F80 M3 vs E92 M3 Dyno Numbers by Motortrend

[kardboard]

Originally Posted by Eddien123

I won't deny the spread. I think we can all agree it's way faster than the E92 however I'm calling bullshit that the E92 only puts down 300 and that the f82 only puts down 350 when I've seen many many other dyno charts to counter that

I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees with you, or anyone else complaining about the e9x m3 showing low numbers.

The only thing we can take from this is the difference in power the two motors make. Obviously the F8x makes a lot more power than the E9x. The car is underrated just like all bmw turbo motors.

People should be excited that the new M3 makes a lot more power than the E9x, I don't get all the salt in these threads.



I wonder how long until we stat criticizing the next M3?b

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The lowest S65 dyno that I have ever seen in my life that I could believe was 330 WHP... that would make the F80x at 406 WHP; far mooore believable but still on the lower end. This can't be a dynojet and if it is; what settings r they using?

I've done tons of pulls on a Dyno Dynamics when my E92 M3 was stock. All fell between 305-311 horsepower.

That translates to around 350-360 on a Dynojet which is what people are used to seeing but a Dynojet is a bullshit artist, DD and Mustang are considered more accurate and read very close to the MAHA which is the absolute most accurate dyno out there.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by kardboard

I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees with you, or anyone else complaining about the e9x m3 showing low numbers.

The only thing we can take from this is the difference in power the two motors make. Obviously the F8x makes a lot more power than the E9x. The car is underrated just like all bmw turbo motors.

People should be excited that the new M3 makes a lot more power than the E9x, I don't get all the salt in these threads.



I wonder how long until we stat criticizing the next M3?b

Well said sir.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by MKE_M3

I'm definitely not an expert, but...

1) Assume E9X makes 414 HP at the flywheel
2) Assume proportionate drivetrain/dyno loss

Loss = 1 - (306/414) = 26%
F8X HP at the flywheel = 379/( 1 - Loss ) = 379/.74 = 513 HP

Obviously I'm making some assumptions and 513 BHP seems ludicrously high, but WOW!

Just stop. Crank hp conversions are completely meaningless. Let's not go down that route again.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Just stop. Crank hp conversions are completely meaningless. Let's not go down that route again.

This feels like the dumber version of Swamp's thread. My point is, I'm feeling pretty comfy here.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Just stop. Crank hp conversions are completely meaningless. Let's not go down that route again.

Just as an observation that nobody has pointed out yet, the unit used here seems to be a 4WD dyno where both the front wheels and rear wheels are running on mechanically interconnected rollers.

If it is the case, the front wheels are also accelerated during the dyno run. The additional power consumed to accelerate the front wheels as well as the front tire rolling resistance will have an impact on the dyno reading. This can explain the "low reading" for both cars. It can also explains why the peak power number of the S65 is at such a low RPM.

[Buddy Revell]

Random thought, but I would like to see a same day/same dyno comparison between an M4 and C7 Stingray to see if they are putting out similar power to the wheels.

[klammer]

Fuck the Dyno, I wanna see lap times! Isn't that what the m3 is all about?

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by kardboard

I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees with you, or anyone else complaining about the e9x m3 showing low numbers.

The only thing we can take from this is the difference in power the two motors make. Obviously the F8x makes a lot more power than the E9x. The car is underrated just like all bmw turbo motors.

People should be excited that the new M3 makes a lot more power than the E9x, I don't get all the salt in these threads.

Me too. Isn't a great car despite all the fears a good thing? Sure, it's not bespoke, it doesn't sing, it's not V8 (because 8 is always better than 6, just ask your girlfriend ), the shift-point is 1000-1500RPM lower, the torque line isn't so flat you could serve dinner on it, and it uses that damned turbo technology...

... but the fact is, the car manages to have a distinct sound despite the turbo, manages to make turbo lag (depending on review) either barely noticeable or non-existent, and absolutely trounces the previous model while not even going at full steam. And with the engine discussion put aside, the rest of the car (whether suspension, brakes, mpg, comfort, gadgets) is flat out better. And the best part is, this is only the beginning. All of the complaints about DCT or steering in the E92 was addressed through software. The launch-year car was frankly a bit underwhelming, and it took time for the platform to mature before it truly became the captivating bitch that she is.

I don't understand this hostility between the two camps. The E9X M3 is probably one of the best general production NA cars ever made, and the F8X M3 is probably one of the best general production turbo cars ever made. I think the E9X owners hating on the new car are just eating sour grapes that they don't have the latest shiny anymore. On the F8X side, most of the haters seem to be 335i-tuner guys, who let's not forget brought the douchebag stereotype to BMW. Both groups need to grow up or GTFO.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

This feels like the dumber version of Swamp's thread. My point is, I'm feeling pretty comfy here.

Why are you even chiming in on this conversation? You don't even drive a 'real' M3.

[///Maria]

wt"F".. my e92 M3 hit 338 on a Mustang dyno.. and these are usually lower than on a dynojet...

[Stillsaving4abmw]

Nice!

[Buddy Revell]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I don't understand this hostility between the two camps. The E9X M3 is probably one of the best general production NA cars ever made, and the F8X M3 is probably one of the best general production turbo cars ever made. I think the E9X owners hating on the new car are just eating sour grapes that they don't have the latest shiny anymore. On the F8X side, most of the haters seem to be 335i-tuner guys, who let's not forget brought the douchebag stereotype to BMW. Both groups need to grow up or GTFO.

I personally notice way more E9X guys hating than the other way around.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

I personally notice way more E9X guys hating than the other way around.

Well there's more of them. Whereas most of the F8X haters don't actually seem to own either car, they are just the "hurrdurr, turboz always better, check out my fishlips in my selfie" jerkwads. I actually saw one of these guys (won't name names) ask if his "expensive jeans will stain silverstone or opal white interiors".

[///Maria]

how about i just smoke you all in the 235i and call it a day

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by ///Maria

how about i just smoke you all in the 235i and call it a day

lol at the two-thirty-five-eye

the F8x just obliterated the E9x on the dyno sista

[M3ryder55]

exactly, salty e9x owners. big motor gas guzzling era is over for everyone. move with the times. if not buy used cars for the next 10 years or hold onto your current cars.

i'm still amazed by the fact the S55 makes the same power at 4500rpm as the S65 at 8k. thats incredible.

kudos bmw! i can't wait

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Me too. Isn't a great car despite all the fears a good thing? Sure, it's not bespoke, it doesn't sing, it's not V8 (because 8 is always better than 6, just ask your girlfriend ), the shift-point is 1000-1500RPM lower, the torque line isn't so flat you could serve dinner on it, and it uses that damned turbo technology...

... but the fact is, the car manages to have a distinct sound despite the turbo, manages to make turbo lag (depending on review) either barely noticeable or non-existent, and absolutely trounces the previous model while not even going at full steam. And with the engine discussion put aside, the rest of the car (whether suspension, brakes, mpg, comfort, gadgets) is flat out better. And the best part is, this is only the beginning. All of the complaints about DCT or steering in the E92 was addressed through software. The launch-year car was frankly a bit underwhelming, and it took time for the platform to mature before it truly became the captivating bitch that she is.

I don't understand this hostility between the two camps. The E9X M3 is probably one of the best general production NA cars ever made, and the F8X M3 is probably one of the best general production turbo cars ever made. I think the E9X owners hating on the new car are just eating sour grapes that they don't have the latest shiny anymore. On the F8X side, most of the haters seem to be 335i-tuner guys, who let's not forget brought the douchebag stereotype to BMW. Both groups need to grow up or GTFO.

Why are you even chiming in on this conversation? You don't even drive a 'real' M3.

So true, great post.

[W12x]

Good to see that BMW is making great turbo engine for the new M3/4. Being an E92 owner myself, I never really liked the S65 that much, but the numbers on these dyno charts are a little low for both cars.

If I stay with BMW I will probably get a F8x sooner or later, but the car I really want is the rumored light weight 2.5L version of the FR-S....

[kevinlevrone]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Just as an observation that nobody has pointed out yet, the unit used here seems to be a 4WD dyno where both the front wheels and rear wheels are running on mechanically interconnected rollers.

If it is the case, the front wheels are also accelerated during the dyno run.

Maybe you should one day visit and use a 4WD dyno and you will see that the front rollers are not interconnected to the rear rollers when you set it to 2WD. I have done tons of pulls on a 4WD Mustang with my 335i.

[M3 n X5M]

The F8X is described as remarkably faster in all situations by the new owners' threads on this forum.

The dyno data support the significant acceleration improvements.

What is the big issue if the absolute hp values are low in these two runs? We do not need lengthy and educated reasoning here...

The important thing is the whopping differential in the maximum peak hp, sustained power over a broad rpm range and low rpm values: in all of these the F8X is overwhelmingly superior.

I am an E90 owner and I am not upset. This is progress!!!! Why are all the s65 M3 owners mad? Wanting refunds, crying their cars are under represented here... Well, the s65 engine is weaker.

This is kind of like the transitions we see in a Ferrari: 308, 328, 348, 355, 360, 430, 458... And guys who drive a 355 still swear by the sound, 360 for the rigidity, 430 for the huge hp, and 458 for the Hyper speeds achievable today, and 308 guys just love their cars for weekend driving.

Enjoy the old, enjoy the new. The new is a lot better, and that is ok.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Hobbination

That was the first thing I was thinking too, where are the fans? This is going to start another dyno convo, it would be so cool if there was one type of dyno, hermitically sealed in a room where all conditions were the same all the time. Were seeing ranges of 370 to the wheels up to 420 to the wheels. Whatevs. Cars still amazing

Difference in air pressure can fuck up the readings.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kevinlevrone

Maybe you should one day visit and use a 4WD dyno and you will see that the front rollers are not interconnected to the rear rollers when you set it to 2WD. I have done tons of pulls on a 4WD Mustang with my 335i.

See video below at 4:30. I believe it is the exact same dyno used for the runs in this thread.

I agree however that not all 4WD dyno have their rollers interconnected (or have the option to disconnect). My post was simply intended as a potential explanation for the low reading on those specific dyno runs.