5k Oil Change

[bradleym]

Just completed my first intermediate oil change at 5061 miles, using LL-01 0W-30 oil. Dealer had put in LL-01 5W-30 at approximately 1220 miles. Checked oil before change, measured right at max. As it came out the bottom of the car, the oil looked relatively clean. the photo below shows some of the used oil in a dropper and on a paper towel. Sending to blackstone, and will post results when i get them. I took delivery in March of 2016, most miles are commuting/touring, my intention is to change the oil myself every 5k off-cycle.

[ecf34]

When I changed mine I had 1L of oil leftover (the computer said oil level was good), was that the same for you?

[bradleym]

Originally Posted by ecf34

When I changed mine I had 1L of oil leftover (the computer said oil level was good), was that the same for you?

I put 6.5 litres in, computer registered at max fill....

[123Britt]

Pennzoil Pennzoil Platinum Euro SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
is recommended for your BMW (US)
.
.
I have found it to be an interesting debate as to why 0W-30 of the same oil brand is used by most BMW service depts; however, the Pennzoil oil selector spits out the 5W-40 recommendation.

[Ian1973]

5000 seems early, but to each his own.

Back when BMW had their 15,000 mile oil changes, I would do my own change at half that. But this car is 10,000, I just can't get myself to change it at 5000.

[bradleym]

Originally Posted by 123Britt

Pennzoil Pennzoil Platinum Euro SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
is recommended for your BMW (US)
.
.
I have found it to be an interesting debate as to why 0W-30 of the same oil brand is used by most BMW service depts; however, the Pennzoil oil selector spits out the 5W-40 recommendation.

the manual recommends 0W-40, with 0W-30 as alternative. i think either will be fine -- it is more likely the additive package that is critical, hence the use of the BMW-branded oil.

i'm not super clever about oil, but it seems to me that the 0W is the more critical number here, because you want lubrication to be as efficient as possible at startup when the engine is cold. if you tend to drive the car harder (i don't typically), especially if you track it, then perhaps it can run a little hotter -- in which case perhaps the 40 would be superior since it will remain a bit thicker at higher temps. i don't really know.

don't really want to litigate this issue -- the result of my research makes me pretty confident that i'll be ok using either SAE 30 or 40 oil, again, in my mind the additive package on offer is perhaps even more important.

[bradleym]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

5000 seems early, but to each his own.

Back when BMW had their 15,000 mile oil changes, I would do my own change at half that. But this car is 10,000, I just can't get myself to change it at 5000.

waiting to see what the blackstone analysis reveals, but i suspect you are correct, and visually this oil does not look 'dirty' to me. we'll see if i actually do this again at 15k, but i figured just after full run-in it couldn't hurt too much.

[Reach]

I had 'planned' to do similar, but just let the miles creep up. With a dealer change at 1200, I was thinking 6200 for an 'interval' service, but it seemed so recent I didn't bother. Now at 7400 the car's service minder is asking for oil service, and the dealer will cover it.

That seems like a more than fine interval if the car will request it that often and the dealer will do it. I will also ask the dealer for an oil sample for Blackstone.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by bradleym

waiting to see what the blackstone analysis reveals, but i suspect you are correct, and visually this oil does not look 'dirty' to me. we'll see if i actually do this again at 15k, but i figured just after full run-in it couldn't hurt too much.

Your blackstone analysis will look like very high metal counts and with strong TBN remaining and high flashpoint - the same as any low mileage, synthetic oil change early in a car's life. It will not tell you anything insightful, and it's too early to set a baseline for metal trending. Oh, and blackstone oil analysis metal trending is fairly useless

Your engine oil looks clean because there's nothing to make it dirty. You aren't experiencing consumption, so it's not like there's significant oil getting exposed to combustion byproducts. Your engine is new, so it's not like the oil is sitting among old oil/varnish/sludge and getting dirty from some of it. And even if it was super dirty, that means little too.

You can do 5k oil changes forever and be safe in the knowledge that no preventable lubrication related failure will ever occur due to running oil for too short or too long a period of time. I can't say the same for 10k mile oil changes, because history has shown that high powered, high compression, twin turbo engines - especially with direct injection - don't tend to fair as well even under 10k mile oil changes over the long run. However, oil technology is advancing so I guess we shall see.

[CookMaster]

As long as you're running high grade synthetic oil, you should be good at 10k intervals. 5k is for non-synthetics.

[Grover1971]

Personally I like to change every 5000kms (not miles). Might be a waste, but I couldn't care less. I like looking after my engines and enjoy the time spent working on my cars.

It's cheaper than a takeout meal and the time spent is therapeutic as well as being good for your car.

[bradleym]

ok, fwiw, here is my blackstone analysis. have fun!

[JoeFromPA]

Wow, that is one of the lowest metal counts I've seen on an engine under 10,000 total miles. Compliments to BMW for designing an extremely low wear engine - even when brand new!

I used to do alot of hobbyist oil analysis and here's what I see:

- This oil could EASILY make it to 6000-7000 miles and probably longer in terms of wear accumulation, filtration, and TBN/resistance to acidity [see my conclusion on why I also don't believe it should be run further]. 10,000 is probably fairly close to "end of life" and I wouldn't want to go longer than that without strong proof this oil can last. I would most likely go to a 7,000-8,000 mile oil change interval once past warranty.

- However, the oil sheared down surprisingly and is now a 20 weight oil. Considering BMW is now recommending a 0w40 oil for this engine, I probably wouldn't want to run this particular oil much longer and not in a high stress situation.

- Silicon and sodium represent the elements of good air filtration (air gets filtered into combustion chamber, touches oil on cylinder walls, and after combustion some elements in air get into oil). Also, Silicon can increase if gaskets/sealing surfaces are prepared using a silicon-based gasket material/caulk. The very low volume of silicon in this report indicates excellent air filtration and likely either no silicon based gaskets or some super impressive sealing that isn't bleeding into the initial oil.

....

Bottom line: TBN, which is one of the more important aspects of an oil's capacity to last, is going to do best in a brand new engine because there's so little pollutants in it creating acidity. So your strong TBN showing is great, but not unexpected.

Your engine is super clean and showing unbelievably low wear metals for a brand new engine. That may be the best I've ever seen. Speaks to BMW's engineering IMHO.

That oil shearing in so few miles tells me that oil should not be used in this application, at least based one one anecdote here. This is not an engine/turbo setup where you want a volatile oil. I would use 0w40 from here on out.

[bradleym]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Wow, that is one of the lowest metal counts I've seen on an engine under 10,000 total miles. Compliments to BMW for designing an extremely low wear engine - even when brand new!

I used to do alot of hobbyist oil analysis and here's what I see:

- This oil could EASILY make it to 6000-7000 miles and probably longer in terms of wear accumulation, filtration, and TBN/resistance to acidity [see my conclusion on why I also don't believe it should be run further]. 10,000 is probably fairly close to "end of life" and I wouldn't want to go longer than that without strong proof this oil can last. I would most likely go to a 7,000-8,000 mile oil change interval once past warranty.

- However, the oil sheared down surprisingly and is now a 20 weight oil. Considering BMW is now recommending a 0w40 oil for this engine, I probably wouldn't want to run this particular oil much longer and not in a high stress situation.

- Silicon and sodium represent the elements of good air filtration (air gets filtered into combustion chamber, touches oil on cylinder walls, and after combustion some elements in air get into oil). Also, Silicon can increase if gaskets/sealing surfaces are prepared using a silicon-based gasket material/caulk. The very low volume of silicon in this report indicates excellent air filtration and likely either no silicon based gaskets or some super impressive sealing that isn't bleeding into the initial oil.

....

Bottom line: TBN, which is one of the more important aspects of an oil's capacity to last, is going to do best in a brand new engine because there's so little pollutants in it creating acidity. So your strong TBN showing is great, but not unexpected.

Your engine is super clean and showing unbelievably low wear metals for a brand new engine. That may be the best I've ever seen. Speaks to BMW's engineering IMHO.

That oil shearing in so few miles tells me that oil should not be used in this application, at least based one one anecdote here. This is not an engine/turbo setup where you want a volatile oil. I would use 0w40 from here on out.

thank you for the commentary -- very informative and much appreciated. i agree that going forward i'll use 0W40 oil, and will request my dealer use that grade when i take it in for the 10k change.

this oil only had 3800 miles on it, which may help explain the unusually low metals counts -- we'll see what turns up next time when it has ~5k miles on it.

pleased with these results -- now, several hundred miles on, checking the oil continues to show the level right at top of range.

i absolutely love this car!

btw, i mis-reported what the dealer used at 1200 miles, they used 0W30, not 5W30.

[SapphireSiC]

My engine uses no oil either so I stopped checking the level after initial fill up.

[SD ///M4]

I'm changing the oil today on my '16 M4 at ~7550 miles. I wanted to do it at 6200 miles but the holidays got in the way. The car has 7 track days on it and another track weekend coming up in February, and I wanted to change the oil before that. I sourced 0W-40 BMW M TwinPower Turbo oil at ECS Tuning so I'm using that.

I've found that the torque spec for the oil filter housing is 25 Nm and 20 Nm for the older 8mm allen bolt drain plug. However I can't find the torque spec for the newer 17mm hex head oil drain plug. So what's the spec for this newer drain plug?

EDIT: I found 18 ft./lbs. = 24.4 Nm for the oil drain plug. So pretty much the same for both. BTW, this steel drain plug is the same drain plug used in most BMWs for years. It is not necessary to replace the drain plug at every oil change but the copper crush wash does need to be changed.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

EDIT: I found 18 ft./lbs. = 24.4 Nm for the oil drain plug. So pretty much the same for both. BTW, this steel drain plug is the same drain plug used in most BMWs for years. It is not necessary to replace the drain plug at every oil change but the copper crush wash does need to be changed.

Its 20Nm for the older Magnesium oil sump models till end August 2014
Drain plug needs to be replaced

Its 25Nm for the newer Aluminium oil sump models from September 2014
Only the crush washer needs replacing

[gatsojon]

Interesting thread as I'm going to do an interim oil change too.

Simple question: what is the size of the filter removal tool please?

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by gatsojon

Interesting thread as I'm going to do an interim oil change too.

Simple question: what is the size of the filter removal tool please?

You really need something like this to remove the oil filter housing cap:



It fits over the cap and allows one to use a large wrench to remove/replace the cap (click pic for link). You can use a 21mm socket, 21mm box or open end wrench, crescent wrench, or a 3/8" socket wrench or torque wrench.

Edited: mine just arrived in the mail to replace the one that I've been using for 5 years that doesn't have a 3/8" drive hole in the middle. The size of the nut is actually 21mm, not 19mm as stated on their website. I've edited my original post and I've contacted them.

[MRV99]

I have a 2012 X5 50 which I have owned since new. I have always felt 15k intervals on turbo oil is way too much so I did 1200 breakin service just like my M cars and then every 7k. At 53k miles it was burning a Qt of oil every 500-700 miles so BMW replaced all the valve seals. When the tech opened the engine up he was absolutely shocked to see zero sludge. He actually double checked the mileage because and I quote "I have not seen a modern BMW engine this clean with 55k miles in a very very long time."

He stated my 7500 oil changes is what kept it clean and sludge free.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Considering BMW is now recommending a 0w40 oil for this engine...

Are they

I have seen most people on here saying their manual says 0w30 (mine does as well) with 5w30 next in line. Of course an LL-01 0w40 will be fine but I haven't seen where BMW is recommending that as the first choice.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Are they

I have seen most people on here saying their manual says 0w30 (mine does as well) with 5w30 next in line. Of course an LL-01 0w40 will be fine but I haven't seen where BMW is recommending that as the first choice.

0W-40 oil has taken some time to be available in many markets and still is not available everywhere.
So manuals forts called for the 5W-30 one that is easily available.

In markets that use LL-01 oil they are now calling for 0W-40 where it is available. Else 5W-30 (see below from BMW's service system)

In certain European countries where LL-04 is approved (only approved in Europe and only in countries with very clean fuel) you can use the LL-04 0W-30

2016 US M4 manual calls for 0W-40 since its available in the USA and the USA uses LL-01 oils (See below)