BMW M CEO Nitschke discusses electric steering for M3/M4, AWD for M, etc.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by W///

Again, Porsche = "There is no substitute"... for a V6 Cayenne diesel? Sure there is. I know you do't like 911s, but how come you don't hold THEM to a higher standard? Even though they are a sports car company first, family car second.

I'm just calling it as I see it, that's all.

Personally, I couldn't care less that they have the Cayenne and the ridiculous Panamera (hate the way they look), I'd hop in ANY 991 or Cayman any day.

because you can afford to mess around with your niche models
the suv, or sav or sca or whatever bmw is calling them now
but when you start cutting corners on your prime model?
I don't think anyone would disagree the M3 is what made the M division
so that's the one model, you don't F#$% with
or you shouldn't anyway

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by kmarei

I assume you have not read a single review of the new 911 then?
all the ones I have seen all mentioned how the steering on the new one
is not as good as it used to be

I have read nearly every review and to do one better Ive actually driven the car. I will agree its not AS good as a previous GT3, but it is damn close! It picks up 95%+ of what the previous 911s had, and at 95% of a previous 911 means its still the best out there, bar none.

If you drove the new 911 and you didnt know it was electric steering, youd never notice. So yes, it is like hydraulic.

Automobile:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...e/viewall.html

"Oh, the steering is perfectly accurate, and its weighting is just like old 911's. Driven in anger, it starts to transmit information about the road surface..."

Edmunds
"The new electromechanical power steering isn't perfect, but there's still plenty of magic in how a 911 bites into a corner.

Let's be clear. This is the best electric power steering ever installed in a production car. And as such, it sets a new standard that every other manufacturer will be chasing."

Or go watch the Chris Harris video where he flat out says it has GT3 levels of feedback and precision.


I could go find many others that say its still an amazing steering feel with precision and accuracy that few can even compare to.


You do realize the 911S was picked as the best driver's car over the likes of the Mclaren and aventador and many other great cars...all cars with hydraulic racks...and as such steering precision/feel is a big part of being a driver's car. That should tell you something. The car is still a scalpel and i doubt anyone will match them in electric steering for a long time and by then they will only have improved it that much more.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I have read nearly every review and to do one better Ive actually driven the car. I will agree its not AS good as a previous GT3, but it is damn close! It picks up 95%+ of what the previous 911s had, and at 95% of a previous 911 means its still the best out there, bar none.

If you drove the new 911 and you didnt know it was electric steering, youd never notice. So yes, it is like hydraulic.

Automobile:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...e/viewall.html

"Oh, the steering is perfectly accurate, and its weighting is just like old 911's. Driven in anger, it starts to transmit information about the road surface..."

Edmunds
"The new electromechanical power steering isn't perfect, but there's still plenty of magic in how a 911 bites into a corner.

Let's be clear. This is the best electric power steering ever installed in a production car. And as such, it sets a new standard that every other manufacturer will be chasing."

Or go watch the Chris Harris video where he flat out says it has GT3 levels of feedback and precision.


I could go find many others that say its still an amazing steering feel with precision and accuracy that few can even compare to.


You do realize the 911S was picked as the best driver's car over the likes of the Mclaren and aventador and many other great cars...all cars with hydraulic racks...and as such steering precision/feel is a big part of being a driver's car. That should tell you something. The car is still a scalpel and i doubt anyone will match them in electric steering for a long time and by then they will only have improved it that much more.

Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...iews/120829811

"No, it's not a hindrance to placing the Carrera S accurately wherever you want it, but, indeed, the classic Porsche feel is gone. After all, it was the feel that was always a significant part of the Porsche driving experience, and losing it is certainly nothing to applaud. Despite what Porsche marketing might say, it's pretty hard for me to ignore the fact the change to this system was driven massively by EPA mileage standards rather than making a better sports car"

Car & Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

"Changes to the steering will be most apparent for those familiar with past 911s. In previous generations, the steering wheel shimmied, shook, and, well, communicated every last pebble on the road. But no more.According to Porsche engineers, this is not because the 911 has switched from hydraulic-assist power steering to electric-assist, which it has, but rather because “toning down” the steering sensations allows drivers to better concentrate on going quickly."

I could go on and on
the fact is every single review I have read has mentioned the power steering
so there has been definitely been a change.
the fact is the electric steering is not fully developed as the hydraulic systems
remember when run flats first came out?
BMW started using them, and they sucked, the big one.
Now, the runflats are indistinguishable from the regular ones.
my point is, on an M car, the supposed pinnacle of BMW motorsports division, half assed solutions should not be considered. When they mature and are perfected, then sure.

[dhoggm3]

Well said Kmarei. I can only hope BMW M does a really good job with the e-steering.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by kmarei

Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...iews/120829811

"No, it's not a hindrance to placing the Carrera S accurately wherever you want it, but, indeed, the classic Porsche feel is gone. After all, it was the feel that was always a significant part of the Porsche driving experience, and losing it is certainly nothing to applaud. Despite what Porsche marketing might say, it's pretty hard for me to ignore the fact the change to this system was driven massively by EPA mileage standards rather than making a better sports car"

Car & Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

"Changes to the steering will be most apparent for those familiar with past 911s. In previous generations, the steering wheel shimmied, shook, and, well, communicated every last pebble on the road. But no more.According to Porsche engineers, this is not because the 911 has switched from hydraulic-assist power steering to electric-assist, which it has, but rather because “toning down” the steering sensations allows drivers to better concentrate on going quickly."

I could go on and on
the fact is every single review I have read has mentioned the power steering
so there has been definitely been a change.
the fact is the electric steering is not fully developed as the hydraulic systems
remember when run flats first came out?
BMW started using them, and they sucked, the big one.
Now, the runflats are indistinguishable from the regular ones.
my point is, on an M car, the supposed pinnacle of BMW motorsports division, half assed solutions should not be considered. When they mature and are perfected, then sure.

Gee, you seem to have an issue with Electric Power Steering?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I have read nearly every review and to do one better Ive actually driven the car. I will agree its not AS good as a previous GT3, but it is damn close! It picks up 95%+ of what the previous 911s had, and at 95% of a previous 911 means its still the best out there, bar none.

If you drove the new 911 and you didnt know it was electric steering, youd never notice. So yes, it is like hydraulic.

Automobile:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...e/viewall.html

"Oh, the steering is perfectly accurate, and its weighting is just like old 911's. Driven in anger, it starts to transmit information about the road surface..."

Edmunds
"The new electromechanical power steering isn't perfect, but there's still plenty of magic in how a 911 bites into a corner.

Let's be clear. This is the best electric power steering ever installed in a production car. And as such, it sets a new standard that every other manufacturer will be chasing."

Or go watch the Chris Harris video where he flat out says it has GT3 levels of feedback and precision.


I could go find many others that say its still an amazing steering feel with precision and accuracy that few can even compare to.


You do realize the 911S was picked as the best driver's car over the likes of the Mclaren and aventador and many other great cars...all cars with hydraulic racks...and as such steering precision/feel is a big part of being a driver's car. That should tell you something. The car is still a scalpel and i doubt anyone will match them in electric steering for a long time and by then they will only have improved it that much more.

I'll take real world user reviews rather than what industry hacks constantly rag on. Honestly, the only two mags I care about are Evo and Car and they don't judge it harshly.

Thanks for your actual driving thoughts.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I'll take real world user reviews rather than what industry hacks constantly rag on. Honestly, the only two mags I care about are Evo and Car and they don't judge it harshly.

Thanks for your actual driving thoughts.

Its amazing how people like to talk and talk...go out and drive the freaking car and then come back and give your thoughts, but fact is, the electric system in the 991 is not AS good as what Porsche had before, but its gets so close. And considering how far ahead Porsche was to everyone else in terms of steering feel, the 991 is better than pretty much everything else with a hydraulic rack.
Again, if you didnt know before driving it, youd never know it was electric. Everyone is going electric anyway, so why not start early? And Ill repeat, no one will match them in electric steering for a long time and by then theyll be so far ahead as they always are people will be indefinitely playing catch up as the have for 50+ years with the 911 in general in terms of nearly every apsect of performance and handling.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by SedateMe

Mostly good news all around except for the "[we're] on a level with the competition" when asked about the weight of the M5 and M6. //M needs to go on a diet not a comparison chart.

Yes, they need to go on a diet (next gen).

[grnbean]

Audi is also moving towards EPS.

EPS is now in almost every 2013 model..including the RS5

it has been causing a headache for alot of 2013 S4 owners

I think one owner mentioned he had been pulled over for 'drunk driving' because the officer had thought he was swerving when he was actually trying to correct the steering direction for a prolonged period on while driving on the freeway.

i believe there has not been a permanent fix yet.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ng-Issues-2013

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by grnbean

Audi is also moving towards EPS.

EPS is now in almost every 2013 model..including the RS5

it has been causing a headache for alot of 2013 S4 owners

I think one owner mentioned he had been pulled over for 'drunk driving' because the officer had thought he was swerving when he was actually trying to correct the steering direction for a prolonged period on while driving on the freeway.

i believe there has not been a permanent fix yet.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ng-Issues-2013

Yup.. one of the reasons I hopped into a 13 m3 from my 13 s4. The steering was not enjoyable. It would "slip" at 12 oclock position for a second and it would drive me mad. Also when the wheel is turned, let's say taking an on ramp, it would feel notchy like a ratchet. They came out with a software update but my Vin did not fall into the recall notice.