Bought a used M4 sight unseen, and the dealer didn't disclose damage. UPDATED

[kiwistu]

Hi Memphisstylee

Nice car!

My story, I recently picked up a mint "barn find" 2013 E70 x5 for my wife 7 seats, etc etc agreed the deal, sweet, it was absolutely perfect but there was this vibration on idle, a buddy has the same truck so using a meter we measured it - it was out.

Showed the sales guy & service advisor, they agreed, they took into the shop. Nup can't fix it.

So I took the advice of my friend/indy BMW workshop owner, "yeah I can fix it - probably software or engine mounts".

So back to the dealer I go, I say probably software or engine mounts, yeah they said, but we still can't (read won't) fix it, however let's just give you you money back no problem at all and find you another one - all perfectly amicable.

So this leaves me with, do I a: walk away and try and find another unicorn X5 like this one? or B: suck it up and get my buddy to fix it? (the dealer wont pay they want to give me my money back)

Given my wife/kids love it and it was literally on the school run....I said to myself f**k it life is far too short - its a cool truck and I didn't want to restart the search...told the dealer I'm keeping it even though they didn't deliver to my expectations (with a smile) took it to my friend, who fixed it, I paid and I we've had it for 6 months and I am still super stoked with it.

Summary if you like the car, fix it yourself and get back to drinking beers or making money to buy a faster one! (and don't buy a car of whoever shafted you again!)

Cheers
stu

[Killed by Death]

Overkill but might give u more leverage. In NC it is a Felony to make a false representation for financial gain.

It's called "False Pretense" here, look it up.

Probably wouldn't fly but technically you could file a police report listing the salesman as a suspect because you paid money for an undamaged car. He and the dealer profited by making a false representation. You would have paid less or not bought the car at all if the damage had been disclosed.

Feel Me?

[ano0oj]

Originally Posted by M4_GTS

Look carefully, theres more damage than just the splitter. The bumper itself is cracked and missing pieces in a few spots, the corner lower flap is missing, also it seems like some parts of the under panel is missing.

This is a big deal OP...dealer dooped you into buying a car with a massive repair bill ahead!! Like this guy said, the bumper itself looks definitely cracked, and one of the first things I personally noticed was parts of the under panel looking wayyy off!!

What dealer sold you this car? I'd recommend taking it to a BMW dealer immediately and getting a real scope of the damage. I hope you have documentation of the dealership stating that the car is in pristine condition..

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Maybe I'm missing something. but you were clearly aware of the damage before purchasing and now you want to create a stink even though you knew the spiltter was damaged? Like is the first picture you posted from the website. Because I can see the damage on the spiltter. If these pics were omitted then disregard my post.

[memphisstylee]

Originally Posted by ChiTownM

Another way to look at it .... they are open to work with you and are looking for a shop to get it done. Just have them send you some money as a refund instead and use that money for a repair at a shop that you like, even if it costs more. It is not perfect but better than spending many more hours on this and being pissed.

This is what im pushing for at this point but theyre still resisting and would rather pay a 2nd rate shop directly than pay me that amount and allow me to go to a shop I know and trust.

Originally Posted by 666MorDeath

Overkill but might give u more leverage. In NC it is a Felony to make a false representation for financial gain.

It's called "False Pretense" here, look it up.

Probably wouldn't fly but technically you could file a police report listing the salesman as a suspect because you paid money for an undamaged car. He and the dealer profited by making a false representation. You would have paid less or not bought the car at all if the damage had been disclosed.

Feel Me?

Im already looking into this per my states laws considering they wouldnt budge on price since it was in "excellent" condition...

Originally Posted by ano0oj

This is a big deal OP...dealer dooped you into buying a car with a massive repair bill ahead!! Like this guy said, the bumper itself looks definitely cracked, and one of the first things I personally noticed was parts of the under panel looking wayyy off!!

What dealer sold you this car? I'd recommend taking it to a BMW dealer immediately and getting a real scope of the damage. I hope you have documentation of the dealership stating that the car is in pristine condition..

I took those two close up photos to actually show the damage. The one zoomed out photo is the only photo of the driver front they took for the ad. There were 36 photos in their ad and NOT ONE highlighted/zoomed in on any damage. Instead they focused on pieces that were in excellent condition which is part of the reason I feel duped and deceived. I dont want to disclose the dealers name just yet as we havent firmly concluded what the outcome will be. But if youre truly interested then PM me and we can discuss. Already had it inspected locally and its just the splitter/bumper that damaged. While I dont have black and white proof they said it was in excellent condition, the manager and salesman both verbally admitted otherwise. Granted that may not hold up if it went to court but whatever at this point.

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

Maybe I'm missing something. but you were clearly aware of the damage before purchasing and now you want to create a stink even though you knew the spiltter was damaged? Like is the first picture you posted from the website. Because I can see the damage on the spiltter. If these pics were omitted then disregard my post.

I was NOT clearly aware of any damage whatsoever at the time of sale. The zoomed out picture is one they posted on their ad and I asked specifically about damage to which they replied there was none. At that point I chalked it up to shitty lighting or reflections..

[mmmmQuattro]

It really sucks how some shady dealers do this crap on a $50k car.
It gives all deals a bad rep.

When I bought my M4 from a legit BMW dealer, sight unseen, there was one tiny scratch on the bonnet (you can call it a hood if you like, but it's still the bonnet) and they repainted the whole thing. They told me that before I signed that I would need to wait a week until their preferred body shop, who would do a quality job was available.

Hope that makes you feel better...

At least it's not on any major part of the car, it's just the splitter, which can be easily fixed - so let them fix it for you.

I recently bought a used splitter and it was supposed to be in excellent condition - they said 'you couldn't even tell it was ever fitted before' - but when it turned up, it was scratched to shit.
It only cost me $150 to have it repainted to look like new - so in some respects I got ripped off, but overall it wasn't a bad deal.

Ask yourself - if you had known would you have walked away from this deal?

[Killed by Death]

Happy the transporter bill of lading stated the damage was there! I'd feel sorry for the poor ba$tard if he didn't note it. BMW would have hung him out to dry

[Bimmer6]

Easy to fix, and have the dealer pay for it and it will not drive a car fax ...... this stuff happens on new cars at the ports on arrival and they don’t legally tell you and they don’t. They have repair shops at the ports. Good luck on your decision ......

[TonySCV]

If I had bought a used car, I would have inspected it before signing an as-is contract, regardless of what the seller claimed.

Buying an as-is used car sight unseen was the error here.

[Colinv6]

Wheels have also been refurbished as they seem to have made the usual mistake and not used tinted laquer on the lip and spoke faces.

[AWF10M5]

I saw his car back in the summer. How much did you end up paying?

Feeel free to PM me

[Falafel Combo]

Congrats on the Sakhir Orange M4 OP! She’s hot!

Why are you evading responsibility for buying a $45k car with your “hard earned money” sight unseen? Is there a point in this thread where you say “God damn it! I’m never buying an expensive sports car sight unseen again! My bad, lesson learned!”.

Did you really expect the dealership that sells hundreds of cars a month to inspect your car as carefully as you would have? You willingly outsourced the vehicle inspection and test drive to them, and sorry, also consent to accepting the consequences of that decision. You took a risk. It backfired. Now it’s their fault?

I am sure you would have had the upper hand in negotiating these repairs ... BEFORE you wired them $45k ... sight unseen, of course.

The good news for you is you got a great deal, as imperfect as it may be! And once this ordeal is over and your splitter is repaired/replaced, you’ll still be driving a smokin’ hot Sakhir Orange M4!!!!!

Silver lining? Think of how pissed you would have been if the damage was mechanical or if it drove like crap! Cosmetic damage and blemishes are hardly rare in second hand car sales.

Congrats again!

[Super Spartan]

I hear you OP and I would be pissed off if I were in your shoes but let's give it a positive spin here shall we? Imagine if you got it and after inspection it turned out that it has some major issue. Then you would be wasting your time with lawyers and whatnot. It's just a small cosmetic part, just tell yourself it was damaged during shipping and move one. Once all is done and you drive your car and realize how beautiful it is, this will all mean NADA

[Olivo]

OP, if it was from a BMW dealership (didn't see anywhere else if it was mentioned), I'd contact BMWNA before filing legal action. If anything, this makes BMW as a brand look bad, and they may be able to do something. As a salesman myself, I don't understand how someone could lie through their teeth and be okay with doing it. If he did it this time, he's done it before and will continue to do it.

[bringbacklsb]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

I hear you OP and I would be pissed off if I were in your shoes but let's give it a positive spin here shall we? Imagine if you got it and after inspection it turned out that it has some major issue. Then you would be wasting your time with lawyers and whatnot. It's just a small cosmetic part, just tell yourself it was damaged during shipping and move one. Once all is done and you drive your car and realize how beautiful it is, this will all mean NADA

But if they willfully covered up something so obvious, then what else are they not disclosing?

[IDBGOD]

Originally Posted by ano0oj

This is a big deal OP...dealer dooped you into buying a car with a massive repair bill ahead!! Like this guy said, the bumper itself looks definitely cracked, and one of the first things I personally noticed was parts of the under panel looking wayyy off!!

What dealer sold you this car? I'd recommend taking it to a BMW dealer immediately and getting a real scope of the damage. I hope you have documentation of the dealership stating that the car is in pristine condition..

I think "massive repair" is going a bit far. It's a used car. The damage in the grand scheme of the car itself is pretty minimal though the OP has every right to be pissed that it wasn't disclosed to him.

Worst case it's a new front bumper, respray, and 2 new splitters since usually they can't be removed easily and you'll need another pair for a new bumper.

This is why I'm always skeptical buying cars out of state/ without physically seeing them first. You rely solely on the dealer/car salesman being respectable and reputable, some of which are better or worse than others.

To the OP, best of luck with this. It's still a nice car and it seems you got it at a pretty good price as well. Don't let it kill the enjoyment over something that's a pretty small cosmetic in the overall scheme.

I also wouldn't start threatening legal recourse/ "I'm returning the car"...that gets you nowhere when you are trying to get someone to help you. Just handle it properly through the dealership who sold you the car. I'm sure they will sort it out.

[memphisstylee]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

It really sucks how some shady dealers do this crap on a $50k car.
It gives all deals a bad rep.

When I bought my M4 from a legit BMW dealer, sight unseen, there was one tiny scratch on the bonnet (you can call it a hood if you like, but it's still the bonnet) and they repainted the whole thing. They told me that before I signed that I would need to wait a week until their preferred body shop, who would do a quality job was available.

Hope that makes you feel better...

At least it's not on any major part of the car, it's just the splitter, which can be easily fixed - so let them fix it for you.

I recently bought a used splitter and it was supposed to be in excellent condition - they said 'you couldn't even tell it was ever fitted before' - but when it turned up, it was scratched to shit.
It only cost me $150 to have it repainted to look like new - so in some respects I got ripped off, but overall it wasn't a bad deal.

Ask yourself - if you had known would you have walked away from this deal?

Splitter and large crack in the bumper but youre right that its not the end of the world. No I wouldnt have walked away from the deal but I wouldve asked to be either compensated for the price of the damage or have it fixed prior to purchase.

Originally Posted by 666MorDeath

Happy the transporter bill of lading stated the damage was there! I'd feel sorry for the poor ba$tard if he didn't note it. BMW would have hung him out to dry

From my experience with this dealer they would have absolutely hung this guy out to dry!

Originally Posted by TonySCV

If I had bought a used car, I would have inspected it before signing an as-is contract, regardless of what the seller claimed.

Buying an as-is used car sight unseen was the error here.

Re read my original post. I had it inspected but this wasnt disclosed to me.

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Wheels have also been refurbished as they seem to have made the usual mistake and not used tinted laquer on the lip and spoke faces.

Are you sure? None of them show any signs of repair and ive compared them to another set locally.

Originally Posted by E63amg

I saw his car back in the summer. How much did you end up paying?

Feeel free to PM me

I dont mind telling you. I paid $45,200 pre-TTT. That price included their $478 dealer fee... Ill never deal with this dealer again even if they have the perfect car for the right price.

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Congrats on the Sakhir Orange M4 OP! She’s hot!

Why are you evading responsibility for buying a $45k car with your “hard earned money” sight unseen? Is there a point in this thread where you say “God damn it! I’m never buying an expensive sports car sight unseen again! My bad, lesson learned!”.

Did you really expect the dealership that sells hundreds of cars a month to inspect your car as carefully as you would have? You willingly outsourced the vehicle inspection and test drive to them, and sorry, also consent to accepting the consequences of that decision. You took a risk. It backfired. Now it’s their fault?

I am sure you would have had the upper hand in negotiating these repairs ... BEFORE you wired them $45k ... sight unseen, of course.

The good news for you is you got a great deal, as imperfect as it may be! And once this ordeal is over and your splitter is repaired/replaced, you’ll still be driving a smokin’ hot Sakhir Orange M4!!!!!

Silver lining? Think of how pissed you would have been if the damage was mechanical or if it drove like crap! Cosmetic damage and blemishes are hardly rare in second hand car sales.

Congrats again!

Im not evading responsibility and this isn't the first time ive bought sight unseen. And how am I avoiding responsibility? They blatantly lied about there not being any damage! I outsourced the inspection outside the dealer that sold it to me in case you missed that. And yes I absolutely feel its their fault for lying to me and trying to hide the damage! Not the mention theyve admitted they knew it was there and "forgot" to send me the pics of the damage that they didnt post in their for sale ad.

Originally Posted by AllRoadPerformance

Yes, when people buy things from other people, they expect it to be represented accurately, especially when dealing with a dealership. Not to mention, that damage doesn't take a "careful" inspection to notice. Judging by the pictures the OP posted, that damage would be easily visible just by walking around the car.

This ^^^^^ 100% Any person with even one working eye would be able to look at the front bumper or splitter and know its not supposed to be like that.

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

I hear you OP and I would be pissed off if I were in your shoes but let's give it a positive spin here shall we? Imagine if you got it and after inspection it turned out that it has some major issue. Then you would be wasting your time with lawyers and whatnot. It's just a small cosmetic part, just tell yourself it was damaged during shipping and move one. Once all is done and you drive your car and realize how beautiful it is, this will all mean NADA

Im still happy with the purchase and dont regret it at all! Just a shame that dealers like this exist and willingly hide damage. Couldve been a lot worse and I feel bad for others that im willing to bet theyve suckered even worse!

Originally Posted by Olivo

OP, if it was from a BMW dealership (didn't see anywhere else if it was mentioned), I'd contact BMWNA before filing legal action. If anything, this makes BMW as a brand look bad, and they may be able to do something. As a salesman myself, I don't understand how someone could lie through their teeth and be okay with doing it. If he did it this time, he's done it before and will continue to do it.

Wasnt purchased from a BMW dealer, some private dealer that ill disclose once everything is worked out(or isnt).

Originally Posted by bringbacklsb

But if they willfully covered up something so obvious, then what else are they not disclosing?

Kinda what I said in another response above.. glad I trust my local shops and myself to go through the car now that Ive got it. Plus ive still got some factory warranty left on it and 60 days 2500 miles through the dealer that sold it.

Originally Posted by IDBGOD

I think "massive repair" is going a bit far. It's a used car. The damage in the grand scheme of the car itself is pretty minimal though the OP has every right to be pissed that it wasn't disclosed to him.

Worst case it's a new front bumper, respray, and 2 new splitters since usually they can't be removed easily and you'll need another pair for a new bumper.

This is why I'm always skeptical buying cars out of state/ without physically seeing them first. You rely solely on the dealer/car salesman being respectable and reputable, some of which are better or worse than others.

To the OP, best of luck with this. It's still a nice car and it seems you got it at a pretty good price as well. Don't let it kill the enjoyment over something that's a pretty small cosmetic in the overall scheme.

I also wouldn't start threatening legal recourse/ "I'm returning the car"...that gets you nowhere when you are trying to get someone to help you. Just handle it properly through the dealership who sold you the car. I'm sure they will sort it out.

Agreed, buying the way I did is risky which is why I inquired about as much as I could plus had an inspection. Oh well, shit happens and life goes on. Im happy with the car and price I got it for. I havent threatened any legal recourse or sending the car back. Im still trying to work it out despite Eddie the manager avoiding me like the plague. and his pee-on, Jay isnt any easier to get ahold of or deal with.

[TTG]

Originally Posted by AllRoadPerformance

For everyone saying "It's not a big deal", I'll pose this question: if YOU had bought the car, spending your hard earned money on it, under the reasonable assumption there was no damage, and then you got the car to see the OEM CF and front bumper damaged, wouldn't YOU be pissed?

I'm willing to bet you would.

OP- as others have said, I would reach back out to the dealer and see if they will do the right thing and fix the car using the same quality parts. If not, I'd read the contract to see what recourse you have legally. If all else fails, you could always leave a poor review for the dealer and/or contact the BBB and file a complaint.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I would not wire $45K of my hard earned $$$ before seeing the car in person......period.

I have been buying and selling cars long enough to know better.

The way people define "mint", "good condition" & etc is way different than mine. Also the way some dealers do PPI is a complete joke as we can see in this case.

Only cars that I have bought sight unseen were my Euro Delivery cars.

At this point, if I were OP, I would take whatever $$$ dealer is giving me and take my car to a certified BMW show to get it fixed right.

[audioMeth]

i know it doesn't help now, but in the future you may want to hit the regional forum and ask someone to look at the car for you. i live in mass and would have made a trip for you depending on location. did you get this from Norwood?

[pz619]

Highly recommend you check out Steve Lehto's podcasts (Lemon Law/Auto lawyer) as he covers what is covered under "as is", warranties, and general used car purchases.

https://soundcloud.com/stevelehto

[memphisstylee]

Originally Posted by audioMeth

i know it doesn't help now, but in the future you may want to hit the regional forum and ask someone to look at the car for you. i live in mass and would have made a trip for you depending on location. did you get this from Norwood?

This thought had never crossed my mind despite being on various forums throughout the years.. But definitely keeping it in mind for the future!

Originally Posted by pz619

Highly recommend you check out Steve Lehto's podcasts (Lemon Law/Auto lawyer) as he covers what is covered under "as is", warranties, and general used car purchases.

https://soundcloud.com/stevelehto

Probably take a look into that after the holiday.

***Update***
Finally got to an agreement with the dealer! Despite absolutely refusing to do anything about the splitters, the dealer agreed to cut me a check for the small amount they were going to pay the shady shop to repair my car. Granted I would've loved to have everything fixed without coming out of pocket but I was tired of dealing with them and have better things to do with my time. My plan is to use the money towards a new splitter set and assess the bumper crack once the damaged splitter is off. Not sure if its against rules to post the dealers name but if it is then mods please remove it from this post. The dealer I dealt with was Automall Collection in Peabody, MA.

I also added the update to the original post.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by memphisstylee

This thought had never crossed my mind despite being on various forums throughout the years.. But definitely keeping it in mind for the future!



Probably take a look into that after the holiday.

***Update***
Finally got to an agreement with the dealer! Despite absolutely refusing to do anything about the splitters, the dealer agreed to cut me a check for the small amount they were going to pay the shady shop to repair my car. Granted I would've loved to have everything fixed without coming out of pocket but I was tired of dealing with them and have better things to do with my time. My plan is to use the money towards a new splitter set and assess the bumper crack once the damaged splitter is off. Not sure if its against rules to post the dealers name but if it is then mods please remove it from this post. The dealer I dealt with was Automall Collection in Dedham, MA.

I also added the update to the original post.

1 STAR 46 reviews nuff said