Drove a base 991.2 PDK

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

The reason those are successful is partly because they're dirt cheap. Additionally, hard to gauge for many other reason which doesn't make it the best way to gauge.

The 911 is a far better drivers car than anything BMW makes, hands down. Not even anything I'd call close by comparison. I think you're in the overwhelmingly minority for that. I also don't think it heavily relies on electronics at all...at least not any more than any other car. Can't agree at all with you.

Have you owned a 911 or currently own one?

Porsches are overrated, dont take my word. Go to a track event.

I like em bc of they're an oddity, not bad handling cars but i prefer a 50/50 mid engine over a rear engine.

i like the handling of a long nose mid engine car, like a S2000, E36 M3 etc. saying one handles better than the other is silly.

It's a personal preference!

[The Choosey begger]

The 911 GT3 RS with all the fancy electronics,torque vectoring plus, PDK, rear wheel steer still cant beat a manual Z06.

Some would tell, they have better braking, faster corner entry/exit speeds, dont think so,the numbers dont lie.

Mid engine > rear engine.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by anglo

Porsches are overrated, dont take my word. Go to a track event.

I like em bc of they're an oddity, not bad handling cars but i prefer a 50/50 mid engine over a rear engine.

i like the handling of a long nose mid engine car, like a S2000, E36 M3 etc. saying one handles better than the other is silly.

It's a personal preference!

I have a 911 and don't find anything overrated...if at all underrated. And I do track and only found it more supremely worth it.

Most any rear mid engines cars also have rear weight bias. Go look at the weight distribution of a 458/488, Huracan/Aventador, Lotus Exige/Elise, are all around low 40s front and high 50s, low 60s rear. 50/50 is not ideal for handling, rear bias is. Again, cars move and once moving that balance is preferred. Go look also at the fact that the M3 used to be rear weight bias in real racing which tells you the 50/50 thing isn't ideal. Only ideal for novices.

I'll personally take the Porsche handling any day because it will be st the top of the list no matter who else is involved.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I have a 911 and don't find anything overrated...if at all underrated. And I do track and only found it more supremely worth it.

Mid engines cars also have rear weight bias. Go look at the weight distribution of a 458, Huracan, etc. All rear weight biased. 50/50 is not ideal for handling, rear bias is. Again, cars move and once moving that balance is preferred. Go look also at the fact that the M3 used to be rear weight bias in real racing which tells you the 50/50 thing isn't ideal. Only ideal for novices.

I'll personally take the Porsche handling any day because it will be st the top of the list no matter who else is involved.

Not arguing that, we're talking about the rear engine, short wheel base 911 that derived from the VW beetle layout!
I like the E30 M3 formula better.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by anglo

Not arguing that, we're talking about the rear engine, short wheel base 911 that derived from the VW beetle layout!
I like the E30 M3 formula better.

It sounded that way. Thanks for clarifying.

I prefer the 911 formula. Historically, it's hard to argue with the best race car and manufacturer in history. Plus if Porsche got it so wrong and everyone else so right, what is the excuse for getting beaten so badly for 50 years running?

I'd hardly call the 911 a short wheelbase anymore nor anything like a beetle either. The short ones did start Porsche's utter dominance in racing though

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I have a 911 and don't find anything overrated...if at all underrated. And I do track and only found it more supremely worth it.

Most any rear mid engines cars also have rear weight bias. Go look at the weight distribution of a 458/488, Huracan/Aventador, Lotus Exige/Elise, are all around low 40s front and high 50s, low 60s rear. 50/50 is not ideal for handling, rear bias is. Again, cars move and once moving that balance is preferred. Go look also at the fact that the M3 used to be rear weight bias in real racing which tells you the 50/50 thing isn't ideal. Only ideal for novices.

I'll personally take the Porsche handling any day because it will be st the top of the list no matter who else is involved.

For the millionth time, you seem overly proud of the fact a two (useable) seat 100k sports car can out handle a 60k sedan. How dare BMW offer a useable backseat and trunk in a daily driver! Given all this,I'd hope the weight distribution is more ideal on the 911... but 50/50 is a lot better than a 60-40 on Audi RS models.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I have a 911 and don't find anything overrated...if at all underrated. And I do track and only found it more supremely worth it.

I very very much doubt this.

Why don't you post a couple of track videos in the relevant sub forum to shut everyone up once and for all.

Tracking from your tablet doesn't count.

[adc]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Porsche tuned their turbo engines to be more linear. I only have had experience with the 3.6 liter v6 turbo on the cayenne gts, it is clearly intentional.

Not many engines have the initial kick of a s55, which is why we can break traction on 3-4 gear on a cold day. Porsche values the smoothness and I actually like it a lot.

It's not just that, there was more lag in the low and mid ranges, and worse throttle response. Only time I felt the throttle response was superb was around or over 6k RPM.

I'll have to go drive a Coupe as well if I can find a dealer with little BS. See if second impressions match the first ones.

[py0413]

OP, thanks for sharing yours thoughts.

I have a .2 base 7MT w/ nearly 10000km on it since 09/16. Using it on daily basis as long as weather permits or without needing to carry extra passengers. I live in a somewhat suburban area and 7MT just makes perfect sense for me. It's more fun and more engaging. When I track it, it's definitely not as fast as PDK equipped 911s, but I'm not after winning a race or anything, so again I really enjoy having to work with a manual tranny.

Overall the 991 generation is a sports car much easier to live with. However, giving it another chance, I would never choose to sell my 997.2 C2 6MT. Every 911 is unique in its own way imo.

^ this would be something I'd love to add to my garage one day.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Carl L

For the millionth time, you seem overly proud of the fact a two (useable) seat 100k sports car can out handle a 60k sedan. How dare BMW offer a useable backseat and trunk in a daily driver! Given all this,I'd hope the weight distribution is more ideal on the 911... but 50/50 is a lot better than a 60-40 on Audi RS models.

Not a fan of front loaded weight distribution. I'd take the slightly front biased M3/4 over the 60/40 of Audi any day.

The M3/4 handle well agnostic of cost, but there a number of other cars even cheaper and as practical that handle as well or better.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by adc

It's not just that, there was more lag in the low and mid ranges, and worse throttle response. Only time I felt the throttle response was superb was around or over 6k RPM.

I'll have to go drive a Coupe as well if I can find a dealer with little BS. See if second impressions match the first ones.

Don't share that opinion in my drives. Neither match the N/A response, but I thought it had much better response and it's anti-lag tech seemed more advanced in the 911. They tuned the car for linear response and for power as you wind out (bigger turbos) instead of falling off ~5k like the M3/4 do. It may not have the instant tire smoking shove the M3/4 have due to lower boost at that point (and more traction). I prefer that approach. It also works quite well in the new 488/Cali T.

How was the car optioned? It was a Cabrio, right?

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by py0413

OP, thanks for sharing yours thoughts.

I have a .2 base 7MT w/ nearly 10000km on it since 09/16. Using it on daily basis as long as weather permits or without needing to carry extra passengers. I live in a somewhat suburban area and 7MT just makes perfect sense for me. It's more fun and more engaging. When I track it, it's definitely not as fast as PDK equipped 911s, but I'm not after winning a race or anything, so again I really enjoy having to work with a manual tranny.

Overall the 991 generation is a sports car much easier to live with. However, giving it another chance, I would never choose to sell my 997.2 C2 6MT. Every 911 is unique in its own way imo.

^ this would be something I'd love to add to my garage one day.

Wow, that video is classic. Pure motoring experience, I envy it.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by socalbreeze

THIS


I don't use my 991.1 as a daily but everytime I drive it I'm grinning end to end. The emotions you get from driving a 911 is priceless and you owe it to yourself by owning one of these in this lifetime if you can afford it.

Well, I took this advice. Part of the reason I flip through cars rather quickly is to get the opportunity, chance, experience different cars. Now is a great time to try a 991 as 1) I LOVE N/A cars 2) I live in Nashville where the roads are smooth, winding, and some of the best driving rounds in the country accessible 3) after 15 years of M cars try out a different brand.

[Damage Inc]

Well I did get the 911 the other day. Its quite a friggin machine. Its just so focused on the driving experience, focused on the driver. The term engineering excellence and precision come to mind while driving it.

I'm really looking forward to learning about 911's, learning how to drive this beast. Its part of the journey, buy and try different sport cars. How fortunate we all are. Reminds me of how much I miss a N/A motor.

Mine is a 14 911 Carrera 4S PDK Chrono Sport Exhaust SPASM plus many other goodies - pretty loaded up 11k miles.

The S w/PSE was a must have for me. Turned out I was able to pick up a 4S as the same cost as some nice S so worked out good. The 4S is even more rare so I get the fat rear plus strong resale value down the road. Its really hard to find a 911 base w / PSE so it made it easier to just go the S route. Plus 50 more HP, PASM, stronger resale, and other goodies justified the extra $$$.

Back to the original question on "value". The ownership experience is not something you can easily quantify for guys like us as we put value on the experience. And its not something that shows up on paper via HP and lap times. Just like you can make the argument that a Camaro SS is a better value than an M3, you can make the argument the M3 is a better value than a 911. I got past that, went out and found a kick ass lightly used one at a great price - and will enjoy the crap out of it.

[py0413]

Originally Posted by MojorisinM3

Well I did get the 911 the other day. Its quite a friggin machine. Its just so focused on the driving experience, focused on the driver. The term engineering excellence and precision come to mind while driving it.

I'm really looking forward to learning about 911's, learning how to drive this beast. Its part of the journey, buy and try different sport cars. How fortunate we all are. Reminds me of how much I miss a N/A motor.

Mine is a 14 911 Carrera 4S PDK Chrono Sport Exhaust SPASM plus many other goodies - pretty loaded up 11k miles.

The S w/PSE was a must have for me. Turned out I was able to pick up a 4S as the same cost as some nice S so worked out good. The 4S is even more rare so I get the fat rear plus strong resale value down the road. Its really hard to find a 911 base w / PSE so it made it easier to just go the S route. Plus 50 more HP, PASM, stronger resale, and other goodies justified the extra $$$.

Back to the original question on "value". The ownership experience is not something you can easily quantify for guys like us as we put value on the experience. And its not something that shows up on paper via HP and lap times. Just like you can make the argument that a Camaro SS is a better value than an M3, you can make the argument the M3 is a better value than a 911. I got past that, went out and found a kick ass lightly used one at a great price - and will enjoy the crap out of it.

She's a beauty! Congratulations.

[VanosKickedInYo]

There is no arguing that the 911 platform is simply a superior platform than the F8x's...

Of course the F8x's are a better daily with functional rear seats... One is a sports car and the other is a sports sedan with track capabilities. These cars are meant to handle and behave quite differently.