Car and Driver: Giulia QV v ATS-V v M3 ZCP v C63S

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

That 123 trap by the 63S is redicerus.

Big torque and big power... but then again, big weight...

[jpdchicago]

No way I would get an Alfa Romeo the first year of production.
Reliability has been awful on past models. In a year or two why not...
More competition in this segment is great for all of us.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Another German magazine rated the Giulia QV way above the M3 ZCP and even above the M4 GTS, so who knows. One thing is certain IMO, the arrival of the Alfa means that enthusiasts have more choice, which is great!

I guess one could always question the reliability of the Alfa but there is no denying its performance.

[dkhm3]

these reviews are all over the place.

honestly, if i were to do it all over again, I would get the m3 again.

dct, lightweight, lowest depreciation, practical trunk and back seat, and I still look at it like I did 2.5 years ago.

I can't say the same about the other cars I have owned, except for the E46.

[domino_z]

is that google maps i see in the f80, how do we get that

so alfa had to swap out the car bw takes with the motor trend guys because of reliability lol

[Germanauto]

I feel the Bimmer should have finished ahead of the Merc. First C&D complains about the M3 not being hardcore enough, then when it is they complain it's not comfortable enough. Aside from the interior the Merc has a grand total of 0 advantages over the M3.

But I must say that these M3s are getting awfully expensive. It's difficult to find one at a dealer below $80K. That's a TON of money for something that's still in the 3-series range. Not worth it to me. The Alfa has the advantage as far as MSRP is concerned, but I fear it's leases will suck cause of poor residuals.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I feel the Bimmer should have finished ahead of the Merc. First C&D complains about the M3 not being hardcore enough, then when it is they complain it's not comfortable enough. Aside from the interior the Merc has a grand total of 0 advantages over the M3.

But I must say that these M3s are getting awfully expensive. It's difficult to find one at a dealer below $80K. That's a TON of money for something that's still in the 3-series range. Not worth it to me. The Alfa has the advantage as far as MSRP is concerned, but I fear it's leases will suck cause of poor residuals.

I believe there are no leasing available for the 1st batch of Giulias in the US... Here in Australia, the 300 allocated Giulia QV's have been sold out already :-)

[A418t81]

Surprising complaints about the ride on the M3. It is certainly firm, but mine is my daily driver and I've never thought it was uncomfortable. I handles bumps and imperfections much better than my 335is with the 19" wheels. Bumps would crash through that chassis with that wheel combo.

[The Choosey begger]

They ran the 1/4 mile in 12.2 sec, i ran the 1/4 mile in mine in 11.8 at 3,000 density altitude.
I dont know if they dont know how to properly launch the M3 or what, also what about the bump in hp the cp brings?

[KevinM]

These reviews make it clear how tight the game is in this segment. Motor Trend says the ZCP is the best thing ever; C&D says skip it, etc. Alfa is the current hero, and kudos to it for shaking things up a bit.

Among all these extremely competent sport sedans, the M3 stands out for offering a manual transmission. At least for now, that is good enough for me (AST-V non-withstanding).

[damnitBobby]

Compared to the Motortrend review this is more relevant information for prospective buyers. Lap times are cool and all but at the end of the day one car will only be faster by a hair. In the real world, where very few track their cars, it's a useless metric other than bragging rights.

I think the real value (if there is any value in buying cars in this segment lol) is a lightly optioned M3. I think that $68-70k price strikes just the right balance of being a special car without that chump feeling of having paid too much. C&D said it best about the diminishing returns when the price tag goes higher.

[Devilzmantis]

The Alfa should get a -100 in just looks alone. WTF is that front? Looks like some Japanese Godzilla Emoji LOL sorry.

[mischiefbenz]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I believe there are no leasing available for the 1st batch of Giulias in the US... Here in Australia, the 300 allocated Giulia QV's have been sold out already :-)

You are able to lease the Alfa now in the US. Unfortunately the residuals are very poor; sub 50% on a 36/12k term.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by mischiefbenz

Your are able to lease the Alfa now in the . Unfortunately the residuals are very poor on the QF. Sub 50% on a 36/12k term.

That is , but still a great car

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Compared to the Motortrend review this is more relevant information for prospective buyers. Lap times are cool and all but at the end of the day one car will only be faster by a hair. In the real world, where very few track their cars, it's a useless metric other than bragging rights.

I think the real value (if there is any value in buying cars in this segment lol) is a lightly optioned M3. I think that $68-70k price strikes just the right balance of being a special car without that chump feeling of having paid too much. C&D said it best about the diminishing returns when the price tag goes higher.

It seems like every M3 I see in dealer inventory is at least $80K. That's way too much in my book for something still in the 3-series line.

[Golfster]

Forget the 3rd place finish, the comments on the M3 are far from glowing.

[mischiefbenz]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

That is , but still a great car

Agreed. I considered getting one until I found out the residual. Plus getting one by the end of March when my current lease expires is a problem.

[BMWFanatic2008]

If I was buying a new car right now, I would choose them in the following order:

1. M3
2. C63
3. Alfa
4. ATS

If Alfa was priced around 60k (nicely equipped) I would maybe place it in the 2nd place since it would be a good value for the money.

[FC]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

It seems like every M3 I see in dealer inventory is at least $80K. That's way too much in my book for something still in the 3-series line.

Agreed. A "stripper" M3 with just extended leather is a pretty well equipped car. Even checking the ZCP box one could get an F80 for well under 70K.

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Surprising complaints about the ride on the M3. It is certainly firm, but mine is my daily driver and I've never thought it was uncomfortable. I handles bumps and imperfections much better than my 335is with the 19" wheels. Bumps would crash through that chassis with that wheel combo.

Yeah seems C&D changes their tune quite often on the same car. I believe the article they had sometime last year on the ZCP M3 praised it compared to the non-ZCP. I believe they also said the ZCP has a better ride as BMW M spent a lot of time tuning the dampers. This much I can tell you: I owned a 2016 C63S AMG and put around 4k miles on it. The engine in that car is a masterpiece, the interior is very nice. However, the ride is poor. It crashes over bumps and larger expansion joints even in comfort mode. I ended up replacing it with a 2017 M3 ZCP, and I can tell you for a FACT that the ZCP, even with 20" wheels, rides better than the AMG.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by FC

Agreed. A "stripper" M3 with just extended leather is a pretty well equipped car. Even checking the ZCP box one could get an F80 for well under 70K.

Adding only ZCP to an M3 brings the MSRP to $69,745.

[FC]

Originally Posted by WW435

Adding only ZCP to an M3 brings the MSRP to $69,745.

Sure, but that's MSRP, and still 10k less than 80k.