Pagid RS29 brake pads: clunking noise when changing between drive and reverse.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by C-Mu

On a side note. I just completed my first track day on my RS29s and my rotors are smeared pretty bad. I assume it will go away but anyone else notice pad deposits with their RS29s?

That's not "smear", that's pad's material transferring to the rotors, which is exactly what you aim to achieve during pad break-in.
It's all good.

Originally Posted by awbmw

Yup, same here. My belief is that the OEM rotors aren't particularly good at very high temperatures,

Dude, do you have any facts to substantiate this claim?

Most folks who track their F8x cars eventually upgrade the pads, but leave stock rotors alone as they are more than adequate for the task at hand.

Originally Posted by awbmw

and the pagids can take higher temps than the rotors, Especially if tracking in hot weather or long sessions.

Prove it!

Otherwise, please quit spreading misinformation. Or take it to Twitter...

a

[Alvinized52]

I replaced my brake pads with Power Stop a while ago... and I hear this clunking when switching forward from reverse... and vise versa. It never bothered me before and I thought it had something to do with my KW HAS springs. (I've heard springs can make clunking noises as well). Only happens on the first time I step on the brake after switching each direction.

Sounds like this isn't something to be worried about after reading this thread. That said, I must say it does sound like its getting worse... Im hoping I'm not damaging anything by keeping these aftermarket brake pads. Please advise.

[beemvey]

To those of you who daily drive the RS29s without excessive squealing: did you use any anti-squeal compound, or transfer the backing plate or anything else from the stock pads when installing the RS29s? Or did you just install the RS29s as they are straight out of the box? My RS29s squeal so loudly when coming to a stop (much worse than RS29s on a 991) that I have to roll up the windows and even then it pierces into the cabin pretty bad. They also clunk loudly (much more than on a 991) when reversing direction.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by beemvey

To those of you who daily drive the RS29s without excessive squealing: did you use any anti-squeal compound, or transfer the backing plate or anything else from the stock pads when installing the RS29s? Or did you just install the RS29s as they are straight out of the box? My RS29s squeal so loudly when coming to a stop (much worse than RS29s on a 991) that I have to roll up the windows and even then it pierces into the cabin pretty bad. They also clunk loudly (much more than on a 991) when reversing direction.

You need to have a generous amount of transfer layer on the rotors to prevent the squealing.

Pairing RS29 pads with rotors that don't have the transfer layer will squeal like hell. Bedding helps, but you really need a good session on track to be able to transfer enough pad material onto the rotors. After a track day, I am usually good for ~2 weeks of street driving before they start to squeal again.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You need to have a generous amount of transfer layer on the rotors to prevent the squealing.

Pairing RS29 pads on rotors that don't have the transfer layer will squeal like hell. Bedding helps, but you really need a good session on track to be able to transfer enough pad material onto the rotors. After a track day, I am usually good for ~2 weeks of street driving before they start to squeal again.

I have exactly same experience.
No grease used. Just track it once. After it will peep once in awhile, at certain pedal pressure, but nothing close to what you describe.
Clunking will not go away though, learn to love it)

[1MORELAP]

CanAutM3 knows what he is talking about. Just saying.

Just put my 29s on, clunking is there. I have yet to bed them. But swapping pads is so easy, I am going to do it every time I swap wheels.

BTW, has anyone fund a perfect punch for the pins? I am going to use it so much, I would pay $20 to 30 bucks.

Tomasz

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

BTW, has anyone fund a perfect punch for the pins? I am going to use it so much, I would pay $20 to 30 bucks.

The first pin punch I bought was the one offered by RB Performance Brakes (previously known as RacingBrake). They used to sell them on eBay. Their shipping charges were ridiculous for such a small, lightweight part, but i was desperate at the time and my e-mail confirmation shows that I paid $22.11 with shipping. They are listed on their website for $14.95 + $5.95 S&H, plus tax (if applicable).

On our #CentennialMTour group Euro Delivery in May 2016, we used this pin punch to change out the stock pads for Pagid RS29s on a total of 8 cars, including my M4, an M4 CP, and M3, and 5 M2s, prior to heading to Nurburgring Nordschleife, Circuit Spa Francorchamps, and Spa Francorchamps. We did all 8 cars in three hours! At the end of that marathon session, the open end was pretty flared from knocking the pins back into the calipers.

After we returned home, I used it to swap out the Pagids and re-install the stock pads. The end was so flared that I had to lightly tap it with a hammer on the garage floor to get it to fit into the holes. Bottom line, this is not a durable tool. We researched other punches and another member of our group found this one set on Amazon, the Fixxxer Hollow End Stainless Steel Starter Punch Set for only $8.49. This is a set of four punches. Either the largest punch or the second largest punch is the perfect size. This punch has held up far longer than the other punch, as I've used it myself 8 times and it looks as good as new.



In addition to the punch, we also looked for a dedicated hammer, preferably a two-sided one with a hard surface on one end and a softer surface on the other end for pounding the pins back into the caliper. I ordered this one from Amazon, the Wheeler 711016 Nylon/Brass Hammer for $14.95. As indicated, it's brass on one end for pounding the pins out, and nylon on the other end for pounding the pins back in and minimizing damage to the caliper paint. I keep the punch in a plastic bag and it lives in the box that I keep the Pagids in, along with the hammer.



Both are eligible for Amazon Prime. For nearly the same price as the RB punch, you can have a better punch and a dedicated hammer with 2-day free shipping!

[ferrarif1]

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

CanAutM3 knows what he is talking about. Just saying.

Just put my 29s on, clunking is there. I have yet to bed them. But swapping pads is so easy, I am going to do it every time I swap wheels.

BTW, has anyone fund a perfect punch for the pins? I am going to use it so much, I would pay $20 to 30 bucks.

Tomasz

The two medium size punches in this set: Amazon work great and the price is only $8.50

Edit: Looks like @SD ///M4 posted the same set already, nice suggestion on the hammer!

[The Choosey begger]

I use CRC brake quiet to keep my track pads from clunking, it's like a brake pad high temp silicone/gasket.
Most of the squeals will be gone too. It keeps the pads firmly in place.

not my photo

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by anglo

I use CRC brake quiet to keep my track pads from clunking, it's like a brake pad high temp silicone/gasket.
Most of the squeals will be gone too. It keeps the pads firmly in place.

not my photo

Interesting.
It surely can reduce squeal, but I doubt it can prevent the pad moving from one side of the a slot to the other under the weight of the car changing rolling direction. A assume you are not applying it to the sides of the pad.

Edit: I am also curious how this paste will look after a good portion of break dust. And if it will become abrasive from the dust in it. I doubt it will do good for the dust boots, seals.

[The Choosey begger]

[QUOTE=Lojs;21804808]Interesting.
It surely can reduce squeal, but I doubt it can prevent the pad moving from one side of the a slot to the other under the weight of the car changing rolling direction. A assume you are not applying it to the sides of the pad.

Edit: I am also curious how this paste will look after a good portion of break dust. And if it will become abrasive from the dust in it. I doubt it will do good for the dust boots, seals.[/QUOTE


You apply it on the back of the pads, it acts like the oem pads shield for a tighter fit.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by anglo

I use CRC brake quiet to keep my track pads from clunking, it's like a brake pad high temp silicone/gasket.
Most of the squeals will be gone too. It keeps the pads firmly in place.

not my photo

If the pad shims can be purchased on their own, that would be the best way to go. Adding the shims to the RS29 will take care most of the noise issues.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

If the pad shims can be purchased on their own, that would be the best way to go. Adding the shims to the RS29 will take care most of the noise issues.

I am surprised there is no business case in this for any manufacturer. I would assume it's a pretty straightforward manufacturing process.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

If the pad shims can be purchased on their own, that would be the best way to go. Adding the shims to the RS29 will take care most of the noise issues.

CRC is just as good, the clunking is 100% eliminated.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Lojs

I am surprised there is no business case in this for any manufacturer. I would assume it's a pretty straightforward manufacturing process.

At least not with the racing pad manufacturers.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by anglo

CRC is just as good, the clunking is 100% eliminated.

If I'd get shim pads it would be for their heat shielding properties. I really got used to the clunking after 4 sets of pagids.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Lojs

If I'd get shim pads it would be for their heat shielding properties. I really got used to the clunking after 4 sets of pagids.

A lot of people that track their cars use CRC or high temp RTV with no adverse effects, just tryin to help.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by anglo

A lot of people that track their cars use CRC or high temp RTV with no adverse effects, just tryin to help.

As long as they are capable of providing some cushioning and not melt under high brake temps you are good to go!

[Flying Low]

Maybe someone has mentioned this before regarding the clunk when changing direction. If you look closely at the OEM pads you will see that the pad has a shim on the back side that actually extends over the edge of the metal where the pad slides back and forth in the caliper. The racing pads don't have this shim ( but they use the same size metal backing as the OEM pad) so there is about 1/16" extra clearance between the edges of the pad and the caliper. I'm surprised that the racing pad manufacturers haven't just increased the size of the metal backing so that there is just enough clearance so that the pad doesn't slam back and forth in the caliper.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Flying Low

Maybe someone has mentioned this before regarding the clunk when changing direction. If you look closely at the OEM pads you will see that the pad has a shim on the back side that actually extends over the edge of the metal where the pad slides back and forth in the caliper. The racing pads don't have this shim ( but they use the same size metal backing as the OEM pad) so there is about 1/16" extra clearance between the edges of the pad and the caliper. I'm surprised that the racing pad manufacturers haven't just increased the size of the metal backing so that there is just enough clearance so that the pad doesn't slam back and forth in the caliper.

None of them do.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Flying Low

Maybe someone has mentioned this before regarding the clunk when changing direction. If you look closely at the OEM pads you will see that the pad has a shim on the back side that actually extends over the edge of the metal where the pad slides back and forth in the caliper. The racing pads don't have this shim ( but they use the same size metal backing as the OEM pad) so there is about 1/16" extra clearance between the edges of the pad and the caliper. I'm surprised that the racing pad manufacturers haven't just increased the size of the metal backing so that there is just enough clearance so that the pad doesn't slam back and forth in the caliper.

The Pagid RS29s were great on track. They do click when changing direction. They did squeal a bit before they were broken in but don't seem to squeal now - but then again my OEM pads squeal when reversing. They also click when going over bumps.

None of this is too annoying for me. All in all a good pad for the track that stands up well to high temps.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by rich8566

The Pagid RS29s were great on track. They do click when changing direction. They did squeal a bit before they were broken in but don't seem to squeal now - but then again my OEM pads squeal when reversing. They also click when going over bumps.

None of this us too annoying for me. All in all a good pad for the track that stands up well to high temps.

The knocking from the backing and squeal from the friction material never bothered me, but that is just me. It's just the nature of some of the racing pads out there.