GTS manual conversion?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JLS_397K

I understood it, hence why I said, if you have already spent money on GTS and have more money to spend available, then do it! Yes, you do it because you want to personal enjoyment. But no man has ever gone throughout life without some type of financial consideration, Cars or else.

And yes, the thread is about a conversion of such a car... But at the end of the day, these post will be here in the future and there will be individuals that don’t own a GTS. They may stumble across this thread considering to purchase a GTS for the track/spirited driving. Do they want the car or do they just want similar performance. That’s all.

It would be so cool to manual swap a GTS! One day... we'll see...

[Higgy_CSL]

Originally Posted by chetsstm3

Does anyone know if a manual conversion is reasonably possible for a GTS? I did a quick search but haven't found anything too helpful. It's really a great car but I just never drive it because I long to row my own gears. I was getting ready to take a bath on it and let her go but I figured a quick post here might breathe new life into the GTS for me! Thanks for any help.

PM me if you still have your GTS, I’m am looking to acquire one. Is yours the frozen grey? Did you ever decide to convert it from DCS it tri-pedal?
Looking for a low mile clean example, if it’s a manual conversion I would be highly interested.

[Angry As Hell]

I bet if a fella dangled enough dollars in front of "old M3F" Forum Member "KAIV," he'd try it. The dude seems like a natural when it comes to complicated car repair.

[undermine]

Originally Posted by Angry As Hell

I bet if a fella dangled enough dollars in front of "old M3F" Forum Member "KAIV," he'd try it. The dude seems like a natural when it comes to complicated car repair.

I guess I will be the one to revive this thread, I am swapping from a DCT to 6MT, my car literally floated away in Hurricane IDA, the insurance company played games, 60K, I installed full PPF, Exoshield on my windshield, newly installed ohlins, car was mint. I bought the car back, stripped it completely, new everything basically, I powder coated the head and block, block was also sleeved, Carillo Rods, CP Pistons, Nostrom Stage 3 Injectors, Dorch Lift Kit and Stage 3 LPFP, Shrick Cams, Super Tech Valvetrain, Pure Stage2+.

Swapping a DCT for a Manual isn't too hard at all.

So out with the DCT and in with the 6MT, DCT I am going to dump on ebay with Deka Stage 3 Clutches and this pretty Fall-Line pan and Mishimoto Transcooler.

The fact that Manuals will no longer be available scares me, the DCT really is a great trans, I haven't had a manual in many years so here we go.

[Jbonly21]

Nice, sounds like a great project so far. Any pictures?

[HELROTM3]

I have a GTS and would be so down to swap to a manual if the right shop had experience doing it and I knew specifically what I was getting myself into.

[HELROTM3]

I reached out to Kaiv. He's looking into it. If anyone has any solid advice, people to reach out to, etc.., I'd love to hear it.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by HELROTM3

I reached out to Kaiv. He's looking into it. If anyone has any solid advice, people to reach out to, etc.., I'd love to hear it.

I would trust Kaiv to do the swap, no questions.
A manual m4 gts sounds lovely

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by HELROTM3

I reached out to Kaiv. He's looking into it. If anyone has any solid advice, people to reach out to, etc.., I'd love to hear it.

+1 to Kaiv.

I hear OG Shark is about to work on a Manual to DCT to swap. You can probably pick his brain on how to do the reverse.

[gabriel.psd]

Makes perfect sense to swap to 6MT from DCT. DCT feels completely unnatural in the F8X, and it feels totally at home in the E9X. You don't stay at full boost during shifts like the ZF auto and it doesn't rev up/drop revs fast enough to warrant that fast of shifts like a DCT does. The V8 in the E92 absolutely benefits from the DCT.

S65 = DCT
S55 = 6MT

Full send on this. And full send on Kaiv.

[HELROTM3]

Originally Posted by gabriel.psd

Makes perfect sense to swap to 6MT from DCT. DCT feels completely unnatural in the F8X, and it feels totally at home in the E9X. You don't stay at full boost during shifts like the ZF auto and it doesn't rev up/drop revs fast enough to warrant that fast of shifts like a DCT does. The V8 in the E92 absolutely benefits from the DCT.

S65 = DCT
S55 = 6MT

Full send on this. And full send on Kaiv.

The GTS - DCT is mega. Really good! I feel it's on par, or close to, a 991.1 GT3 PDK, Porsche. That said, I'm not tracking the car so it would be amazing to have a manual option with my GTS. I don't care about the values or issues with converting it. I'm excited if Kaiv can help!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gabriel.psd

Makes perfect sense to swap to 6MT from DCT. DCT feels completely unnatural in the F8X, and it feels totally at home in the E9X. You don't stay at full boost during shifts like the ZF auto and it doesn't rev up/drop revs fast enough to warrant that fast of shifts like a DCT does. The V8 in the E92 absolutely benefits from the DCT.

S65 = DCT
S55 = 6MT

Full send on this. And full send on Kaiv.

I disagree. I have two e92 M3s with DCT (one with a 3.62 FD clutch-type LSD), a f82 with DCT and a f22 m240ix with ZF8 AT. The tuning of the f8x DCT is far superior to the e9x M, it feels “perfectly at home” in the f82 with s55, and, although it’s mated to a b58, the f22 ZF8 AT is inferior to a DCT. How can something not “benefits from a DCT”? The f82 GT4 factory-built race car came with a DCT.

[gabriel.psd]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I disagree. I have two e92 M3s with DCT (one with a 3.62 FD clutch-type LSD), a f82 with DCT and a f22 m240ix with ZF8 AT. The tuning of the f8x DCT is far superior to the e9x M, it feels “perfectly at home” in the f82 with s55, and, although it’s mated to a b58, the f22 ZF8 AT is inferior to a DCT. How can something not “benefits from a DCT”? The f82 GT4 factory-built race car came with a DCT.

DCT on S55 feels awful and there's zero benefit from DCT on the S55. Sure, shifts are faster (nobody cares), but then what? You're still waiting for boost to come back. If you're going to wait anyways, 6MT feels incredible on this platform and based on how the S65 and S55 behave, DCT on S65 feels much better than DCT on S55. Fast revving V8, crisp shifts, downshifts with immediate response.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gabriel.psd

DCT on S55 feels awful and there's zero benefit from DCT on the S55. Sure, shifts are faster (nobody cares), but then what? You're still waiting for boost to come back. If you're going to wait anyways, 6MT feels incredible on this platform and based on how the S65 and S55 behave, DCT on S65 feels much better than DCT on S55. Fast revving V8, crisp shifts, downshifts with immediate response.

There is no loss of boost and “waiting for the boost to come back” - seriously? With that comment it makes me wonder if you’ve actually driven a f8x with DCT. Other than your opinion, do you have any real objective quantifiable numbers, data, data logs, etc. to backup your statements? Whether you stay in gear to redline or short shift at 6-6.5k rpm, there is no wait for the boost to build on the next gear and acceleration is instantaneously continued in the next gear. If what you’re saying is true then it would get worse with a longer shift time because the turbos will lose more boost due to a larger drop in engine rpm and exhaust flow velocity. You’re the first person I’ve heard to say the s55 + DCT are a bad combination. If that’s true, why is the f8x with DCT faster to 60 mph and the 1/4 mile? If there’s this supposed “wait” for boost between each DCT gearshift, why isn’t the 6MT faster? I can literally drive back to back to back s65 DCT w/ 3.62 FD and s55 + DCT and s65 + DCT 3.15 FD and I can unequivocally state there is no lag/wait for boost to build between s55 + DCT gearshifts with stock engine tuning and stock turbos. I also notice zero lag/missing boost on a gts engine tune and a stage 1 tune. I’ve been tracking my car for eight years and I’ve never felt this lack of boost even during a 45 min track session. The fastest f8x on the Nordschleife are DCTs. Factory GT4s have DCTs. Limited production GTS and CS have DCTs.

[HELROTM3]

Let's get back to the ability to "swap" a GTS from a DCT to a manual? Any input from people with experience?

[gabriel.psd]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

There is no loss of boost and “waiting for the boost to come back” - seriously? With that comment it makes me wonder if you’ve actually driven a f8x with DCT. Other than your opinion, do you have any real objective quantifiable numbers, data, data logs, etc. to backup your statements? Whether you stay in gear to redline or short shift at 6-6.5k rpm, there is no wait for the boost to build on the next gear and acceleration is instantaneously continued in the next gear. If what you’re saying is true then it would get worse with a longer shift time because the turbos will lose more boost due to a larger drop in engine rpm and exhaust flow velocity. You’re the first person I’ve heard to say the s55 + DCT are a bad combination. If that’s true, why is the f8x with DCT faster to 60 mph and the 1/4 mile? If there’s this supposed “wait” for boost between each DCT gearshift, why isn’t the 6MT faster? I can literally drive back to back to back s65 DCT w/ 3.62 FD and s55 + DCT and s65 + DCT 3.15 FD and I can unequivocally state there is no lag/wait for boost to build between s55 + DCT gearshifts with stock engine tuning and stock turbos. I also notice zero lag/missing boost on a gts engine tune and a stage 1 tune. I’ve been tracking my car for eight years and I’ve never felt this lack of boost even during a 45 min track session. The fastest f8x on the Nordschleife are DCTs. Factory GT4s have DCTs. Limited production GTS and CS have DCTs.

Shifts don't hold full boost on the DCT, no matter how you feel about it or how long a paragraph you type. The G80 is auto, holds full boost during shifts.

S55 feels better with 6MT. S65 feels better with DCT. I'm not sure how else to put this, but your opinion quite literally means nothing to me. And again, nobody cares if GT4, GTS and CS came with DCT. The CSL came with SMG and that was absolutely horrible.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gabriel.psd

Shifts don't hold full boost on the DCT, no matter how you feel about it or how long a paragraph you type. The G80 is auto, holds full boost during shifts.

S55 feels better with 6MT. S65 feels better with DCT. I'm not sure how else to put this, but your opinion quite literally means nothing to me. And again, nobody cares if GT4, GTS and CS came with DCT. The CSL came with SMG and that was absolutely horrible.

Supporting data logs please showing the loss in boost and lag before boost builds in a DCT. How about any other objective source other than your own opinion stating/supporting what you say? In any f8x DCT I’ve driven in S2 or S3 immediately slips the rear tires as you upshift. It would not happen if I’m sitting there waiting for the boost to build because that would act like traction control. You’d think I’d really notice it if I switch between s65 to s55 to s65 if it’s so readily apparent with the s55 + DCT.

Great. I’m glad you like your s55 + 6MT but “feels better” to you is your subjective opinion. Please provide an objective source or quantitative data logs.

[gabriel.psd]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Supporting data logs please showing the loss in boost and lag before boost builds in a DCT. How about any other objective source other than your own opinion stating/supporting what you say? In any f8x DCT I’ve driven in S2 or S3 immediately slips the rear tires as you upshift. It would not happen if I’m sitting there waiting for the boost to build because that would act like traction control. You’d think I’d really notice it if I switch between s65 to s55 to s65 if it’s so readily apparent with the s55 + DCT.

Great. I’m glad you like your s55 + 6MT but “feels better” to you is your subjective opinion. Please provide an objective source or quantitative data logs.

Subjective opinion is the only valid metric in a thread about swapping a GTS from DCT to MT where the owner states he wants to be more engaged while driving.

The S55 cuts boost and doesn't hold full boost on upshifts. That's how it works. The auto in the S58 does. That's your data. I slip my tires shifting into 3rd if I want on my 6MT. It doesn't matter, I'm still not holding full boost.

You can swap from your E92 to your F82 40 times in a row before lunch arrives. It doesn't matter. What objective source can there possibly be on a subjective topic like what transmission one prefers on what engine? You're acting like you married DCT and have to fight for its honor.

S55 deserves 6MT. S65 deserves DCT.

[RugbyBro]

DCT definitely doesn't cut boost, quite the opposite actually.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gabriel.psd

Subjective opinion is the only valid metric in a thread about swapping a GTS from DCT to MT where the owner states he wants to be more engaged while driving.

The S55 cuts boost and doesn't hold full boost on upshifts. That's how it works. The auto in the S58 does. That's your data. I slip my tires shifting into 3rd if I want on my 6MT. It doesn't matter, I'm still not holding full boost.

You can swap from your E92 to your F82 40 times in a row before lunch arrives. It doesn't matter. What objective source can there possibly be on a subjective topic like what transmission one prefers on what engine? You're acting like you married DCT and have to fight for its honor.

S55 deserves 6MT. S65 deserves DCTIMO.

For the owner that wants to swap gts trans, absolutely it’s his subjective opinion and only his subjective opinion is the only thing that matters. Making a blanket statement without any quantifiable supporting data that the S55 + DCT don’t work well together IS YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION. PERIOD.

Whether it does or does not hold peak boost, the DCT is NOT waiting for boost to build before it accelerates in the next gear and the acceleration in the next gear is higher than it was at the end of the previous gear. DCT shifts take 0.01 sec to complete and the S55 + DCT never stops accelerating whereas a MT is around 0.2-0.3 sec for a competent driver and what’s happening to the S55 + MT while this shift is being executed? It’s decelerating due to drag + a much larger drop in rpm between gears which means a larger drop in exhaust velocity which means a larger drop in boost pressure before you complete your shift and get back on the throttle yet somehow the S55 + DCT which never stops accelerating is waiting for boost to build but the MT does not have an even larger boost delta to build before it starts to accelerate again in the next gear? There’s no need to cut boost with a DCT considering the next gear is already selected and only requires the release of one clutch and the engagement of the 2nd clutch to exchange gears.

Now it’s all a subjective discussion? If that’s the case then stop writing in absolutes and add “IMO” to all of your posts because that’s all that it is - your own qualitative opinion. I’m defending the S55 + DCT from asinine subjective statements that are being tossed around as absolutes. Please enjoy YOUR favorite S55 + 6MT power-drivechain combination. Isn’t the 6MT a direct carryover from the e9x M3 so its gear ratios aren’t optimized for the S55?

Sorry OP. I hope your 6MT swap goes smoothly and is everything you had hoped it would be! I have absolutely nothing against MTs. I’ve enjoyed driving on track MTs in ed9 CRX Si, eh3 Civic Si, e30 M3s, e36 M3s, e46 M3s, NA1 NSX, NA2 NSX, AP1 S2000 and AP2 S2000. However, I absolutely love the performance of the DCT on both s65 and s55 engines. SMG II with s54 + CSL software + lightweight flywheel is a nice setup if you drive it like a manual transmission (slight lift between gear changes).

[WhiskerBuilt]

Holy brain rot no way we have someone saying a DCT doesn't belong on a S55. The $1500 coil overs with $8000 wheels tells me all I need to know. Enjoy the park and chills.

[HELROTM3]

Can we bring this back to the OP's original question? Anyone with an experienced opinion weigh in. I've been in touch with Kaiv. Making some progress.