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      11-16-2013, 05:48 PM   #1
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M3/M4 in snow?

Disclaimer - I've read a fair amount about RWD vs FWD vs AWD in inclement weather. I'm looking for info from people who have driven their M cars in snow. It would be great if they did it in Colorado where I live.

I grew up in Colorado and my first car was a '66 Mustang. I learned to drive in the snow in a manual Honda Civic with FWD, then drove a number of years in my Mustang with an auto and wimpy straight six. I had studded tires and sandbags in the trunk.

I've been trying to decide between the "old man's car" - a new Stingray - or the "more practical" M3/M4. I'm the family bus at times for our two kids and need to be able to get around in the Colorado weather. Our two SUVs (Touareg and MDX) may not be available when I need them.

So my question is this: who here has driven their M3 in snow? How did it go for you? Colorado daily driver? If you had to be available for family bus duties would you venture out in the M3? (I don't care about road salt, damage to appearance, etc). I'm talking strictly about the driving experience.

I'm torn between getting a 335/435 xDrive with a few mods/tune, or waiting for the M3/4. I'll never track the car...

Thoughts?
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      11-16-2013, 06:18 PM   #2
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Live in Minnesota and have driven an e92 m3 full time for 4 years. The key is proper snow tires then it works pretty effectively. The only issues are when there is a heavy snow before plows come the car has low clearance. I have an aggressive lip too so kinda like a plow. Also if the roads are covered steep inclines can be challenging. Overall I have never been stuck. Go for it, great all around car and puts a smile on ur face every day.
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      11-16-2013, 07:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drburton View Post
Live in Minnesota and have driven an e92 m3 full time for 4 years. The key is proper snow tires then it works pretty effectively. The only issues are when there is a heavy snow before plows come the car has low clearance. I have an aggressive lip too so kinda like a plow. Also if the roads are covered steep inclines can be challenging. Overall I have never been stuck. Go for it, great all around car and puts a smile on ur face every day.
+1, I visit MN quite often and have experience driving all sorts of cars through midwest winters.....

Can it be done? Yes, as drburton stated.

Would I do it? No. Even for Seattle winters we always have a Subaru as a daily driver.
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      11-16-2013, 07:52 PM   #4
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I live in CO and currently have a 2010 E92 M3 as daily driver. Pilot Super Sports on 19"s during the summer. Non-staggered Sottozeros on 18"s during the winter. Zero issues. The low clearance mentioned above would have been an issue only ONCE in the past three years, but I used to have a winter car for those days.

There are significant differences in driving experience, suspension and handling between the 335/435 xDrive and the M3. I have driven all, sufficient time. With proper tires and wheels, unless we see one of those 9"+ storms, you shouldn't see snow as a major factor in your decision.

Feel free to message me if you need further details.
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      11-16-2013, 08:56 PM   #5
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It's all about the tires.

I had a Subaru Legacy GT Limited with AWD. All-season tires.
Also had a BMW 335i RWD. Winter tires.

The BMW was 1000x better in the snow.

With the BMW your only concern is going to be clearance. If there is a lot of slush/wet snow packed up on the street, which you probably rarely get in Colorado, I would avoid driving even with snow tires. I did this two Christmases ago in my 335i and I got high-centered trying to pull into my parent's street with about 3-5" of snow on the ground. (Major streets were clear, theirs was not.)
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      11-16-2013, 09:43 PM   #6
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^ Roger that. Proper tires make all the difference, although AWD will always be better than FWD or RWD on same tires in snow.

I've driven a G35 Coupe through Ohio winter in the past with winter tires. I never had any problem. In fact, I had so much fun drifting everywhere whenever it snowed. I also used to have an STi and nothing could stop it in the snow. I drove through a snow storm from Ohio to Virginia and felt like I was on a rally stage I'm not sure if I could have done the same in a RWD car and had so much fun in the process.

Anyway, as long as you put proper tires on it, I wouldn't worry about it unless ground clearance becomes a problem.
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      11-16-2013, 10:13 PM   #7
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With good snow tires, unless you're plowing snow with the splitter you're good. The combination of 50/50 weight distribution and the marvelous M limited slip diff make it as good a 2-wheel-drive snow car as you can get.
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      11-17-2013, 06:42 AM   #8
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Once you have the right tires (which it sounds like you know all about), it comes down to whether you will be navigating roads with steep grades on a routine basis where you really need the traction of AWD to successfully pass. Here in MI, especially in the SE we don't really have roads like that. Now in Colorado I'd expect that to be a factor in some areas.

By the way, if I absolutely needed AWD then I would wait for the new W205 C AMG which is rumored to offer AWD like the E63 and CLS63 do now. It seems to me like a much better option than a 335i or 435i xDrive if you are going for the closest approximation of an AWD M3/4.
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      11-17-2013, 07:19 AM   #9
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12 winters of driving M3s in the snow for me. I live in Montreal, so we get our fair bit of snow and cold spells and the ///Ms always worked pretty well in winter. As others have stated, the only issue is the low clearance when there is accumulation above 6" where the car seems to "float" on the snow and lose traction. Otherwise it is a blast to drive in the slippery stuff. Good tires are the key. I run PA3 which I find are a good compromise between dry, ice and snow grip. The new PA4 are apparently even better.

Go ahead and enjoy
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      11-17-2013, 08:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerQuest View Post
I'm looking for info from people who have driven their M cars in snow. It would be great if they did it in Colorado where I live.

I grew up in Colorado and my first car was a '66 Mustang. I learned to drive in the snow in a manual Honda Civic with FWD, then drove a number of years in my Mustang with an auto and wimpy straight six. I had studded tires and sandbags in the trunk.


So my question is this: who here has driven their M3 in snow? How did it go for you? Colorado daily driver? If you had to be available for family bus duties would you venture out in the M3? (I don't care about road salt, damage to appearance, etc). I'm talking strictly about the driving experience.

I'm torn between getting a 335/435 xDrive with a few mods/tune, or waiting for the M3/4. I'll never track the car...

Thoughts?
I have driven my M3 in the snow and it did quite well here in CO. If the snow gets too deep then you will have problems with clearance but other than that, a good set of winter tires will work wonders. I don't daily drive the M3 anymore. Got a truck and a motorcycle (weather permitting) for that and the truck is used for winter driving in the Mtns. There are others on here who DD their M3's in this state. I'm sure they will chime in.
Here is mine in the snow
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      11-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #11
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new engine has much more torque. That will affect snow grip somewhat even with good snow tires
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      11-17-2013, 03:07 PM   #12
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Nowadays your biggest issue will be clearance and if you need more than 5" of clearance regularly you should probably be in one of your SUVs.

I've driven my e39 m5 on 235/45/17 mid-line winter tires and it was better than my heavier e60 535xit on skinner continental DWS all-seasons.
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      11-17-2013, 04:07 PM   #13
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I ride on Michelin PA4s in the winter and I make it up to the passes for skiing a few times a year in the snow. I would way rather have my RWD LSD M3 than any FWD car out there. Handles great and with the right tires you'll be able to hold your own.
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      11-17-2013, 05:42 PM   #14
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OH yes, and I forgot to mention how incredibly fun it is to drive with the tail hung out out all over the place in the snow. Not required - just incredibly fun!
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      11-18-2013, 10:06 AM   #15
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For those of you getting a winter beater (at least for snow days), do you guys just go with a FWD snow tire setup or is it worth looking for a Civic CRV AWD with snows? No steep inclines, but sometimes I have to get to work and the roads can have 3-4 in of wet snow on top of packed ice/snow.. Thinking AWD is probably the better way to go. Yes, I have driven RWD/snow setups without a problem.
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      11-18-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
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Boston gets a lot of snow, I would probably opt for the CRV AWD - but all/seasons would be more than enough for a vehicle like that. Millions of people drive in the snow with crappy FWD cars with A/S tires and they get there just fine so I think that would work for you if the CRV and Subarus etc are too pricey.

We got a crap ton of snow last year and I bought a $5000 former cop car (Crown Vic) with all seasons as a winter beater and that was the most fun I have ever had. (RWD, of course). Sold it in the spring for what I bought it for.

For the price of winter set of wheels and blizzaks, you're halfway to buying a winter beater anyway, honestly.
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      11-18-2013, 11:42 AM   #17
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Lol.. that's awesome.. How does a Crown Vic handle in the snow, even in snow tires? I've always wanted to know that

As an aside, another benefit of a winter beater (or at least, snow beater) is that I don't trust other people. Most people can't drive worth a crap, my own sister doesn't know how to recover from a skid (what a joke!), so when you add snow to that equation, you end up with an increased probability that some jack ass hits you ..

Last edited by absoluteis350; 11-18-2013 at 11:56 AM..
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      11-18-2013, 04:54 PM   #18
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I live in the Northeast. I drive with OEM 220M 18"s as winter wheels, will be putting them on soon. It's fine. Of course, i don't have a lowered car, no lip. The roads are normally plowed well, so it's fine.

Would be nice having a TTRS just for the winter lol.
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      11-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #19
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Tires are a must which everyone agrees on, I even put winters on the X5. One thing which actually makes the M3 a dream to drive in the snow compared to other NON-Xi based BMW's is the LSD. I drove my past 540,545 and 550 in the snow with winters with very little issues but they all had open diffs which presented issues. The M3 with LSD makes the car drive 100X better.

You have two wheels always digging instead of 1 slipping when the power over took the drive wheel in the 5 series. This allowed the car to loosen up and made any slipping or sliding a bit more uncontrollable with lack of throttle.

When you are in a turning situation, the ability to control understeer or snow plow with a slight blip of the throttle is very useful and predictable. The open diff 5 series was not as predictable and a bit more of a challenge to utilize that technique. In these situations, the precision in when and how much throttle to use is very apparent(if you are experience or comfortable doing that)
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      11-19-2013, 04:51 PM   #20
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I actually love my M3 in the snow with 18s and winter tires. I hope the same size 18s fit the the new M4!!!!
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      11-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #21
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Agreed with everyone above! The M3's limited slip differential, excellent chassis balance, and forgiving driving dynamics make the car very snow-friendly with the right tires, and the right driver behind the wheel.

With that said, I always consider an additional factor when choosing a winter car- although a car enthusiast may be able to handle any under/oversteer situations brought on by reduced traction, the people around you are rarely as capable. The likelihood of another driver losing control of their own car is much higher in winter conditions, and for this reason I always use a cheaper car for winter time.

With all that said, my winter cars are still always RWD, and BMWs.
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      11-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #22
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I know you didn't ask for suggestions, but have you considered the Audi S4? It has the best all wheel drive system in the business and it sure is fun to drive on the street and track. I did enjoy my M3 more than the current S4 when it comes to pure driving enjoyment, but the S4 is very fast, handles well, and is a much better daily driver than the current M3. It is a blast to drive in the snow with snow tires even in deeper snow that would stop the M3 (about 2" more inches of clearance). Living in Pitkin County CO (8,000 feet with lots of snow) with the M3 is fun in the summer but not in the winter, and the S4 has a very impressive engine and overall setup.
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