Another "Track/Speed Experience" fatality

[AustinTrkJunkie]

http://jalopnik.com/racing-instructo...day-1792294047

These type of events seem to be inherently much more dangerous than HPDE's since it's not a personal/student's car being driven - more like a rental you could give a rats-ass about - and the driver/attendee only get a few laps to go as fast as they can, often taking the left seat with zero experience in any type of high HP car.

Sad day regardless.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Surprised so little talk on this forum, Much more talk on Rennlist

As an instructor this stuff hits home, no one else here on F80 have that feeling?

[mcvaughan]

Sad. Seems like those type of events attract the balls out types. Gotta be respectful of what can happen out there...

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Surprised so little talk on this forum, Much more talk on Rennlist

As an instructor this stuff hits home, no one else here on F80 have that feeling?

I am really questioning how much more instructing I want to do but a normal HPDE day is a lot different than just showing up and rent an exotic and go fast!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...han-you-think/

[CanAutM3]

I would never do what this guy did. At least during an HPDE, folks drive their own cars. It is not without risk, but I figure I have less chances of sustaining an injury while instructing at an HPDE than playing ice hockey or football .

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I really questioning how much more instructing I want to do but a normal HPDE day is a lot different than just showing up and rent an exotic and go fast!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...han-you-think/

Good article, thanks for sharing.

I've never instructed at an event like this either, always been HPDEs. But in the last 2-3 years the hardware that's coming out to even these events is sickly fast.

It used to be a Corvette or 911T was the king at a track day when I started instructing in '10. Now there are McLaren's high-end Ferrari's or Lambos at pretty much every event.

Without a doubt, staying ahead of cars that can hit 170 at COTA and students with very limited seat time is becoming more of a challenge. I've actually gotten to where I tell my students 140 is it for top speed at COTA - but even that is plenty fast for something to go wrong in a flash. And like the article states, these are street cars optimized for a 45mph impact, not 100mph+

Honestly, I've gotten to where I like teaching ITS' more than novice students. At least I know it's an experienced driver and *I* do most of the driving when training instructor candidates, not the other way around

[tchiers]

I think everyone who sits right seat has something like this in the back of their mind.

For me at least, I always groan a bit when I see I've been assigned a green student in something very high HP (I've had several 911 Turbo & GT3s). But - knock on wood - all of those students have been at least willing to listen and a few were even good. No mishaps.

I attribute that two main things - the first is the rigorous instructor training we do to ensure you have firm control of the student (and car, by extension). This includes dealing with problem children and keeping yourself and everyone else safe. The second is the DE culture and the effect that has on who signs up. The students are driving their own car and want to take it home in one piece. They also know from the beginning that we are serious on the E in HPDE and expect to learn.

I have to assume these "Experience" places use qualified instructors, so they have #1, but #2 goes out the door when it's not your car and your main clientele is the bachelor party that went on a heater on the craps table last night and can afford to pony up $500/pp to beat the piss out of your exotic cars.

So I'll continue to instruct DE students in fast cars, but I don't think I'd ever be willing to "instruct" a yahoo in someone else's Ferrari.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by tchiers

I think everyone who sits right seat has something like this in the back of their mind.

For me at least, I always groan a bit when I see I've been assigned a green student in something very high HP (I've had several 911 Turbo & GT3s). But - knock on wood - all of those students have been at least willing to listen and a few were even good. No mishaps.

I attribute that two main things - the first is the rigorous instructor training we do to ensure you have firm control of the student (and car, by extension). This includes dealing with problem children and keeping yourself and everyone else safe. The second is the DE culture and the effect that has on who signs up. The students are driving their own car and want to take it home in one piece. They also know from the beginning that we are serious on the E in HPDE and expect to learn.

I have to assume these "Experience" places use qualified instructors, so they have #1, but #2 goes out the door when it's not your car and your main clientele is the bachelor party that went on a heater on the craps table last night and can afford to pony up $500/pp to beat the piss out of your exotic cars.

So I'll continue to instruct DE students in fast cars, but I don't think I'd ever be willing to "instruct" a yahoo in someone else's Ferrari.

I'm betting we've met, the Texas instructor core is pretty thin, but great thoughts regardless +1

[md-370z]

stock

[tchiers]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

I'm betting we've met, the Texas instructor core is pretty thin, but great thoughts regardless +1

Perhaps I run mainly with PCA for a variety or reasons. I've done some TWS PDS in the past, but with a 2 & 4 year-old at home, it's hard to get weekends off any more.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by tchiers

Perhaps I run mainly with PCA for a variety or reasons. I've done some TWS PDS in the past, but with a 2 & 4 year-old at home, it's hard to get weekends off any more.

Heh, just wait until they get to 7+, I have a 8 and 9yo and it's the main reason I sold the racecar!

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by Railgun

There was some corporate event at Silverstone I went to a few years ago that Nissan was involved in. Drove a 370Z and a GTR. I'm no expert by any stretch and have never driven Silverstone, but I have many track days under my belt, not that they were vetting anyone.

There were several cars simultaneously on track, and apparently passing was allowed, but in this instance, I didn't even get an opportunity to move off the line..the "instructor" just grabbed the wheel and did it himself...probably the single stupidest thing I'd ever seen.

Fast forward to last year and, someone as a non-instructor, I had some of best instruction over a couple laps of the Nordschleife.

I hear the comments some of you say about not wanting to be in the car with a novice, but perhaps these outfits should better vet their drivers and come up with a better plan to avoids these incidents. While something can always go wrong, mechanical failures and the like, driver error should never be a thing.

Some of the things that have kept me out of trouble with most students include:

Emailing the student a week or so before the event - when possible - and getting to "know" them, their car, their experience, what they are hoping to achieve, etc. Getting some rapport going before you even meet them live really helps sets the tone for how the weekend will go.

Reinforcing that this is supposed to be fun, not a competitive event and we want them to go home with their car intact and not on a flatbed, or worse.

Making sure that they know there's no trophy and no one walks away from the weekend "winning" a DE.

And the biggie is establishing that *you* - not them - are in command even though you're in the right seat. If I say hot pits, we hot pit. No arguing, or backtalk.

I've found that 99% of novice/green students take to the above very well, and most really do just want to have fun, get some seat time and drive their car home on Sunday.

Where the problem lies is those guys with a few weekends/events and whose only concern is being solo'd. Can't recount the number of times first thing Saturday where I've looked for my blue/intermediate student only to find him already strapped in on grid waiting for the steward to let him on track. Open the door and intro myself only to greeted with "I'm solo, don't need an instructor" That's usually the start of a long weekend.

The vid below is hilarious, it's unreal how much of this rings true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8

[dzvero]

Dont they have tires nest to the wall?

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Some of the things hat have kept me out of trouble with most students include:

Emailing the student a week or so before the event - when possible - and getting to "know" them, their car, their experience, what they are hoping to achieve, etc. Getting some rapport going before you even meet them live really helps sets the tone for how the weekend will go.

Reinforcing that this is supposed to be fun, not a competitive event and we want them to go home with their car intact and not on a flatbed, or worse.

Making sure that they know there's no trophy and no one walks away from the weekend "winning" a DE.

And the biggie is establishing that *you* - not them - are in command even though you're in the right seat. If I say hot pits, we hot pit. No arguing, or backtalk.

I've found that 99% of novice/green students take to the above very well, and most really do just want to have fun, get some seat time and drive their car home on Sunday.

Where the problem are those guys with a few weekends/events and whose only concern is being solo'd. Can't recount the number of times first thing Saturday where I've looked for my blue/intermediate student only to find him already strapped in on grid waiting for the steward to let him on track. Open the door and intro myself only to greeted with "I'm solo, don't need an instructor" That's usually the start of a long weekend.

The vid below is hilarious, it's unreal how much of this rings true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8

Lol!

[pruettfan]

This is sad. The presence of fire makes me really suspicious of the car. I was a paramedic for 9 years (basically all of the 90's) and I never had an accident result in a fire. Normally when a fire is involved its because of an issue with the car that triggered the incident. I read reviews of this place in December when we were planning a trip to Vegas and I considered trying this place out to experience a Mclaren 570s. Anyway one of the reviews showed a fire ended a customers experience in a Lambo and the guy said the folks there acted like it was something that happens all the time.

[pruettfan]

Correction, just looked at the speed vegas website, the place I reviewed as the one at the speedway.