6MT or DCT?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

I test drove a DCT ZCP a few weeks back and now I can compare to my 6MT I took home last Thursday. 6MT is 1000000x better than the DCT.

That feels like more of an estimate ... I'd like to see the actual number.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That feels like more of an estimate ... I'd like to see the actual number.

If I have said it once I have said it 30 billion times.

I hate it when people exaggerate!

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That feels like more of an estimate ... I'd like to see the actual number.

Looks about right to me.

That's two people who agree, which pretty much makes it fact.

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That feels like more of an estimate ... I'd like to see the actual number.

that is the actual number.

Originally Posted by dinonz

Looks about right to me.

That's two people who agree, which pretty much makes it fact.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

that is the actual number.

Sweet, finally!

Welp, now we just need to see the data behind that, and then we can close this thread down.

Administrator?

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Sweet, finally!

Welp, now we just need to see the data behind that, and then we can close this thread down.

Administrator?

I would like to, but my dog tore up the house while I was out (separation anxiety - for which he's been getting help) and the data has disappeared. Apparently he bit the shit out of it. Sorry.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

I would like to, but my dog tore up the house while I was out (separation anxiety - for which he's been getting help) and the data has disappeared. Apparently he bit the shit out of it. Sorry.

[dinonz]

He's even driving n M! Color me impressed!

Originally Posted by captainaudio

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Let's bring this dead horse back to life shall we.

Just watch a few seconds of this Civic Type R review. Ignore the car, just listen to comments about the MT in general.

Jump to 8:41

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by pheerlx

Ignore the car, just listen to comments about the MT in general.

Jump to 8:41

That car seems pretty cool - if I wanted a manual, that might be something to consider, and not a bad price (looks heinous though but whatever).

They talk again about MT ~12:30 and basically establish what a manual is these days: a piece of nostalgia to indulge in, but not a serious car for a racer. Right now I get my highest enjoyment from timings and advantage, but if I were just going to drive, MT is the way to go, and if I wanted a second car for that go-carty fun, that Civic looks cool.

I'm not ever sure why we have a controversy: if you want time, DCT, if you want involvement, MT. Done.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That car seems pretty cool - if I wanted a manual, that might be something to consider, and not a bad price (looks heinous though but whatever).

They talk again about MT ~12:30 and basically establish what a manual is these days: a piece of nostalgia to indulge in, but not a serious car for a racer. Right now I get my highest enjoyment from timings and advantage, but if I were just going to drive, MT is the way to go, and if I wanted a second car for that go-carty fun, that Civic looks cool.

I'm not ever sure why we have a controversy: if you want time, DCT, if you want involvement, MT.

Done.

If you are driving on public roads, well below the limits of the car, an MT may make you fell more involved and can, for some, make the experience more enjoyable. There is a great deal of satisfaction in perfectly executing a double clutched heel and toe downshift.

If you are driving a car with a paddle shifted transmission on a track and are at the limits and using 100% of the car you are 100% involved and if you are not you should be.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

If you are driving a car with a paddle shifted transmission on a track and are at the limits and using 100% of the car you are 100% involved and if you are not you should be.

Maybe ... I'd say there's plenty of room to be a track rat who loves an MT, i.e., an "MT class" race, or just to enjoy the fun of MT driving in a safe environment ... and in that respect being and MT hobbyist / enthusiast versus a racing hobbyist / enthusiast.

If you like to race, then it's DCT, and the history of racing is using anything you can to get an advantage: 1 millisecond is an eternity.

So that's the decision: are you an MT enthusiast or a racing enthusiast?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Maybe ... I'd say there's plenty of room to be a track rat who loves an MT, i.e., an "MT class" race, or just to enjoy the fun of MT driving in a safe environment ... and in that respect being and MT hobbyist / enthusiast versus a racing hobbyist / enthusiast.

If you like to race, then it's DCT, and the history of racing is using anything you can to get an advantage: 1 millisecond is an eternity.

So that's the decision: are you an MT enthusiast or a racing enthusiast?

My point is that if you are driving any car at the limits on a track if you want to keep the car on the track you better be 100% involved.

My usual track car (Spec Miata) has an MT as do all of the cars in that class so transmission type is moot as everyone in a Spec Miata race is driving an MT.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

My point is that if you are driving any car at the limits on a track if you want to keep the car on the track you better be 100% involved.

My usual track car (Spec Miata) has an MT as do all of the cars in that class so transmission type is moot as everyone in a Spec Miata race is driving an MT.

....,,and a Miata!

We got a 2016 track pack in ceramic. That car is so fun! 2300 lbs, 6 speed and cheap! (Inexpensive)

[ellipsis212]

You bought what you liked best. Congrats!

I came in shopping for a manual, drove both, and ended up with a DCT and love it. Left foot gets a little nostalgic every now and then!

[Memphis17CPM4]

Originally Posted by ellipsis212

You bought what you liked best. Congrats!

I came in shopping for a manual, drove both, and ended up with a DCT and love it. Left foot gets a little nostalgic every now and then!

@ellipsis212 You and I both. I've driven manuals for 20 years. There are only three reasons I feel that people prefer manual over DCT 1) wanting to feel "connected" to the car and 2) die-hard paradigm lovin' enthusiast. 3) can't afford the up charge for the DCT (Don't say you don't want to spend the money, we are driving $70+ cars... you have disposable income if you are driving it, if you don't please refer to #3 again). There is nothing wrong with any of those and I would support anyone in those categories. However, there is no competitive advantage to a DCT. That is why BMW will phase them out. Ok, I just cinched the Velcro on my neck guard on my fire suit, I am ready now

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by Memphis17CPM4

@ellipsis212 You and I both. I've driven manuals for 20 years. There are only three reasons I feel that people prefer manual over DCT 1) wanting to feel "connected" to the car and 2) die-hard paradigm lovin' enthusiast. 3) can't afford the up charge for the DCT (Don't say you don't want to spend the money, we are driving $70+ cars... you have disposable income if you are driving it, if you don't please refer to #3 again). There is nothing wrong with any of those and I would support anyone in those categories. However, there is no competitive advantage to a DCT. That is why BMW will phase them out. Ok, I just cinched the Velcro on my neck guard on my fire suit, I am ready now

Is that why DCT's aren't in the next gen? I was thinking BMW would be cutting costs by using auto trans too

[ellipsis212]

I will add that if the F80 had been offered as either a manual or a slushbox with no paddles then there would only be one choice for many of us. Luckily there is a very tantalizing choice for most of us and the downside is only that we have to choose.

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by Bem4

Is that why DCT's aren't in the next gen? I was thinking BMW would be cutting costs by using auto trans too

True already implemented on the new M5 8spd auto, DCT would cost more than 8spd auto and much complicated for repair.

[Memphis17CPM4]

Originally Posted by zamboni

True already implemented on the new M5 8spd auto, DCT would cost more than 8spd auto and much complicated for repair.

I have no comparison for a BMW auto vs manual or DCT. I could see a scenario where I would choose manual over a under performing auto though. However, like someone above stated, we are fortunate to have this difficult (for some) choice to make. It would utterly suck if one of the two options were a lame duck.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Memphis17CPM4

@ellipsis212 You and I both. I've driven manuals for 20 years. There are only three reasons I feel that people prefer manual over DCT 1) wanting to feel "connected" to the car and 2) die-hard paradigm lovin' enthusiast. 3) can't afford the up charge for the DCT (Don't say you don't want to spend the money, we are driving $70+ cars... you have disposable income if you are driving it, if you don't please refer to #3 again). There is nothing wrong with any of those and I would support anyone in those categories. However, there is no competitive advantage to a DCT. That is why BMW will phase them out. Ok, I just cinched the Velcro on my neck guard on my fire suit, I am ready now

What about (compared to a standard AT):

• Less power loss during upshift
• Lighter drivetrain components (less rotating mass)
• Less parasitic losses
• Faster shift response
• Ability to skip to any gear

The reason BMW is phasing them out is one of cost, not "competitive advantage" (read performance). There is a reason the high-end sport car makers are still using DCTs (Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, Bugatti, etc...)

[Memphis17CPM4]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What about (compared to a standard AT):

• Less power loss during upshift
• Lighter drivetrain components (less rotating mass)
• Less parasitic losses
• Faster shift response
• Ability to skip to any gear

The reason BMW is phasing them out is one of cost, not "competitive advantage" (read performance). There is a reason the high-end sport car makers are still using DCTs (Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, Bugatti, etc...)

Maybe I wasn't clear or maybe I'm confused. I meant that BMW is phasing out manuals one day. That is what I meant, do I have that incorrect?