F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

8x lbs is my nephew. I couldn't tell the difference between my nephew in the car and not in my 135i. I could with my dad at 140 lbs.

"Not great" is pretty much summing up my feelings. It's looking more and more like I'm going to wait (pun intended) on the M2 or look elsewhere.

Agreed... I had an obese cca hpde instructor once (I took one look at him and thought "there goes my brakes lol) but quite franking couldn't tell a tremendous difference with him in the car.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by swamp2

E90 M3:

3736 lb

• -45 lb (sunroof, as this is more apples to apples with the CF F80, this is 11 lb from the roof material and the balance from the sunroof and mecanism)
• -45 lb (convert it from DCT to MT, official figure)
• -XX lb (account for wheel+tire differences to BMW OEM 19" wheel - what wheels are those and what correction do we need here?)
• -YY lb ("full optioned" to get down to more lightly optioned - any estimates here?)

E90 M3 "apples to apples" weight compared to THIS F80 M3:

3646 lb (not yet with the XX or YY values!) vs. 3582

84 lb difference (at best). Oh well, lb, kg, who cares...

The 3300 lb stuff was PURE BS. Now the "80 kg lighter when comparably equipped) is also pure nonsense. Shame on you BMW, but I have been saying this for some time...

Let's get the XX and YY values better and really expose the fraud!

Details: (without driver)
3/4 tank of gas
No sunroof
Manual Transmission
"Speed Cloth" interior
idrive = yes
EDC dampers with tech package
18" wheels (square setup with 4 OE rear wheels/tires)
Macht Schnell 10mm spacers set on rear

= 3,611 lbs.

(Edit: fact he was square with 4 rear OE adds about 8.5 lbs.)

-------------------------------------------------------

Din Kerb weight for a CF roofed Euro M3 coupe is 3483lbs.
.
Din Kerb weight for a Sedan M3 is 3538lbs .

Din Kerb weight for a Euro Convertible M3 is 3990lbs .


Din = base car no options, wet filled with 90% full fuel tank.
Eu is Din + 68kg driver and 7kg luggage.

2009 model year source BMW.

------------------------------------------------------

The M-DCT 7-speed transmission weighs exactly: 185.188 lbs. (84 kg)

The 6-speed Manual transmission weighs exactly: 125.663 lbs. (57 kg)

Weight differential: 59.525 lbs. (27 kg)

Source: BMW ETK

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295896

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

It can't be repeated enough that it being bigger isn't a good thing , nor an excuse for being deceitful to say the least about the weight . My friends e92 M3 CP package with extended leather and DCT weighed 3600 lbs with a full tank of gas. We now know new M4 with the same options is 3585 ! Whoopdy do the same power and 15 whole pounds of weight savings . As my good friend just said this is like finding out Santa Claus wasn't real . Very disappointed M very disappointed, 3300 pounds my ass .

Exactly!

[ixse]

dont care really.. still want this car bad.. i know ill enjoy driving the shit out of it. 100lb off the mark is not a deal breaker. wait a month till all the track numbers come out, this will still bitchslap e9x either way. just gotta wait till this f30 lease is up..

[ASAP]

Everything aside, the massive increase in TQ will make this car feel much lighter than the e90/e92.

[TunedM2C]

Did they forget to remove all the test equipment out of the trunk of this prototype M3 before they weighed it?

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I think the reason myself and others are upset is that for the M4 DCT vs the E92 DCT the weights are essentially the same ~3600 pounds . I'm certain the new car will be an improvement in many areas , I know my F13 M6 is despite gaining weight vs the E63 M6 . The problem is BMW marketing has been spouting BS for the past year about starting the CF revolution , significant weight savings , etc . I certainly wouldn't jump out of an E92 if I still owned one for the F80 bc all the excitement I had for the car was the promise of better dynamics from significant weight loss . That simply hasn't occurred . Some of us are track enthusiasts and 300 lbs difference in weight really is that big of a deal in how a car feels .
My two cents

Agreed about the bs spouting portion, disappointed.

[seis-speed]

Why is it considered a good thing that the car grew, with minimal weight gain or even a loss. Instead, keep the car the same size and drastically reduce weight. If people want a larger sedan BMW has the M5 and M6GC.

[ManAndMachine]

80-100lbs weight savings is not enough incentive to trade in an e9xm3.

Now if it were around 200lbs...I'd give it hard thought,I'm keeping my high revving V8,no thanks! Just bought the car for 34K after a 3year balloon payment.No way this new car is worth the extra coin,haha!

[coloradoe92m3]

1. The engine is probably twice as underrated as weight loss overrated, so performance will still smash the e9x M3 bone stock.

2.e90 M3 which had no carbon roof and vast majority had sunroofs, compared to f80 which does have sunroof, is close to the stated 140 pound less. Add carbon brakes and your at 160. Of course this is best case scenario for f80 weight advantage but of course BMW would market the best case. Add dct and weight difference shrinks by 45. ( f80 dct 45 pounds heavier). Remove sunroof and drop another 40. So even with no cf roof, dct vs dct with no sunroof, difference is more realistically 80 pounds.

The m4 hasn't been weighed so we need to stop comparing f80 to e92 me.perhaps m4 is lighter? Given M3 and m4 have carbon roof, I suspect not but let's see. If M3 and m4 f80 end up weighing same at stated weight, then it really becomes of almost equal weight to an e92 M3 with cf roof and both cars dct. We are down to 50-60 difference. Again carbon brakes an option so best case is 100 pounds less manual vs manual for m4. Maybe less than BMW marketed but not far from what all suspected.
.for all intents and purposes, on average an e92 M3 weighs 50-60 pounds more and e90 M3 weighs 100-140 pounds more if you have a sunroof in e90 and a dct.

In terms of the goal being e46 weight, BMW nailed it. Does anyone realize the e46 weighs in st about 60-120pounds lighter than an e92 M3 depending on gearbox? Many threads on scales.

Conclusion. The f80 is about 50-120 pounds lighter than e9x M3 and roughly same as e46 M3 which had a sunroof.not so far off from BMW marketing.

People have erroneously thought e92 M3 was some drastically heavier pig than the e46 so it became a mission or do or die foe some less aware folks that f80 needed to weigh 200 pounds less.fact is the e92 was not much heavier than e46 and at 3550average, it is the lightest car by far in its class and only Porsche is lighter. The new c7 true weight is at 3580 and I don't see anyone on net calling Yvette heavy.

If you get f80 with ceramic brakes, you will have a nice 100 plus overall weight savings with 35 of that less rotating mass . ( cf drivrsfaft and brakes). Coupled with 400whp, this thing is going to rape stock e92.mission completed I say. I'm an e92 guy but most agree this car will put down 400 who stock

[MrCsquared]

Originally Posted by coloradoe92m3

1. The engine is probably twice as underrated as weight loss overrated, so performance will still smash the e9x M3 bone stock.

2.e90 M3 which had no carbon roof and vast majority had sunroofs, compared to f80 which does have sunroof, is close to the stated 140 pound less. Add carbon brakes and your at 160. Of course this is best case scenario for f80 weight advantage but of course BMW would market the best case. Add dct and weight difference shrinks by 45. ( f80 dct 45 pounds heavier). Remove sunroof and drop another 40. So even with no cf roof, dct vs dct with no sunroof, difference is more realistically 80 pounds.

The m4 hasn't been weighed so we need to stop comparing f80 to e92 me.perhaps m4 is lighter? Given M3 and m4 have carbon roof, I suspect not but let's see. If M3 and m4 f80 end up weighing same at stated weight, then it really becomes of almost equal weight to an e92 M3 with cf roof and both cars dct. We are down to 50-60 difference. Again carbon brakes an option so best case is 100 pounds less manual vs manual for m4. Maybe less than BMW marketed but not far from what all suspected.
.for all intents and purposes, on average an e92 M3 weighs 50-60 pounds more and e90 M3 weighs 100-140 pounds more if you have a sunroof in e90 and a dct.

In terms of the goal being e46 weight, BMW nailed it. Does anyone realize the e46 weighs in st about 60-120pounds lighter than an e92 M3 depending on gearbox? Many threads on scales.

Conclusion. The f80 is about 50-120 pounds lighter than e9x M3 and roughly same as e46 M3 which had a sunroof.not so far off from BMW marketing.

People have erroneously thought e92 M3 was some drastically heavier pig than the e46 so it became a mission or do or die foe some less aware folks that f80 needed to weigh 200 pounds less.fact is the e92 was not much heavier than e46 and at 3550average, it is the lightest car by far in its class and only Porsche is lighter. The new c7 true weight is at 3580 and I don't see anyone on net calling Yvette heavy.

If you get f80 with ceramic brakes, you will have a nice 100 plus overall weight savings with 35 of that less rotating mass . ( cf drivrsfaft and brakes). Coupled with 400whp, this thing is going to rape stock e92.mission completed I say. I'm an e92 guy but most agree this car will put down 400 who stock

Well said.

I have seen E9X's have a 200lb+ fluctuation in weight (seen some around 3500 and some 3700+), I'm sure it is the same for the F8X. However it will NOT be 3300lbs. Besides being upset that BMW spit out the 3300lb figure, why is everyone so bashful of the new car? It will be running laps around the older model... I'm saying this being someone who has the E9X Ms as one of my top 5 favourite cars of all time.

Sounds like a lot of justification for sticking with a now older model M3. The new model has been improved in every way possible. Can't wait for some reviews!

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

It can't be repeated enough that it being bigger isn't a good thing , nor an excuse for being deceitful to say the least about the weight . My friends e92 M3 CP package with extended leather and DCT weighed 3600 lbs with a full tank of gas. We now know new M4 with the same options is 3585 ! Whoopdy do the same power and 15 whole pounds of weight savings . As my good friend just said this is like finding out Santa Claus wasn't real . Very disappointed M very disappointed, 3300 pounds my ass .

Bolded portion is subjective, for myself and many others the new one is the perfect size.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I'm a bit dissapointed. An f30 335i mt is listed as weighing 3,545 on BMW's website; an f80 m3 is listed at 3,540 on the same website. That F30 is WITH a sunroof, no CF roof, no CF driveshaft, and no other weight saving efforts that have been done to the F80.

In addition, it's a frigging 3.0 liter turbocharged engine as well. Now that's a listed weight on both cars, but my question is this:

If they focused on weight savings, where did all the new weight come from COMPARED to the F30 335i? Chassis strengthening for rigidity and to handle the torque? Some weight of course is also added via the new cooling systems, the 2nd turbo, etc.

But the manual trans is fundamentally the same. The engine is extremely similar. It's the same size car, etc.

This isn't obvious? M cars are always a combination of weight gaining items and weight saving items. Weight savings is generally required to maintain design margins under higher loads without the use of exotic materials. The way this (and pretty well all) M is heavier than the base car are:

Subframes
Suspension/knuckle/steering arms
Brakes (not this time though with CSiC brakes)
Body bracing
Axles
Transmissions (MT to MT)
Struts (prob. very minor)
Engine (not sure, but very likely)
Differential (probable, not certain)
Wheels/tires (sometimes, but maybe not with runflats)

[RPiM5]

Dudes, bottom line is that BMW ///Marketing misled the world by a promise of a substantial drop in weight over the previous generation. I have no doubt the new F80 is going to be much faster than the E90. I mean by virtue of the Active M Differential I know this to be true. The F10 M5 is 400lbs heavier than the E60 M5 and look how bad the E60 loses in races.

I'm a disappointed fan but haven't lost faith. I'll start to lose faith if ///M carries over the same engine setup from one generation to the next like has been rumored with the next gen X5M.

We won't start to see the true benefits for M cars until the next generation M5. The F80 M3 is just the beginning. The next generation 7-Series has already been rumored to use extensive CFRP and aluminum and they want it to weight less than an F10. I'm pretty confident that the next G30 M5 will come in under 4,000lbs and the next M3/M4 will come in under 3,300lbs. We just have to wait for mass production of CFRP to catch up to production. The i8 offers a good glimpse of the future for M.

But yeah I won't be getting an M3/M4 now that I know it's really didn't drop a lot of weight after all.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Dudes, bottom line is that BMW ///Marketing misled the world by a promise of a substantial drop in weight over the previous generation. I have no doubt the new F80 is going to be much faster than the E90. I mean by virtue of the Active M Differential I know this to be true. The F10 M5 is 400lbs heavier than the E60 M5 and look how bad the E60 loses in races.

I'm a disappointed fan but haven't lost faith. I'll start to lose faith if ///M carries over the same engine setup from one generation to the next like has been rumored with the next gen X5M.

We won't start to see the true benefits for M cars until the next generation M5. The F80 M3 is just the beginning. The next generation 7-Series has already been rumored to use extensive CFRP and aluminum and they want it to weight less than an F10. I'm pretty confident that the next G30 M5 will come in under 4,000lbs and the next M3/M4 will come in under 3,300lbs. We just have to wait for mass production of CFRP to catch up to production. The i8 offers a good glimpse of the future for M.

But yeah I won't be getting an M3/M4 now that I know it's really didn't drop a lot of weight after all.

Even the i8 is kind of heavy. 3300 lbs even with all that CF…and thats BMW's "claimed" weight. Who knows this may end up being even more too. Either way, even with all that extensive use of CF, and the small footprint of the i8, its pretty heavy.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Thank you, another data point showing the E92 at around 3550 lbs with DCT almost 200 lbs below the E90 in this post. The weights in this post is way off IMO and useless. I put my trust in the EU numbers for now and disregard the weights in this post. Should the F80 weight turn out to be 3560 lbs I will not trust any numbers given as hp,tq,0-60,0-1000 etc. If true the power to weight is the same as the E90 as well. I don't think that's the case.

Swamp's car is a coupe (55lb) and had only a quarter tank of fuel (75lb). Also need to add the sunroof (33lb).
This explains 163lb of the 187lb difference, leaving only 24lb unexplained. Not that far off.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I don't remember any specific mention of 3300 lbs from BMW, but I do remember a lot of talk about the E46 M3 curb weight being the "target weight". I guess the use of the word "target" was a ...

Check "Official BMW M3 M4 Specs" here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746

Look under Weight where it says: "Under 3,306 lb (1500kg) weight" and just under that, they said "compare to E46 M3 at ~3,400 lb curb weight" implying the F80/82 weighs less.

Yes, sometimes marketing can stretch the truth with crafty or vague wording, but when you claim "official specs" at "under 3,306 lbs" that's quite specific and not vague. BMW set the expectation, thus the disappointment. They have some explaining to do.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have thought about this some more and I figure I made the same mistake in an earlier post in this thread. We need to compare sedan to sedan here. The CFRP roof on the F80 is a genuine savings that was not available on the E90, so we should not deduce it from the savings.

So from the sample in the OP:

3736lb (E90 DCT baseline) - 45lb (DCT) - 3562lb (F8X) = 129lb weight reduction on a 6MT sedan

However, if the F80 is "comparably equipped" with a sunroof, we are back to our original 84lb...

On the E9x M3 the carbon roof only saves 11 lbs vs a standard steel roof with no sunroof vs 44 lbs savings with sunroof.

So compare it to a E90 M3 with sunroof delete.

3736lb (E90 DCT baseline) - 45lb (DCT) - 33lb (sunroof delete) - 3562lb (F8X) = 96lb weight reduction on a 6MT sedan

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

On the E9x M3 the carbon roof only saves 11 lbs vs a standard steel roof with no sunroof.

Probably, but it is theoretical since such a car does not exist (steel roof without sunroof).

I am not sure where you are going with this statement?

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Probably, but it is theoretical since such a car does not exist (steel roof without sunroof).

I am not sure where you are going with this statement?

Yes there are E90 M3's with no sunroof.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Probably, but it is theoretical since such a car does not exist (steel roof without sunroof).

I am not sure where you are going with this statement?

Weight difference between F80 M3 and E90 M3 with 6-speed and sunroof delete is less than 100lb. Could be even less, with the other things swamp listed.

It is only fair to compare both cars without sunroofs.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Yes there are E90 M3's with no sunroof.

You are correct. I was confused with the E92. I deleted my post. It seems my original calculation (and Swamp's) was good after all .

EDIT: You are also correct it adding back the weight of the CFRP roof though. 96lb it is