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      07-02-2014, 12:57 PM   #89
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Thanks for the review and updates. Between you and Racer, how can anyone NOT get the adaptive suspension??

And I'm surprised only half the cars were white
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      07-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
Between you and Racer, how can anyone NOT get the adaptive suspension??
Depends what your plans are with the car.
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      07-02-2014, 01:36 PM   #91
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I never would have known if it hadn't caught my belt by accident. I'll look for the page in the owner's manual this evening.
Awesome!! Now I just need my car back. The waiting already has been awful and it hasn't even been a long time
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      07-02-2014, 02:08 PM   #92
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Thank you for this review...yet another thing that confirms my decision to move up from my 335. Really appreciate all the inputs.
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      07-02-2014, 03:29 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
So one more thing I noticed on DCT when I was coaching. When I coach a new student on a track and they have DCT, I usually prefer to place it in auto or (D) mode so they can focus on the myriad other things that they need to develop. I find that students learning in an automated gearbox car have a faster learning curve than someone with a manual. So in one particular case at Spa we placed the student's M3 in D3 (most aggressive shifting mode). Now with this setting the car never wanted to shift unless it approached redline. It tended to pick lower gears in high rpm's and I think this program is more suitable to the S65 motor. On the S55 this makes the car behave very abruptly and not smooth...which is not good on a track going up eau rouge at triple digit speed. We switched to D2 shortly after and it seemed to be the correct setting conducive to learning while keeping the car very linear.

Good point about using S2 for a smooth DCT gearchange. I always used S2 on my F10 M5, because i felt S3 was too thumpy and violent, and actually upset the car for a nano second, but S2 was virtually as quick, but made for smoother and quicker progress.
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      07-02-2014, 05:47 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell
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Originally Posted by dawgdog View Post
Great review with substance. I share your love for the RS and pretty much was buying this car for the street, but now I am getting excited about tracking it as well. I ordered the passive suspension and believe I can still change. Have you compared? I was not fond of the adaptive suspension on the e92 and test drove a car with passive suspension and it was planted. But not a lot of money so if it is really better I would not hesitate to change my order. Thanks again for the excellent write up.
The adaptive suspension adjusts damping independently on each corner every 2.5ms using a variety of sensors. its also lighter than the standard steel shocks. where this comes into play the most is when you have something unexpected such as a slick area on a track, or you cross onto some smooth painted concrete. they say no lap is the same on the nordschleife. in a sense that case is true everywhere. this suspension had a lot of work put into it and feedback from DTM and F1 drivers. I wholeheartedly endorse them and i would wager its hard for any aftermarket company to come up with a suspension system that would show a tangible performance improvement over them without costing serious money and giving up the comfort for a street car.
So are you saying the M3 adaptive suspension system is lighter than the M3 passive suspension, or lighter than the standard F30 suspension?
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      07-02-2014, 07:53 PM   #95
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Nice review but it's hard to believe the M3 out accelerated a 997 Turbo in 3rd gear on the track. That is unless the 997 Turbo was in the wrong gear, not trying that hard, had a timid novice driver, or the M3 is underrated and actually has closer to 480-500hp. That said, it still sounds like a great car, and a great improvement over the E90 M3 I used to have.
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      07-02-2014, 08:47 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdoc View Post
... or the M3 is underrated and actually has closer to 480-500hp. That said, it still sounds like a great car, and a great improvement over the E90 M3 I used to have.
It's pretty clear by now that it is underrated, but closer to 460-480 hp. I also doubt the out accelerating the P-car, but I wasn't there and am willing to give the benefit of doubt. But it's clear that the M3/M4 its a great car and I can vouch that it is definitely an improvement in almost every way.


Cheers.
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      07-02-2014, 10:48 PM   #97
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Awesome notes. Thank you.

The thing with the HUD is that with a manual transmission, you always know which gear you're in because of how gears are physically positioned and the tactile feedback you're receiving into your body from the shifter. With DCT, it almost feels like one might be unsure about his current gear especially when you're already in 6th, braking hard and downshifting 3 gears. HUD gives you confidence that the transmission is downshifting properly at the speed you desire, without the risk of taking your eyes away off the road (at least for a non-pro driver -- I'm realizing being in 6th gear is kind of an unrealistic speed for anything else than the track).

Also, in mountain roads where there isn't enough visibility and your vision ends at the apex, you can't really look too far ahead. So HUD is conveniently positioned.

So for street driving, with DCT, I'd say HUD is a great feature. On a track with manual gearbox, maybe not so much.

What's your take on that please? Am I completely off here?

Last edited by kinimod; 07-02-2014 at 11:02 PM..
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      07-02-2014, 11:11 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by kinimod View Post
HUD gives you confidence that the transmission is downshifting properly at the speed you desire, without the risk of taking your eyes away off the road
The gear that is selected shows up in the instrument cluster. No problem with looking down a little. And it's even easier than for speed. I had an SMG transmission without the HUD and had no problems at all. HUD is not really needed. But it's cool and I want it.


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      07-02-2014, 11:14 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
It's pretty clear by now that it is underrated, but closer to 460-480 hp. I also doubt the out accelerating the P-car, but I wasn't there and am willing to give the benefit of doubt. But it's clear that the M3/M4 its a great car and I can vouch that it is definitely an improvement in almost every way.


Cheers.
All the dynos so far have put it in the high 420s, although a tuner has already jacked it up to 480... not sure how reliably, but there you go.
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      07-02-2014, 11:17 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
All the dynos so far have put it in the high 420s, although a tuner has already jacked it up to 480... not sure how reliably, but there you go.
I thought he was talking about engine power, not to the wheels. They're seeing 420 to the wheels, right?


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      07-02-2014, 11:31 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
I thought he was talking about engine power, not to the wheels. They're seeing 420 to the wheels, right?

Cheers.
If so, I stand corrected, and 460-480 crank is probably pretty accurate. Pretty sweet considering it took full bolt-ons and a solid tune to crack 400 at the wheel with the E92.

So an extra ~50-75 horses, ~50-75 lbs less weight averaging out strippers and loaded cars (not a huge amount, but considering people on here spend thousands to save a fraction of that, pretty damn good for a bigger car), then add proper brakes, solid subframe (which they finally learned on the GTS), improved suspension and chunkier tires, the car truly is as track ready as any car M has put out, so I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about. Sure, you can pretty much replicate or exceed most of this on the previous model with aftermarket stuff, but it's super nice to just get all that straight from the manufacturer. I love my E92 and I don't regret any of the modifications I made to it, but it was a bit aggravating to drop another 10-15 grand in mods after already spending 65. Then again, optioned out the new car hits 90K, so I guess you better get what you pay for.

Last edited by modkrazy; 07-02-2014 at 11:37 PM..
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      07-03-2014, 12:10 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdoc View Post
Nice review but it's hard to believe the M3 out accelerated a 997 Turbo in 3rd gear on the track. That is unless the 997 Turbo was in the wrong gear, not trying that hard, had a timid novice driver, or the M3 is underrated and actually has closer to 480-500hp. That said, it still sounds like a great car, and a great improvement over the E90 M3 I used to have.
Using some magazine racing I think the f82 M3 with a DCT compares very favorably in acceleration to a 997 turbo manua,l if you go by car and driver's test numbers. Especially the street start times and trap speeds.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003386

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-911-turbo.pdf
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      07-06-2014, 03:24 PM   #103
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How did the oem PSS tires hold up during the track days and trip?
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      07-07-2014, 07:07 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdoc View Post
Nice review but it's hard to believe the M3 out accelerated a 997 Turbo in 3rd gear on the track. That is unless the 997 Turbo was in the wrong gear, not trying that hard, had a timid novice driver, or the M3 is underrated and actually has closer to 480-500hp. That said, it still sounds like a great car, and a great improvement over the E90 M3 I used to have.
I know the 997.1 Turbo very well. Its a properly fast Porsche. no doubt. I believe the M4 is faster in that situation and no this wasn't a novice driver and I believe we were both trying our best. lol. btw from how the car shifted I believe it was a manual as well.
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      07-07-2014, 07:33 AM   #105
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Onefastdoc - By all accounts, the M3/M4 does make a bit more power AND has significantly less drivetrain loss than a 997.1 turbo. In-gear, rolling acceleration should out-accelerate the 997.1 turbo.

Also, they weigh about the same. Not really mysterious here to me?
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      07-07-2014, 07:34 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
The gear that is selected shows up in the instrument cluster. No problem with looking down a little. And it's even easier than for speed. I had an SMG transmission without the HUD and had no problems at all. HUD is not really needed. But it's cool and I want it.


Cheers.
On track at speed I have a lot of problems looking down. Going into a turn at
140+ mph it is not convenient to even glance down at the speedometer. In the e92 the numbers were small as well. Better on my Porsche but the main reason I ended up getting the executive package is the heads up display. Will make it very easy to benchmark speeds at certain locations without interrupting normal vision. Not bad to be sure of gear either if you select dct.
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      07-07-2014, 07:42 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkfighter View Post
Using some magazine racing I think the f82 M3 with a DCT compares very favorably in acceleration to a 997 turbo manua,l if you go by car and driver's test numbers. Especially the street start times and trap speeds.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003386

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-911-turbo.pdf
IIRC (I am really going off memory here) but the 997.1 turbo had some amazing acceleration times in large part due to it's amazing launch control + AWD + gearing selection. From a sheer power standpoint, it's about the same or very slightly less than the new M3/M4.

Which is amazing to me - that car had a twin turbo 3.6 liter engine using very cutting edge tech (variable turbines) AND had a top speed of around 198mph so it's aerodynamics are excellent too.

Nonetheless, if they are trapping the same, the numbers tell the story on outright power.
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      07-07-2014, 07:44 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinimod View Post
Awesome notes. Thank you.

The thing with the HUD is that with a manual transmission, you always know which gear you're in because of how gears are physically positioned and the tactile feedback you're receiving into your body from the shifter. With DCT, it almost feels like one might be unsure about his current gear especially when you're already in 6th, braking hard and downshifting 3 gears. HUD gives you confidence that the transmission is downshifting properly at the speed you desire, without the risk of taking your eyes away off the road (at least for a non-pro driver -- I'm realizing being in 6th gear is kind of an unrealistic speed for anything else than the track).

Also, in mountain roads where there isn't enough visibility and your vision ends at the apex, you can't really look too far ahead. So HUD is conveniently positioned.

So for street driving, with DCT, I'd say HUD is a great feature. On a track with manual gearbox, maybe not so much.

What's your take on that please? Am I completely off here?
To each their own. I just find it distracting and I ignore it anyways. I have owned and tracked SMG and DCT equipped cars. Never had an issue with knowing which gear I am in. street or track i recommend do your braking and shifting in straight line before turn-in point.

I need more time sitting in right seat with drivers using their HUD but I think they are less smooth because no matter how subtle it is their focus is diverted momentarily from driving to looking at the info flashing in front of them. its not connect the dots and every corner will be slightly different each time around.
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      07-07-2014, 07:52 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgdog View Post
On track at speed I have a lot of problems looking down. Going into a turn at
140+ mph it is not convenient to even glance down at the speedometer. In the e92 the numbers were small as well. Better on my Porsche but the main reason I ended up getting the executive package is the heads up display. Will make it very easy to benchmark speeds at certain locations without interrupting normal vision. Not bad to be sure of gear either if you select dct.
looking down is natural tendency. the hud won't change that unfortunately because you look down out of fear. there is a very easy solution in the RS. take your bottom cushion out. pull the foam out. replace with some tightly packed down from a pillow for some comfort. now you sit 2 inches lower and guess what you have to look up...no choice.

another trick we do in a clinic is tape up the bottom quarter of the windshield. stays that way entire day. talk about exciting! haha. best to do that in a wide open track like buttonwillow.
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      07-07-2014, 08:10 AM   #110
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Thanks for the review karussell.

You are the guy that thought me basic seating position, mirror position, and things to look for when on the track. In fact you came along as shotgun instructor in my E92 M3 Jerez Black on Fox Red for a lap on North Loop a while back.

Anyway i never know how fast I go while on the track, I never have time to look at the instruments with exception of quick glance at the water temp.

Having said I got Exec Pack just for the gadgets.
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