Why does it feel like everyone hates the M3/M4?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by minn19

It is crazy the performance that is available today. I believe my SuperCrew F-150 can get to 60 in less than 6 seconds.

That's an even better example.

Found these from an old Bimmerfest post:

1987 BMW M3 8.1 16.1
1988 BMW M3 7.1 15.4
1995 BMW M3 6.2 14.6
1995 BMW M3 Lightweight 5.3 13.9
1996 BMW M3 Automatic 6.7 15.3
1996 BMW M3 Luxury 6.6 14.9
1998 BMW M3 Sedan 5.5 14.0
2001 BMW M3 Coupe (U.S.) 4.8 n/a
2001 BMW M3 Convertible (U.S.) 5.4 n/a
2002 BMW M3 4.7 13.4
1988 BMW M5 6.3 14.6
1991 BMW M5 6.5 14.9
1993 BMW M5 6.2 14.6
2001 BMW M5 4.7 13.2
2002 BMW M5 4.8 13.3

[SEXY-BEAST]

Haters are always gonna hate...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SEXY-BEAST

Haters are always gonna hate...

Is there a reason that a ton of different members here keep posting this same childish non thinking phrase? Isn't once or twice enough?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by minn19

Is there a reason that a ton of different members here keep posting this same childish non thinking phrase? Isn't once or twice enough?

Good point, but I don't even understand how "haters" apply in this context.

The F8X is not a perfect car, therefore it's ok when someone doesn't like it or thinks it could be better. To me that's not "hating" - it might be criticism, but that's ok too...we don't all have to like the same thing.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Good point, but I don't even understand how "haters" apply in this context.

The F8X is not a perfect car, therefore it's ok when someone doesn't like it or thinks it could be better. To me that's not "hating" - it might be criticism, but that's ok too...we don't all have to like the same thing.

There is no perfect car out there all have there pluses and minuses. It just comes down to which one fits best for your individual wants and needs IMO.

I can't stand that phrase though, it is such lazy cop out.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by minn19

There is no perfect car out there all have there pluses and minuses. It just comes down to which one fits best for your individual wants and needs IMO.

I can't stand that phrase though, it is such lazy cop out.

That's what I was getting at. People who have a 918 will argue with those that have a P1 as to which one is better - that's a good thing.

There are definitely aspects of the F8X platform that BMW can improve on the next M3/M4 - competition, constructive criticism and folks voting with their respective wallets will drive the company to do better.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That's what I was getting at. People who have a 918 will argue with those that have a P1 as to which one is better - that's a good thing.

There are definitely aspects of the F8X platform that BMW can improve on the next M3/M4 - competition, constructive criticism and folks voting with their respective wallets will drive the company to do better.

Imo, it does what it's built for perfectly. Awesome daily driver+Awesome track weapon. I've never been in a car that handles that well,.and is that comfortable at the same time.

[BigMacSmallFries]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

This is a generalization I'm making, perhaps poor in concept but it feels like a lot of people hold a bitter judgment over the M3 and M4.

I've been a long time lurker, and wanter (word?) of the M3 and M4. I'm hoping perhaps on getting one sometime soon (fingers crossed). That being said, in all my travels, I haven't seen as many car enthusiasts dog on cars as much as these.

Sure, I've seen some Corvette fans do it with the Stingrays, and Dodge fans with the Hellcats...Just seems like people are overly negative on these cars (M3 and M4).

Are they bad? I don't want to waste time, money and energy if it isn't going to be the car I want it to be.

And no, I haven't driven it yet. :?

'

Simply put the car is ///Mediocre, nothing special about it in anyway, mostly just an appearance package with a lot of hp which the rear suspension can't handle. If you drive hard, it's a disappointing overall package. The E46 and E9x M3 were perfect for their time, they decided to sell to the mass market and appeal to China in particular. It's not what it was in the past simply put.

EDIT: I owned the F80 M3 manual for over 2 years before I decided that I couldn't get over how far this car is from a sports car, was in denial thinking I could fix it with mods and gave up.

[WarrENDeatH]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

'

Simply put the car is ///Mediocre, nothing special about it in anyway, mostly just an appearance package with a lot of hp which the rear suspension can't handle. If you drive hard, it's a disappointing overall package. The E46 and E9x M3 were perfect for their time, they decided to sell to the mass market and appeal to China in particular. It's not what it was in the past simply put.

EDIT: I owned the F80 M3 manual for over 2 years before I decided that I couldn't get over how far this car is from a sports car, was in denial thinking I could fix it with mods and gave up.

This is disappointing to hear. What did you end up going after instead, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm keeping the GTI in mind. Just because cost and fun, seems like a solid value.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Motodude310

Imo, it does what it's built for perfectly. Awesome daily driver+Awesome track weapon. I've never been in a car that handles that well,.and is that comfortable at the same time.

Very true - which highlights the fact that multiple things can be true at the same time:

F80 looks great, has a broad range of uses, has aged pretty well...but is also lacking a bit on the "stir of the emotions" side of things, and has a pretty sideways thumb exhaust note, even on the ZCP (at least in my opinion).

[BigMacSmallFries]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

This is disappointing to hear. What did you end up going after instead, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm keeping the GTI in mind. Just because cost and fun, seems like a solid value.

I bought a Shelby GT350, much better. Along with the Porsche GT4 hands down the best driver's cars under 100k. Very reminiscent of the E9x M3. The GT4 and GT350 are very different approaches to the same problem. Ultimately though that got traded in for a 997.2 Turbo manual. Having the last Turbo manual was very appealing to me, and a significant improvement mechanically over the 997.1. Been happier than I thought, no weak points on the 997.2 other than the bland engine sound.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by minn19

I tend to agree about the E9X. After hearing how hyped up and sweet sounding it was.....when I got to hear one at an AutoX, I was surprised how quiet it was. When it did get up in the rev range though it did sound much better.

Of the two cars though most would agree the non ZCP F80/82/83 needs an aftermarket solution much more than the E9X version did.

People often confuse a sweet sounding engine with a loud exhaust, for me the S65 was glorious to hear all the way through the rev range, it had many tonal changes from a lovely low speed burble a sonorous mid range through to roaring induction and on to a bit of mechanical thrash as you hit the red line.

And most importantly it was mostly engine noise not contrived exhaust noise designed to just give volume with scant regard to quality.

I put a loud exhaust on my old e92CP (Tubi) which gave it a crazy bark but you lost all the delicate sounds and tonal range that made the car a joy to listen to, so that came off.

The F80s sound is, frankly, not even on the bus that takes you to the S65 ball park.

[Gibson6594]

I really hope the next M3/4 sounds like dogshit so I can read all the posts about how great the F80/2 sounded in comparison.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

I really hope the next M3/4 sounds like dogshit so I can read all the posts about how great the F80/2 sounded in comparison.

Hahahahaha it is like that Woody Allen movie, Midnight in Paris. Everyone always thinks things were better before, but tend to forget all the negatives (like 200 something odd pounds of torque and looks). Nostalgia is a bitch.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

This is disappointing to hear. What did you end up going after instead, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm keeping the GTI in mind. Just because cost and fun, seems like a solid value.

I've had a MK6 GTI for 5 years now. Going to keep it as a daily when I pick up the M. It's a really fun, solid car. The block can handle a ton of abuse. But at 70k miles I had to rebuild my transmission. Grenaded 3rd gear, and the DSG ain't cheap. Took the opportunity to install a Quaife and clutch packs at least.

I'd say just go for a long test drive in the M. Obviously it's not everybody's cup of tea. But I loved it.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

'

Simply put the car is ///Mediocre, nothing special about it in anyway, mostly just an appearance package with a lot of hp which the rear suspension can't handle. If you drive hard, it's a disappointing overall package. The E46 and E9x M3 were perfect for their time, they decided to sell to the mass market and appeal to China in particular. It's not what it was in the past simply put.

EDIT: I owned the F80 M3 manual for over 2 years before I decided that I couldn't get over how far this car is from a sports car, was in denial thinking I could fix it with mods and gave up.

This might be the most factually incorrect thing I've read in a while.

You didn't really enjoy it but let's not go full retard here.

[backagain]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

'

Simply put the car is ///Mediocre, nothing special about it in anyway, mostly just an appearance package with a lot of hp which the rear suspension can't handle. If you drive hard, it's a disappointing overall package. The E46 and E9x M3 were perfect for their time, they decided to sell to the mass market and appeal to China in particular. It's not what it was in the past simply put.

EDIT: I owned the F80 M3 manual for over 2 years before I decided that I couldn't get over how far this car is from a sports car, was in denial thinking I could fix it with mods and gave up.

How many M3 has BMW exported to China and sold there? It is easier to spot a Ferrari or a Lambo on streets there than a M3.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

Simply put the car is ///Mediocre, nothing special about it in anyway, mostly just an appearance package with a lot of hp which the rear suspension can't handle. If you drive hard, it's a disappointing overall package. The E46 and E9x M3 were perfect for their time, they decided to sell to the mass market and appeal to China in particular. It's not what it was in the past simply put.

EDIT: I owned the F80 M3 manual for over 2 years before I decided that I couldn't get over how far this car is from a sports car, was in denial thinking I could fix it with mods and gave up.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

I really hope the next M3/4 sounds like dogshit so I can read all the posts about how great the F80/2 sounded in comparison.

I'd say the e92 was the outlier when it comes to M3s as it was the only one that sounded good, the F80 continues the M3 tradition of sounding raspy and well a bit crap.

But lets not confuse sounding good with being a better car, the F80 is a step on from the e92 in all respects except one.

[BigMacSmallFries]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

This is disappointing to hear. What did you end up going after instead, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm keeping the GTI in mind. Just because cost and fun, seems like a solid value.

Originally Posted by neilum

This might be the most factually incorrect thing I've read in a while.

You didn't really enjoy it but let's not go full retard here.

You're reading at face value.

Originally Posted by backagain

How many M3 has BMW exported to China and sold there? It is easier to spot a Ferrari or a Lambo on streets there than a M3.

China is the biggest market for BMWs now. Isolation is preferred there. Have you seen the new 5 series and 7 series reviews? Complete isolation. Wait to you see the next 3 series that uses the CLAR chassis. Things are about to get worse.

Originally Posted by Draper

I've never quite been able to figure out if people are honestly defending the M cars this generation because they actually believe they are good or because they are spending money on it and have a lot of pride, or lastly they haven't owned various cars to compare it against.

I went back and test drove an E92 M3 when I owned the F80 M3 to make sure I wasn't imagining things. The E92 M3 was at least twice as good as the F80 M3. Sold it the following week after confirming I wasn't imagining things.

Either way comparison tests keep everyone honest and you should use these, paints a good picture as to what's wrong with the M2/M3/M4. If you like the looks of the car go for it, if you're looking for a satisfying driving experience, don't bother, it's dead average in this generation. The M2 and M4 variants place almost dead last among competition that wasn't that competitive just a few short years ago. The M2 is a much better all around car than the M4, and even that has a lot of trouble in it's segment or standing out.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

http://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-m...bling-rivalry/

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/12/14/bm...16-contenders/

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclar...t-drivers-car/


PS I was the biggest BMW fanboy out there, loved the brand until they quietly changed direction. Check these links out, very honest commentary, covers the various issues present with the cars. Many cheaper cars do well in these tests, you shouldn't need to spend an excess to get a driver's car.

Take care and good luck! I would suggest waiting to see if an M2 competition is released or M2 CS if you can swing it. I feel that it's maybe possible for them to get good reviews. I'll be waiting patiently.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

I've never quite been able to figure out if people are honestly defending the M cars this generation because they actually believe they are good or because they are spending money on it and have a lot of pride, or lastly they haven't owned various cars to compare it against.

It's a mood thing:

• If I want dinner conversation that challenges me, then I'll go out with my wife

• If I just want to goof off and have fun, then I'll go out with my girlfriend

[johnbenedict]

I find on the internet there are haters everywhere!!

As long as YOU love it..is all that matters.

I love my 2016 M3. Don't really care what anyone else says.