My Comprehensive Review of M3/M4 - High Definition Pictures/FAQ Included

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RealStig

I did the math for my own case with buying out my car after my lease ends, including tires, maintenance, warranty, and payment, I actually end up paying $200 more a month now for another 5 years. If I financed the car initially maybe not such a big deal and I agree maybe this case is a bit extreme as in my time I got extremely good residuals (64%), but again i was talking about my own situation. It will take me at least 1.5 years to build any equity in the car and after 8 full years of ownership (and no warranty), the car will be worth 25-30k. Yes if I wait that long, It wont be more expensive, but if I wait for another year or two, I'll be flat if I sell the car and get into a new M3.

The problem with leasing is this, you have to keep leasing cars.

I was merely pointing out that your "facts" on ownership length for US vs UK was not only inaccurate, it was exactly the opposite of what you claimed... And when you post stuff like that you come across as someone who thinks that you know better about ownership in Europe than we do ourselves... As well as implying that in Europe we aren't as well off and have to keep our cars longer... Which would have been unpolite to say if it was true and just ridiculous when in fact it seems to be just the opposite that is the case!!!

Stop posting stuff that goes against readily available facts, and you won't be corrected all the time

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I was merely pointing out that your "facts" on ownership length for US vs UK was not only inaccurate, it was exactly the opposite of what you claimed... And when you post stuff like that you come across as someone who thinks that you know better about ownership in Europe than we do ourselves... As well as implying that in Europe we aren't as well off and have to keep our cars longer... Which would have been unpolite to say if it was true and just ridiculous when in fact it seems to be just the opposite that is the case!!!

Stop posting stuff that goes against readily available facts, and you won't be corrected all the time

Well said!

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RealStig

That sucks, I'd be pissed if they didnt let me in the car after paying for tickets and driving for an hour and a half to Philadelphia. Didnt you ask someone to let you in? Maybe they forgot to unlock the cars

he didn't bring his ///M hat.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

he didn't bring his ///M hat.

I'm pretty sure they forgot it locked, I highly doubt they'll do it intentionally.

[MKE_M3]

Originally Posted by RealStig

That sucks, I'd be pissed if they didnt let me in the car after paying for tickets and driving for an hour and a half to Philadelphia. Didnt you ask someone to let you in? Maybe they forgot to unlock the cars

I definitely asked, a couple of people at that. I was a little pissed, but it seemed like at the Chicago Auto Show they keep getting more and more conservative about it. The Mercedes area had about 10 cars that you couldn't sit in.

Originally Posted by pkim1079

he didn't bring his ///M hat.

Well... I was actually wearing my ///M shirt

On the bright side, I got to LOL at this in the parking lot...

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by MKE_M3

I definitely asked, a couple of people at that. I was a little pissed, but it seemed like at the Chicago Auto Show they keep getting more and more conservative about it. The Mercedes area had about 10 cars that you couldn't sit in.



Well... I was actually wearing my ///M shirt

On the bright side, I got to LOL at this in the parking lot...

In Philadelphia Auto show there were so many people who brought there little kids to the show (which is fine, I brought my daughter as well) but they'd go completely crazy with the cars. Trying to sit in the trunk, step on the back seat to get up to touch the moon roof. All of this happened in M3. I was amazed that the car remained unlocked. My first reaction when I saw the car and the people around it was "oh god, they are going to lock these in a matter of minutes, let me take my pictures before it's too late!".

On that note, the M4 in our auto show was locked, but I heard it wasn't because of this reason. Apparently it was too much of a "pre-production" model that wasn't ready to be seen.

[TonyUF]

Thanks for the informative post.

I see pictures with both blue and yellow calipers from various sources. I’m trying to understand the correlation, does it have to do with the ceramic break option?

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by TonyUF

Thanks for the informative post.

I see pictures with both blue and yellow calipers from various sources. I’m trying to understand the correlation, does it have to do with the ceramic break option?

Yes, gold are carbon ceramics, blue are steel. Some posers will probably repaint.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by RealStig

I wasnt necessarily talking about leg room. Yes there is probably 1-2 finger lengths more leg room. I was talking about still feeling cramped up in a small car or being just uncomfortable. My biggest gripe is the fact that i cant have 4 adults in the car without hearing them complain. You always feel claustrophobic. Maybe its the seats themselves and their angle or the overall cushion they provide.

An inche extra leg room is meaningless to me. I or anyone who sat in my car never complained about the leg room in the first place. I'm 5'11" and my wife is 5'10" so there was never lack of leg room anywhere in the car to begin with. My point is, the seats, especially the backseats, dont feel any different in terms of comfort and support. They are still 3 series seats, they are not like the old 5 series seats, totally different.

There are plenty of BMW offerings with big comfortable back seats. I don't think that was a huge priority for the M3 redesign. It has a reasonable back seat that can certainly accommodate two adults or teen age kids when going out to dinner.

If you are looking for a big comfortable back seat the 5 series is nice, the 7 nicer. I currently have a '12 X5 fully loaded with comfort seats, full nappa leather and all the goodies. It is an extremely comfortable and luxurious car, in fact I would put it up against anything BMW has to offer in terms of comfort. It's big, open, has great visibility, sits high... very comfortable to live with. When I was getting out of my '08 M3, all I wanted was something "bigger".

The funny thing was in making the original transition from the M3 the X5 felt HUGE.... but after a couple of years is drives exceptionally well (checked all the handling packages, expensive but worth it) and it is very comfortable. Honestly i'm going to lease another one at the end of the year.

The new M3 should be an awesome performance car. I'm sure it will drive incredibly well, and it is definitely providing porsche 991 levels of performance at 2/3 the price while offering a usable back seat. I think the best and smartest way to drive the M3 is in its simplest form... maybe some 19's, the handling pack and full leather. Its not meant to be luxury. What you are paying for is performance. After spending 3 years driving one every day, I can tell you first hand you are getting a very different car than a normal run of the mill 3 series 335.

[RealStig]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

There are plenty of BMW offerings with big comfortable back seats. I don't think that was a huge priority for the M3 redesign. It has a reasonable back seat that can certainly accommodate two adults or teen age kids when going out to dinner.

If you are looking for a big comfortable back seat the 5 series is nice, the 7 nicer. I currently have a '12 X5 fully loaded with comfort seats, full nappa leather and all the goodies. It is an extremely comfortable and luxurious car, in fact I would put it up against anything BMW has to offer in terms of comfort. It's big, open, has great visibility, sits high... very comfortable to live with. When I was getting out of my '08 M3, all I wanted was something "bigger".

The funny thing was in making the original transition from the M3 the X5 felt HUGE.... but after a couple of years is drives exceptionally well (checked all the handling packages, expensive but worth it) and it is very comfortable. Honestly i'm going to lease another one at the end of the year.

The new M3 should be an awesome performance car. I'm sure it will drive incredibly well, and it is definitely providing porsche 991 levels of performance at 2/3 the price while offering a usable back seat. I think the best and smartest way to drive the M3 is in its simplest form... maybe some 19's, the handling pack and full leather. Its not meant to be luxury. What you are paying for is performance. After spending 3 years driving one every day, I can tell you first hand you are getting a very different car than a normal run of the mill 3 series 335.

This is all spot on, my comments you quoted were towards people saying how the new F30 (and just so that we are clear what I said is by no means specific to the F80 M3) is the size of the old 5 series and how there is so much more room in the car. I am well aware of what a sedan M3 entails and what it is being marketed to be. There may be however people who are thinking they are buying an M car that is the size of an old 5 series, hence they may think it is like driving one of the old M5s, it is not. It does not feel that way and it should not feel that way.

[PABrian]

Originally Posted by RealStig

In Philadelphia Auto show there were so many people who brought there little kids to the show (which is fine, I brought my daughter as well) but they'd go completely crazy with the cars. Trying to sit in the trunk, step on the back seat to get up to touch the moon roof. All of this happened in M3. I was amazed that the car remained unlocked. My first reaction when I saw the car and the people around it was "oh god, they are going to lock these in a matter of minutes, let me take my pictures before it's too late!".

On that note, the M4 in our auto show was locked, but I heard it wasn't because of this reason. Apparently it was too much of a "pre-production" model that wasn't ready to be seen.

First paragraph, total truth. Being that I work at a dealer, I jumped on the opportunity to work the auto show as much as I could. I was there open to close the first Sunday, noon to 5 Friday, and open to close the second Saturday (yup...13hrs...holy cow).

Technically, the M3 and M4 (and i3, of course) were never supposed to be unlocked at any time for the show, mainly because they were "pre-production" models. I couldn't really see any tell-tale signs of them being pre-prod. cars, but the people BMW employs to run the shows decided to have just the M3 unlocked the first two days of the show because of how popular it was. They did lock it around 6ish Sunday...not sure what difference that really made, but it is what it is.

For example, the X5 and 428 convertible were also pre-production cars. It was most evident on the X5 with all the shiny black plastic trim pieces in and around the trunk area and a couple of other spots. On both cars, in a few small spots you could see remnants of the camo vinyl they put on these cars before release.

As for the M4, as far as I could tell, it and the M3 were both at the same level of "pre-production" status, they just unlocked the M3 because it had four doors and people could more easily check out the back seats.

Saturday evening about 10mins before the auto show closed I was allowed to get in the M4, pop the hood, take pictures, and play around with it before everyone wanted to leave. I'll be throwing some pictures up a bit later, mainly showcasing how deep under the hood that bracing goes...

[JoeFromPA]

Brian - How long have you worked for Ottos? I heard they were hiring a "genius" but you are news to me!

[PABrian]

I have been doing this since October of 2012, but have only had the "Genius" title since September. It's a pretty fun job!

[Race_Doc11]

Both cars were locked later that day and stayed locked since however I went to the floor manager and I introduced myself and with a little help from my sales advisor who was there I got the M4 unlocked. They asked me if I need to see the M3 as well but I wasn't interested.

Originally Posted by RealStig

In Philadelphia Auto show there were so many people who brought there little kids to the show (which is fine, I brought my daughter as well) but they'd go completely crazy with the cars. Trying to sit in the trunk, step on the back seat to get up to touch the moon roof. All of this happened in M3. I was amazed that the car remained unlocked. My first reaction when I saw the car and the people around it was "oh god, they are going to lock these in a matter of minutes, let me take my pictures before it's too late!".

On that note, the M4 in our auto show was locked, but I heard it wasn't because of this reason. Apparently it was too much of a "pre-production" model that wasn't ready to be seen.

[PABrian]

Yeah they were good about opening the cars up to people who were truly interested, even the i3. If someone just came up to them asking to sit in the car, the answer was no. If a Client Advisor came to them explaining they have a good customer of theirs (or of the dealership) who is really interested in it, they'd be cool with opening it, but making sure that everyone and their children doesn't get in line to play with it.

First thing Sunday morning a very good customer of ours dropped by who is on our waiting list for both the M3 and M4 (can't decide which he wants...hah), wanting to check out the M4. No problem, let him in, I think one other guy checked it out, then it was locked.

Friday, I ended up talking to a guy and his friend about the i3 for a good 20 minutes, and when I went to ask if I could get the key to it, it wasn't a problem.

They just don't want everyone in them all the time partly because they're show cars and they don't want them worn a whole lot, but also because there might be bits and pieces here and there that are not 100% indicative of what the final road-going product will be like.

[JoeFromPA]

Hehehe, I'm an Ottos customer and BMW guy and the brusque attitude of the people during the week at least about letting me into the m3 was off-putting. I had no idea if they were employees of Ottos or not, but made me think worse of Ottos and BMW.

It was obvious I COULD get access if I made a fuss - they basically told me that.

Humorously, the roped off MacLaren area just involved me saying "Sir, I'd like to check out the Maserati's" before they unclipped the rope and shepherded me in.

[PABrian]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Hehehe, I'm an Ottos customer and BMW guy and the brusque attitude of the people during the week at least about letting me into the m3 was off-putting. I had no idea if they were employees of Ottos or not, but made me think worse of Ottos and BMW.

It was obvious I COULD get access if I made a fuss - they basically told me that.

Humorously, the roped off MacLaren area just involved me saying "Sir, I'd like to check out the Maserati's" before they unclipped the rope and shepherded me in.

Anyone with a name tag that just had a name on it was a BMW car show-specific person, not an employee of any dealership, and were the only people allowed to make the call to unlock a car. The rest of the people were employees from BMW dealerships all around the area. There were only a few of us Otto's people around, so no need to think less of us

For McLaren/Maserati, that area is run by RDS (McLaren Phila., Maserati Main Line, and Porsche Main Line), who are in my experience all really cool people, so I'm not too surprised!

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by OttosBMWBrian

Anyone with a name tag that just had a name on it was a BMW car show-specific person, not an employee of any dealership, and were the only people allowed to make the call to unlock a car. The rest of the people were employees from BMW dealerships all around the area. There were only a few of us Otto's people around, so no need to think less of us

For McLaren/Maserati, that area is run by RDS (McLaren Phila., Maserati Main Line, and Porsche Main Line), who are in my experience all really cool people, so I'm not too surprised!

Yup my experience with Porsche of the main line was awesome! Went once to test drive a cpo 997 a few years back and they were very accommodating even being as young as I am.. Real chill group.

[JoeFromPA]

Ottos did me wrong a year ago, and they have done me right since. Long story - short version is they've earned the right to continue to have my business. I won't think less of them for car show stuff; just joking

I haven't visited McLaren in West Chester, which is very close to me, but I've driven a vehicle at Main Line Porsche and was very pleasantly surprised at how accommodating they were.

[PABrian]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Ottos did me wrong a year ago, and they have done me right since. Long story - short version is they've earned the right to continue to have my business. I won't think less of them for car show stuff; just joking

I haven't visited McLaren in West Chester, which is very close to me, but I've driven a vehicle at Main Line Porsche and was very pleasantly surprised at how accommodating they were.

Fair enough

Definitely head over to McLaren. I've been there a few times and every time I've encountered very cool employees who were willing to entertain whatever questions I had or just let me check out what they have. Their pre-owned inventory is sometimes more impressive than their new cars...