018, 06:00 AM   #380
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Seven hours later:

Anna learned absolutely nothing yesterday and today is no better. I can't believe I'm this stupid and stubborn and what the hell makes me think one percent interest rate is high with the marginal? It's not that many years back when the rate was 6%!

Honest to coffee I've clearly gone nuts.
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      03-21-2018, 12:32 PM   #381
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Undoubtedly we can all find numerous examples of waste and stupidity -- and probably if I knew even more about this example I'd roll my eyes with you over a beer.

In my experience, however, behind most rules and regulations there are relevant situations and a history that can demonstrate that the rule (at least at one time) was created for rational reasons and might have been very important. Frequently things accrete over time and can start to verge on silliness in subsequent applications. Just the way of the world.

We tend to focus on the stupid regulation, and more than once I have heard people cite the environmental rule, the tax rule or the $300 hammer as evidence the government is a complete waste and taxation is a crime. We often fail to include with the story the various, sundry and often subtle ways that government wealth redistribution, laws and rules are extremely beneficial.

Means exist to correct or remove the stupid situations that occur, but they are time-consuming and probably maddening in their own right, and it is far more satisfying to collapse to the 'I only wanted a burger' position, shrug and move on.

That is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A more complete perspective might lead to an alternate conclusion, at least one that is more nuanced.

Btw, the stupid accretion and silly application of rules (and the consequent waste that results) happens within the relatively efficient corporation in which I work, a private, capitalist entity that also happens to contain a group of humans all trying to find ways to work together effectively to accomplish complex ends...again, just the way of the world.

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Maybe you don't see the waste of $ due to government regulation and BS? I have one project that we will have spent $300k due to environmental bs... and when I say environmental I don't mean oil spills, killing baby seals, or taking the polar bears ice. I am talking about if 5 pedestrians/bicyclist have to detour more than 1/4 mile( yes that's considered environmental). Or if a plan revision (that occurs with in the original foot print) is going to encroach on stream or wetlands even though it is actually more beneficial. Has to go through 3 layers of government (local, state, federal) to get approved...and this is on a small $3million job. Or on another job being built, it is suggested that a change be made to save $200k because the next upcoming job will remove what was just built within 1.5 yrs...but is built anyway because they "didn't want to have to go through environmental reviews"...

Yeah, that's just two little jobs that I have worked on in the last 1.5 yrs that cost us tax payers $500k...who knows how much is wasted elsewhere on larger projects. This is where some of the saving will come in. Not necessarily by cutting SS or post office or air traffic controllers, but other gov services that may not be necessary.
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      03-21-2018, 05:38 PM   #382
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Ok mark the date and mark the time. For once, I agree with Trump.

The leak that he was advised to NOT CONGRATULATE PUTIN ON THE ELECTION is indeed a problem.

This is a confidential foreign policy briefing. To the President. Which he chose to ignore (well within his rights).

I don’t agree with the congratulations, but that’s not the point.

Why is a confidential Presidential briefing showing up in headlines around the world 24 hours after he got it?

It doesn’t matter if you support Trump - that is not cool. Trump is right to be pissed and we all should be pissed with him. Like many other things, this is a breach in protocol that is bigger than partisan leanings.
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      03-21-2018, 05:45 PM   #383
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I will say it does have to do with fed taxes. These agencies that are doing some (not all) of the over-site (COE, USFW and others) are funded with fed tax dollars. Is it to the amount of our national defense? No. But in just these two little jobs...$500k.
I agree, just saying that those things, while super fucking annoying, are meaningless in the big picture.

They're a distraction / sleight of hand trick politicians use to distract from the real job they should be doing but can't and won't ... and ultimately, for me, there's nothing more annoying than someone who doesn't do their job, but tries to fool you with small-ball garbage.

Fix entitlements. That's the job. and every politician that doesn't meaningfully work towards that end is causing a crisis.

And the Republican are not only not doing their jobs and trying to fool us into thinking they are, but they're making the problem WORSE by borrowing yet more money.

So, yes, there's annoying small ball shit, but why bitch about the weed in the lawn while the house is burning down is my point.
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      03-21-2018, 07:48 PM   #384
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Why is a confidential Presidential briefing showing up in headlines around the world 24 hours after he got it?
Because Trump is an erratic, chaotic, horrible manager and leader who isn't trusted or respected by his own staff and his traitorous behavior scares the shit out of them past their own self-interest to outright fear for the integrity of the Presidency and ultimately national security?

I mean I'm just guessing, but it's probably something like that.
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      03-21-2018, 09:17 PM   #385
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Because Trump is an erratic, chaotic, horrible manager and leader who isn't trusted or respected by his own staff and his traitorous behavior scares the shit out of them past their own self-interest to outright fear for the integrity of the Presidency and ultimately national security?

I mean I'm just guessing, but it's probably something like that.
Yeah that’s likely true, but it is a bit of damage to the Presidency that will become a new normal in Presidencies to come. It’s a loss.
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      03-22-2018, 12:05 AM   #386
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Yeah that’s likely true, but it is a bit of damage to the Presidency that will become a new normal in Presidencies to come. It’s a loss.
I don't think so - it's a direct result of a White House staff frustrated and scared beyond the breaking point via toxic management.

Soon Trump will announce that the beatings will continue until morale improves.
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      03-22-2018, 09:37 AM   #387
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Yeah that’s likely true, but it is a bit of damage to the Presidency that will become a new normal in Presidencies to come. It’s a loss.
The other interesting thing about this leak stuff ...

Apparently yesterday DURING NEGOTIATIONS on the spending bill, the President was venting to a small group of his senior staff; and WaPa, CNN, and others were getting multiple leaks in real-time!

But consider other management indicators ...
  1. Sudden 9pm policy lurches announced on tariffs and North Korea
  2. Press conferences called with no warning to his staff
  3. Typos in executive orders and official policy documents! Seriously??
  4. Extreme and shambolic tweets about US government policy
  5. On-going policy flip-flops, e.g., Dreamers: it's over, it's back, it'll be fixed, then nothing at all

That's plain ole simple pervasive carelessness.

Why should we be surprised that, in that environment Trump champions, his staff are breaking and using leaks as a last ditch management device?

What other choice does Trump give them?

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      03-22-2018, 10:34 AM   #388
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I'm not that concerned about the fact of the leak either -- at least by comparison to other norms that are degrading all around us in real time...

Also, saw on Colbert that Obama congratulated Putin the last time around -- admittedly a different situation, the Russians hadn't recently (to our knowledge) been meddling in our election or electrical grid -- but certainly reason to temper the outrage..

There is probably a legal discussion to be had here -- Trump's congratulation of putin broke no law (of which I'm aware), so leaking it was not to expose anything illegal, simply to embarrass Trump (if that is even possible).

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I don't think so - it's a direct result of a White House staff frustrated and scared beyond the breaking point via toxic management.

Soon Trump will announce that the beatings will continue until morale improves.
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      03-22-2018, 06:26 PM   #389
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Replace McMaster with John fucking Bolton....................
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      03-23-2018, 12:11 AM   #390
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Replace McMaster with John fucking Bolton....................


Well ... I guess THAT dude walked after a horrific catastrophe ...

HEY! Maybe the US can do it too!
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      03-23-2018, 12:12 AM   #391
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Remember me Lups ?!
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      03-23-2018, 12:16 AM   #392
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Remember me Lups ?!
Hey.

I thought we SPECIFICALLY SAID no Iowans.

You know why the Mississippi flows south? Because Iowa sucks.
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      03-23-2018, 12:18 AM   #393
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^^^^^^ HEY YOU GUYS THAT TOTALLY WASN'T ME! ^^^^^^^^

I think John Bolton hacked my account!

He's so aggressive.
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      03-23-2018, 12:19 AM   #394
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Remember me Lups ?!
Hey.

I thought we SPECIFICALLY said no Iowans.

You know why the Mississippi flows south? Because Iowa sucks.
Well actually it flows south because the shitty river has to make it home to its even shittier namesake. The state itself is garbage. But I will admit Iowa sucks. Just not as hard as MS. Also, probably flows south due to elevation change.
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      03-23-2018, 04:06 AM   #395
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^^^^^^ HEY YOU GUYS THAT TOTALLY WASN'T ME! ^^^^^^^^

I think John Bolton hacked my account!

He's so aggressive.
Dude it's way too soon for Bolton jokes. This was not a good news morning to wake up to.

Smv: Of course I remember you! How are you?
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      03-23-2018, 11:07 AM   #396
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^^^^^^ HEY YOU GUYS THAT TOTALLY WASN'T ME! ^^^^^^^^

I think John Bolton hacked my account!

He's so aggressive.
Dude it's way too soon for Bolton jokes. This was not a good news morning to wake up to.

Smv: Of course I remember you! How are you?
I'm well! Long time, no talk. How have you been? Family doing well, I hope!
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