Rawness - The Trek from E30 to F80

[mxa121]

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The original M3, the E30, the epitome of all that is M (or so I am told).
It was raw, and is considered one of the best road going sports cars ever made. The things that made it so awesome was how raw it was, the noises, the ride, handling, etc.

The original could out-handle all of it's competitors. Regardless of it's power output (which was low) it was still epic. All M cars have been held to that benchmark, being able to lap a track faster than it's competitors, not a drag strip queen. The chassis was king.

As time moved on, each M3 became more and more refined, reducing that "raw" feeling of the original. From E30 > E36 > E46 > E92 these sentiments were echoed. Heavier, more luxurious, less track focused. All of these things rang for each release of the new model. Eventually, the newer, more advanced car became loved for it's own merits regardless of it's shortcomings relative to the original M3 intent.

Now the new comer, the F8X designation, the M car that breaks the powertrain mold. But, it did not get heavier, it is louder, and some have made the case that it is the most track focused M3 in recent years, perhaps dating all the way back to the E30.

In this regard of "raw" M car bravado, how does the new M3/4 stack up? Is it heading in the right direction in this regard?
Those who have owned many M cars or none at all, please chime in. I think the curve has flattened out, this may be the first M car that has started to round and head back to it's roots (disregarding the feelings towards turbocharging).

[myzmak]

I like the idea of this post and, IIRC @stressdoc was making this point himself a couple of weeks ago.

In any event, I don't think it is quite as pure and simple as that. There is much more tech now, which inevitably makes this a more digital experience than an analog one. If you equate analog with 'raw', you might think the F80 is going the other way. Of course, you could using that logic one would also say the E30 is much less raw than a Model T......so, rawness has its limits.....

But, yes, new car is aimed at being lighter and more track focused. Assuming execution works, I get your point and think it has some merit.

[mxa121]

With all the controversy around this new car, no others have an opinion on whether this is actually CLOSER to the original M3 in focus than the outgoing model?

[paddy335]

My opinion, which I've mentioned many times, is that BMW have done a very good job of retaining the M3 as the benchmark in it's class, ever since the E30. Times change and each model has lived in a different world than the one before, but they continue to put a car to market that is immediately the target for all other competitors, and meets the requirements of target drivers in that particular time.

As for rawness, I think it is easy for us to sit here in 2014 and suggest the E30 was 'raw'. But in the 80's, I remember riding in it and being in awe of what I would now classify as a luxury GT. It was refined and luxurious (leather buckets seats!), as well as being a rampant performer in its class, much as the 36, 46, and 90 were.

I think 'raw' has been replaced in 2014 by 'intelligence' (for want of a better word) which is what separates the best and fastest cars today. In many cases 'rawness' is specifically dialled in only after the technicians have made the car as technically capable and sharp as possible.

In this context I think the M3/4 have hit the market beautifully. In todays market, and in the segment it is in, I think a truly 'raw' M3/4 car would bomb badly.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by mxa121

The original M3, the E30, the epitome of all that is M (or so I am told).
It was raw, and is considered one of the best road going sports cars ever made. The things that made it so awesome was how raw it was, the noises, the ride, handling, etc.

The original could out-handle all of it's competitors. Regardless of it's power output (which was low) it was still epic. All M cars have been held to that benchmark, being able to lap a track faster than it's competitors, not a drag strip queen. The chassis was king.

As time moved on, each M3 became more and more refined, reducing that "raw" feeling of the original. From E30 > E36 > E46 > E92 these sentiments were echoed. Heavier, more luxurious, less track focused. All of these things rang for each release of the new model. Eventually, the newer, more advanced car became loved for it's own merits regardless of it's shortcomings relative to the original M3 intent.

Now the new comer, the F8X designation, the M car that breaks the powertrain mold. But, it did not get heavier, it is louder, and some have made the case that it is the most track focused M3 in recent years, perhaps dating all the way back to the E30.

In this regard of "raw" M car bravado, how does the new M3/4 stack up? Is it heading in the right direction in this regard?
Those who have owned many M cars or none at all, please chime in. I think the curve has flattened out, this may be the first M car that has started to round and head back to it's roots (disregarding the feelings towards turbocharging).

I would say chassis is still king, especially now that they've finally brought solid subframes to "generic" M3s (as in, not GTS or some fancy pants track-prepped special editions... only took them three generations to learn this lesson).

If we're ignoring the turbocharging/EPS discussion, this car definitely is a step in the right direction. Not gaining weight despite all the new gadgets is very welcome, there's that solid subframe, and it's very nice to not have to upgrade the tires and brakes before you take it to the track, like you had to do with the outgoing model. In that regard, I would agree that it is the most "track-ready" car so far, since you can drive it to the track straight from the sales floor. It is the first M3 I don't feel the itch to modify at all, other than some cosmetic stuff to fix a few aesthetic nitpicks. Not sure if that makes it a "better" track car (again, ignoring the turbo/EPS debate, and looking at it more from a "fun to drive" than raw performance viewpoint), since it's still fat and even bigger now (although the size difference is not very noticeable with the improved suspension, IMO).