Chris Harris F80 M3 review testing notes

[ASAP]

Here is the thing; I feel the standard e90 gen hydraulic steering while not the most precise provided unequal levels of enjoyment to any other car I've driven. No electric rack I've ever driven could replicate this enjoyment.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

Can you show me, where he say this ???

For me this sounds more like ... "you must controll the rear axis of the car better to be fast" ... what for him means more fun !?

Here:

Performance
Scorching. The manual will hit 100mph in nine seconds dead, the DCT in 8.7 seconds. It hardly feels turbocharged and the torque is all-consuming. Real-world, this car is miles quicker than the old E92, and the torque means the rear axle loads up much earlier in a given turn, meaning you have the sensation of controlling the car's attitude with your right foot far more than you did before.

[Kuwen]

I'm at a loss as to what the engine would need to do to be more special other than sound different? Power, speed, delivery, economy, usability, they're all there, nailing all those points seems pretty special to me.

If V8 sound is your number one criteria for a car then it makes a decision pretty straight forward.

[e39>all]

Logic and what limited info we have about the new m3/4 dictates that it should be slightly faster than the m5/6 to 60mph. The m5 has been tested at 3.7 seconds to 60 by at least one source, so one stands to reason given the same testing methods they used, 3.5-6 should be attained by someone. I don't think the .4 second gap quoted by BMW is accurate (should be much closer).

And certainly the 0-1000m times quoted by BMW can't be equal either. 21.9 to 1000m is very fast, equal to or faster than many exotics from 10-15 years ago. If the m3 stays within 1 second in 1000m to the m5, that is very impressive given the huge hp disadvantage. I'm too lazy to look but I believe someone mentioned that the best time for stock m5 to 1000m is 21.3 and I think uae's vbox has 22.0 to 1000m (I could be mistaken). I know that's "bus lengths brah" and yada yada, but I'm very pleased with all the info so far on the new m3's.

There may be some insane times in the coming weeks that are possibly skewed by tuned press cars, but many of m5's times allegedly also benefited from the same. In 6 months we should have enough real world data to have actual fun comparisons. But let's hold off on the concrete conclusions until there is more stuff out then just 1 set of vbox screenshots from one owner.

The m5/6 will outrun the m3/4 after a certain point, it has loads more hp, it's common sense. I know there is a guy who jumps in every thread he possibly can to scream "11.6 1/4 mile stock!!", but that's simply an anomaly. Congrats to him, he can put "11.6" on his tombstone cuz he wins the interwebs, but the majority of times for stock m5/6's have trouble breaking 12 seconds. I know it's driver dependent, many variables in play, but most of the times vary from like 11.7-12.3 from slips/times people have posted online. With the 11s seeming to be in the minority. IMHO, The new m3/4 should be roughly on par in the 1/4 if you poll a handful of times 6 months from now, or just take the same driver, same conditions/track/day etc and run them both. Either way if the m3 happens to be .1-.2 slower on average who cares. Pretty impressive considering another guy screaming in another thread that the m5 has 200 more hp in actuality lol.

The f10 m5 forum was basically the only one I kept up with on this site for over 2 years because I initially planned on getting the new m5 (haven't frequented much there in the last 6 months as I've gravitated towards this forum). But my excitement gradually faded over the size of the car, a few other aspects of the car, and the fact that I became more and more intrigued with the upcoming m3 as more pictures and info became available by the time the waiting lists for the m5 were gone. So I decided just to hold out and wait for the m3.

I've always considered myself an "m5 guy" and the f10 m5 is awesome, but I've just become more interested in her sexier, slimmer little sister and the direction she is going. The m5/6 guys clearly love their cars and enjoy them which is great, just as the m3/4 guys will enjoy their cars. But if the m5/6 guys feel their cars are clearly so superior, then there should be no need to try to point it out in every new thread that pops up regarding the m3. But it seems many don't care for "little brother" stepping on their toes in some performance categories ( and reality is that the new m3 will outperform the m5 in most real world situations). But who cares, at the end of the day it all comes down to what you like and enjoy. If I'm going to dump money into a depreciating luxury item that I don't really need, I'm gonna do it because I enjoy it, not for others sake. That's why I don't get the people trying to bash and bring the new m3/4 down....don't hate, congratulate! After 1 vbox post, the m5 piranhas couldn't wait to jump in with the "See! The m5 is faster! Bus lengths! M3 is nothing compared to mighty m5!"
Yes, if you want to go to airstrips and do roll races, the m5 will crush m3, it has tons more hp, that's the way longer races work....People can always spin arguments into parameters where they can justify their point, while ignoring parameters where they aren't necessarily "right".

M5/6 owners, and all BMW enthusiast should be thrilled with the new m3/4, every indication is that it is truly an impressive machine and a step forward in almost every direction. And that also means that the next generation m5 will be pushed that much further into greatness. Weight reduction, increased power and newer technologies in the next generation m5? I can't wait to see what they bring us next. And hopefully in 4-5 years I'll be settled down with a family and maybe return to my m5 roots

Hopefully this thread doesn't morph into something crazy again by the time I wake up lol. This is a fun and exciting time for BMW enthusiasts, so let's enjoy it and try to keep the trolling to a minimum and wait til the m3 is at least out of the womb for more than 2 minutes before we declare a BMW M champion.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

np, just wanted to make sure there weren't misunderstandings

Although to be fair he did mention the response was pretty special for a turbo engine.

And in his conclusion:

And I still think the powertrain feels special enough for an M car.

[signes]

Nice write-up, balanced and more nuanced than the BMW PR regurgitation from other outlets so far. Thanks for posting.

[ozinaldo]

Good read indeed, kind of a relief. Thanks for posting.

Short summary:

Wonderful car and seemingly worthy of new Alpha sports sedan/coupe crown like the old M3s

BUT, it is still not World's first 100% perfect car, such a surprise! Because:
- it is a big car!
- engineers tried but couldn't yet manage a revolution in steering 'feel' of electromechanical set up
- it is still a turbo car which means a minimum lag will always be there as long as you look for it and the throttle response is not as sharp as the best NA cars of the past
- sound is overall a let down, better from outside, controversial trickery from inside...reason for a first mod.

Personal conclusion: Better to put it next to 1M rather than in place of it but I am not that guy so with added practicality of the four door and sense of novelty I should not miss the 1M (too much!) once it is gone.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Boss330

And in his conclusion:

And I still think the powertrain feels special enough for an M car.

And he says it is special other places as well:

Would you?
Absolutely. I loved my E92, but it was surprisingly limited as my daily driver. Opportunities to enjoy that motor beyond 7,000 were predictably limited, the lack of torque left you exposed to turbo hot hatches and, well, you know my thoughts on the range.

This car rights all of those wrongs. In isolation, the motor gets blown into next week by the current C63 507 for pure noise and theatre, but on the road the BMW's fuel consumption and massive torque would swing it for me. Sounds boring, but that's what matters in a daily driver.Not to mention the transmission which makes the Merc's feel pretty antiquated now. And I still think the powertrain feels special enough for an M car.

The rest of the package is BMW M at its best. I think it's a truly special car. It made me smile for the two days that I drove it. When the video comes out in the next few weeks, watch the section where we talk through the level of modification over standard 3er. This car is 50 per cent new.

Does he now need to use the magic words "this car is very special" before we consider it a "good" or "positive" review? Is "truly special" no longer sufficient?

I mean, man, it was a dark, grey and cold winter for most of North America but cheer the #$!@#$ up dudes. This will be a great car.

[jackkk]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Good read indeed, kind of a relief. Thanks for posting.

Short summary:

Wonderful car and seemingly worthy of new Alpha sports sedan/coupe crown like the old M3s

BUT, it is still not World's first 100% perfect car, such a surprise! Because:
- it is a big car!
- engineers tried but couldn't yet manage a revolution in steering 'feel' of electromechanical set up
- it is still a turbo car which means a minimum lag will always be there as long as you look for it and the throttle response is not as sharp as the best NA cars of the past
- sound is overall a let down, better from outside, controversial trickery from inside...reason for a first mod.

Personal conclusion: Better to put it next to 1M rather than in place of it but I am not that guy so with added practicality of the four door and sense of novelty I should not miss the 1M (too much!) once it is gone.

Sold my 1M and waiting for the F80. As I drive the car everyday the F80 looks a better choice for me with the same level of performance of even better than my tuned 1M. I'd got the same 100-200 9.2 as uae247 had posted.
So it should be a nice car for everyday use and some time trackdaying.

[jc05e46m3]

Definitely getting me more excited. Can't wait to see the review video. Seems like an honest write-up so far.

ALSO, it's inevitable that an aftermarket solution will change the attitude of the exhaust for the better. That's a fact.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by e39>all

Logic and what limited info we have about the new m3/4 dictates that it should be slightly faster than the m5/6 to 60mph. The m5 has been tested at 3.7 seconds to 60 by at least one source, so one stands to reason given the same testing methods they used, 3.5-6 should be attained by someone. I don't think the .4 second gap quoted by BMW is accurate (should be much closer).

And certainly the 0-1000m times quoted by BMW can't be equal either. 21.9 to 1000m is very fast, equal to or faster than many exotics from 10-15 years ago. If the m3 stays within 1 second in 1000m to the m5, that is very impressive given the huge hp disadvantage. I'm too lazy to look but I believe someone mentioned that the best time for stock m5 to 1000m is 21.3 and I think uae's vbox has 22.0 to 1000m (I could be mistaken). I know that's "bus lengths brah" and yada yada, but I'm very pleased with all the info so far on the new m3's.

There may be some insane times in the coming weeks that are possibly skewed by tuned press cars, but many of m5's times allegedly also benefited from the same. In 6 months we should have enough real world data to have actual fun comparisons. But let's hold off on the concrete conclusions until there is more stuff out then just 1 set of vbox screenshots from one owner.

The m5/6 will outrun the m3/4 after a certain point, it has loads more hp, it's common sense. I know there is a guy who jumps in every thread he possibly can to scream "11.6 1/4 mile stock!!", but that's simply an anomaly. Congrats to him, he can put "11.6" on his tombstone cuz he wins the interwebs, but the majority of times for stock m5/6's have trouble breaking 12 seconds. I know it's driver dependent, many variables in play, but most of the times vary from like 11.7-12.3 from slips/times people have posted online. With the 11s seeming to be in the minority. IMHO, The new m3/4 should be roughly on par in the 1/4 if you poll a handful of times 6 months from now, or just take the same driver, same conditions/track/day etc and run them both. Either way if the m3 happens to be .1-.2 slower on average who cares. Pretty impressive considering another guy screaming in another thread that the m5 has 200 more hp in actuality lol.

The f10 m5 forum was basically the only one I kept up with on this site for over 2 years because I initially planned on getting the new m5 (haven't frequented much there in the last 6 months as I've gravitated towards this forum). But my excitement gradually faded over the size of the car, a few other aspects of the car, and the fact that I became more and more intrigued with the upcoming m3 as more pictures and info became available by the time the waiting lists for the m5 were gone. So I decided just to hold out and wait for the m3.

I've always considered myself an "m5 guy" and the f10 m5 is awesome, but I've just become more interested in her sexier, slimmer little sister and the direction she is going. The m5/6 guys clearly love their cars and enjoy them which is great, just as the m3/4 guys will enjoy their cars. But if the m5/6 guys feel their cars are clearly so superior, then there should be no need to try to point it out in every new thread that pops up regarding the m3. But it seems many don't care for "little brother" stepping on their toes in some performance categories ( and reality is that the new m3 will outperform the m5 in most real world situations). But who cares, at the end of the day it all comes down to what you like and enjoy. If I'm going to dump money into a depreciating luxury item that I don't really need, I'm gonna do it because I enjoy it, not for others sake. That's why I don't get the people trying to bash and bring the new m3/4 down....don't hate, congratulate! After 1 vbox post, the m5 piranhas couldn't wait to jump in with the "See! The m5 is faster! Bus lengths! M3 is nothing compared to mighty m5!"
Yes, if you want to go to airstrips and do roll races, the m5 will crush m3, it has tons more hp, that's the way longer races work....People can always spin arguments into parameters where they can justify their point, while ignoring parameters where they aren't necessarily "right".

M5/6 owners, and all BMW enthusiast should be thrilled with the new m3/4, every indication is that it is truly an impressive machine and a step forward in almost every direction. And that also means that the next generation m5 will be pushed that much further into greatness. Weight reduction, increased power and newer technologies in the next generation m5? I can't wait to see what they bring us next. And hopefully in 4-5 years I'll be settled down with a family and maybe return to my m5 roots

Hopefully this thread doesn't morph into something crazy again by the time I wake up lol. This is a fun and exciting time for BMW enthusiasts, so let's enjoy it and try to keep the trolling to a minimum and wait til the m3 is at least out of the womb for more than 2 minutes before we declare a BMW M champion.

Well said. I can't believe how many fragile egos are amongst us. They are all amazing machines, period.

[JoeFromPA]

What this review taught me:

1. Great review. Amazing vehicle. An experienced test driver with a 1M thinks it's special and didn't complain about any performance aspects. Awesome.

2. People on this forum who have staked claims against the F80 appear to have reading comprehension issues with this review.

3. I'm no longer concerned about the steering at all. It's obvious from all the reviews that they hit the e9x level of steering, which was never that impressive anyway but was good enough.

4. The car is not impressive sounding. Luckily, sound is the easiest thing to address.

5. I'm curious how much you can tailor the steering & throttle response to a custom setting. I don't have a good feel for this. Sounds like I might enjoy comfort-level of steering assist but sport level of throttle response. Damn adjustable settings.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

What a great pre-review by Chris Harris. My favorite thing he said is above. The CCB's really make a great difference. I'm sure the video is going to be awesome.


)

that is not what he said. he said he liked them. he didn't test the steel brakes, so no one knows how they will perform in comparison

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Even though this was a very positive review, he still left in some things for the E9x brigade to justify their dislike for the F8x

It isn't dislike. It just is a different car now, nothing wrong with that . Making the car more livable as a daily driver, better emissions, better mpg...is not what I was looking for. This car is perfect for a lot of people. But this quote really brings it home for me: "Is the motor special enough? For a quick track blast and a few hours on the road, to impress a few hacks? Probably not, especially in light of the deranged V8 model's zap and DTM blare beyond 7,500rpm. But for everyday use, the torque, the sheer speed and the range make the new gizzards - for me - far more appealing." I guess you can call me one of the hacks, because I attend a lot of track days through out the year. I gladly give up some daily driver ease of driving, for a more engaging and rewarding drive on the track. To be honest the new F8x are going to be really good cars, just with a slightly different audience.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

5. I'm curious how much you can tailor the steering & throttle response to a custom setting. I don't have a good feel for this. Sounds like I might enjoy comfort-level of steering assist but sport level of throttle response. Damn adjustable settings.

Every parameter (engine, dampers, steering) can be independtly adjusted via the buttons next to the shift lever. You can customize as much as you want

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by AMPowerJ

How did you come up with numb steering from that review? Never once said anything like that. He actually would lead you to believe the steering on the E9x M3 was more numb than the new car. He said you could put the car exactly where you want it. You can't do that with numb steering.

Yeah he never mentioned numb steering.

[Sedan_Clan]

So for all of those waiting on Harris to offer his critique before ordering a car, there you have it. He likes it!

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Here is the thing; I feel the standard e90 gen hydraulic steering while not the most precise provided unequal levels of enjoyment to any other car I've driven. No electric rack I've ever driven could replicate this enjoyment.

I agree completely, I completely agree with Chris Harris about the E90 M3's steering. Servotronic is to blame (in my mind) for the slightly odd feeling off-center and the fact that the steering transitions from light to heavy resistance a little oddly. Both my 135i and 335is had better steering consistency and firmness (meaning the level of resistance stays the same through the wheel's entire motion) than my M3, the 135i with M3 control arms and bushings was on a different planet and I truly miss the way that thing steered.

If he's saying the chassis/steering package is "M at its finest" then I am truly excited to drive the F80 and a little scared because I know I will want one.

[M3_WC]

Only one consistent gripe from all the reviews and that is sound. They keep mentioning diesel, which is troubling. But surely that can be addressed through aftermarket.

[Cuz5150]

In before.......................................
Where is the Video?

[FogCityM3]

Great balanced review..finally (also lets not forget he owned the old one)! No question the M3/4 is quick and a torquier daily solution, but I've always loved the bi-polar personality of the E9x and how it was really two different cars. Even the most anti-E9x reviews out there concede that above 7k RPM the experience of the E9x is so raw and race-like and gratifying....really is unmatched in the category.

[IEDEI]

look forward to the video....

like Chris Harris....the engine in this car excites me more than almost anything else. Never really cared for the V8 in the E9X....but the new S55 is exciting.