BMW M3 Competition Pack Faster than M4 GTS on Anglesey Track

[VCP]

I understand what you are doing, but it is derailing an informative discussion for us owners.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am just having fun pulling his leg. Not so long ago he vehemently argued the opposite, even insulting the folks who argued differently to him. Maybe if he had a more open mind then, I would not be nagging him now.

[jpdchicago]

I can really tell who has ever really driven the Gts vs the trolls in those discussions. I have yet to meet an unhappy Gts owner.
Best car I ever owned in terms of handling AND sensations. Period.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I a glad you accually read my post. Yes I did and I accually stick to that! Straight from the factory this car Is very very god.

It stand ap. -2 camber all 4 wheels and Its not understeery or oversteery Its just hook up very well long or short track. No Porsche come from factory this god. All the 991 GT3 RS even rubb tire to car at Nurburgring In stock form. It will not happen to GTS stock. They pay attention to details like Porsche did not.


But Its porkey the GTS, and even It go very well short tracks as well, but If to compete In timeattack It will be more easy to go many laps whit out tire wear out that fast If more camber. And you will more easy keep tire pressure/ temp a place where you can set fastest laptime even In 3 and 4 lap. And yes In the more agressive pirelli trofeo R you will gain time. You will do fine in stock size. No need bigger zize. All this, do not mean Its Not Sweet spot compromise street/track car right 100% stock from factory. (What I talk about In terms of tire pressure, steering input from tire etc, Is smal details In the total package)

I have yet to drive a better street/track compromise car accually. It do all thing track and street accually very, very god right from factory. I have not even alignment done, as factory did perfect. At this time around I can accually say I got seat time In GTS, at al tracks. It rip up even short mickey mouse tracks even Its porkey. If you look at video when I got my friend in car, I accually drive very aggressive when Nissan GT-R show up. My GTS just give solid traction all over, It should as a front engine rearwhreel drive car NOT have this solid traction out of hairpin style corner...but It have just that! Super traction rear! No normal M4 CP/CS will ever deliver this

If I drive a regular M4 CP like this I can never handle It, NEVER. It would lose Its calm and be all over the place under and oversteer lose traction.

This my friend Is the difference vs a street car and a solid developed street/track car.

Now lets not forget M4 GTS, I can totaly drop It down maximum rideheight and In stock form accually attack tracks even more fast and agressive. No Porsche you can accually fine tune like this GTS. M4 Is underrated, but In time people will understand how special It Is.

As I said before, I had M3 CSL when It was new, had It 5 years s It was so special. At the time the know nothing magazine guys and their hangaround did also not like CSL. Special cars take time for the crowd to appricate. But often owners who accually rip up tacks all over got a whole other knowhow.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Didn't you say not so long ago that the M4 GTS was JUST PERFECT from the factory and that more tires or more camber would do nothing to improve its performance ?

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Yes, we all know! What ever I just repost real life experience from when driving M4 GTS.

We all will contibute to this M4 GTS forum In different ways. We must accept that. We give what we have, CANaut Is the enginer never been on track, he question If aero accually make a difference on track. We could keep on pulling Each others legs or just hit the tracks

Oh..@ Canaut..If you try hard can you see somthing god with what I post and tell about my real life experience on track(long or short) with M4 GTS

Originally Posted by VCP

I understand what you are doing, but it is derailing an informative discussion for us owners.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Yes, we all know! What ever I just repost real life experience from when driving M4 GTS.

We all will contibute to this M4 GTS forum In different ways. We must accept that. We give what we have, CANaut Is the enginer never been on track, he question If aero accually make a difference on track. We could keep on pulling Each others legs or just hit the tracks

Oh..@ Canaut..If you try hard can you see somthing god with what I post and tell about my real life experience on track(long or short) with M4 GTS

It's the constant insults, misquotes and unsubstantiated statements that make you a troll.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

If I would say all you come with Is nonsens, (oh where did I read that..) would that be an Insult to you then. Get real...Is than an Insult or what☺️
You the troll, just pulling my leg was It not?

Thing Is alot of my post here In M4 GTS forum
Is far from trolling, Its real life experience from track with M4 GTS. I got loads of data driving tracks with M4 GTS, you got nothing M4 GTS, you just pull that leg..
Haha you da Troll

unsubstantiated, well thats you not me my friend. All tracks I drive racelogic datalogg, I accually know that ECO set M4 GTS no aero Is no real M4 GTS...You and Chris do not know the difference. You think Its the same, like It make no what so ever difference to the car, and that BMW just put It adjustable for bragging rights to have on the pitlane.

I accually know how big G.s the real M4 GTS make In the bends vs ECO M4 GTS no aero. You know nothing on the matter.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

If I would say all you come with Is nonsens, (oh where did I read that..) would that be an Insult to you then. Get real...Is than an Insult or what☺️
You the troll, just pulling my leg was It not?

Thing Is alot of my post here In M4 GTS forum
Is far from trolling, Its real life experience from track with M4 GTS. I got loads of data driving tracks with M4 GTS, you got nothing M4 GTS, you just pull that leg..
Haha you da Troll

unsubstantiated, well thats you not me my friend. All tracks I drive racelogic datalogg, I accually know that ECO set M4 GTS no aero Is no real M4 GTS...You and Chris do not know the difference. You think Its the same, like It make no what so ever difference to the car, and that BMW just put It adjustable for bragging rights to have on the pitlane.

I accually know how big G.s the real M4 GTS make In the bends vs ECO M4 GTS no aero. You know nothing on the matter.

I like to troll Fanboi trolls

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

I a glad you accually read my post. Yes I did and I accually stick to that! Straight from the factory this car Is very very god.

It stand ap. -2 camber all 4 wheels and Its not understeery or oversteery Its just hook up very well long or short track. No Porsche come from factory this god. All the 991 GT3 RS even rubb tire to car at Nurburgring In stock form. It will not happen to GTS stock. They pay attention to details like Porsche did not.


But Its porkey the GTS, and even It go very well short tracks as well, but If to compete In timeattack It will be more easy to go many laps whit out tire wear out that fast If more camber. And you will more easy keep tire pressure/ temp a place where you can set fastest laptime even In 3 and 4 lap. And yes In the more agressive pirelli trofeo R you will gain time. You will do fine in stock size. No need bigger zize. All this, do not mean Its Not Sweet spot compromise street/track car right 100% stock from factory. (What I talk about In terms of tire pressure, steering input from tire etc, Is smal details In the total package)

I have yet to drive a better street/track compromise car accually. It do all thing track and street accually very, very god right from factory. I have not even alignment done, as factory did perfect. At this time around I can accually say I got seat time In GTS, at al tracks. It rip up even short mickey mouse tracks even Its porkey. If you look at video when I got my friend in car, I accually drive very aggressive when Nissan GT-R show up. My GTS just give solid traction all over, It should as a front engine rearwhreel drive car NOT have this solid traction out of hairpin style corner...but It have just that! Super traction rear! No normal M4 CP/CS will ever deliver this

If I drive a regular M4 CP like this I can never handle It, NEVER. It would lose Its calm and be all over the place under and oversteer lose traction.

This my friend Is the difference vs a street car and a solid developed street/track car.

Now lets not forget M4 GTS, I can totaly drop It down maximum rideheight and In stock form accually attack tracks even more fast and agressive. No Porsche you can accually fine tune like this GTS. M4 Is underrated, but In time people will understand how special It Is.

As I said before, I had M3 CSL when It was new, had It 5 years s It was so special. At the time the know nothing magazine guys and their hangaround did also not like CSL. Special cars take time for the crowd to appricate. But often owners who accually rip up tacks all over got a whole other knowhow.

Porsche paid way more attention to the GT3/RS which is why they slaughter the M4 GTS 8 ways 'til Sunday and don't require a team of engineers to put down some blisteringly fast lap times. The M4 GTS requires you to mess around with crazy stuff and when it's said and done the times it's put up are not impressive. They aimed for a 3 year old GT3 and failed (like they have in the past) and against the RS it's laughable. Then you add the fact that the new GT3 is faster than both the .1 3/RS and it shows how far behind it is. And on top of that, it can't keep pace with an entry level 911 which isn't even on Cup tires and has signicantly less power/torque and no real downforce.

[smh_amg_m4gts]

Two reasons:

1) Nannies are still on
2) Right-hand drive! LOL

[kevinlpl]

Captain,

Please continue to post and share your observations, experiences and videos. As another GTS owner (and Porsche GT3 owner), who drives, instructs and participates in amateur Racing with NASA (in Spec E46), I find your posts interesting and informative.

As a driver most of us know that results in any car, on any given day, with any given driver vary greatly. My practice times at 8 am may be faster than my qualifying times at 11 am on stickers, from the OAT rising 20 degrees. So I take all posted results with a grain of salt.

For the money, whether MSRP, or at some of the reduced prices I am seeing for new and used GTSs, it is a lot of car for the money. I have owned more and less expensive rides in the past, but I continue to find the GTS a really well sorted car, for what it is and what it does. My single complaint with the car is the narrow clearance between the front wheel barrel and the caliper, as small rocks are caught and machine the wheel.

I would not doubt that on the right day with the right driver, an M3 CP could be dramatically faster than a GTS. Example: I instruct for PCA, Sometimes I use my Ford Raptor Truck as an Instruction Tool, sometimes I use my daughters E36 bone stock M3, and I'm waving Porsche Turbos, out of the way! Clearly they "should" be way faster. (this is actually a lot of fun!) My purpose though, is not to embarrass, but to instruct.

Whatever car you are in, get it to the track and learn, have fun, and do it safely. I hope everyone keeps posting videos, whatever the results.

Personally I just find the insulting to be rather childish. Lets keep it upbeat and positive out there!

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by kevinlpl

Captain,

Please continue to post and share your observations, experiences and videos. As another GTS owner (and Porsche GT3 owner), who drives, instructs and participates in amateur Racing with NASA (in Spec E46), I find your posts interesting and informative.

As a driver most of us know that results in any car, on any given day, with any given driver vary greatly. My practice times at 8 am may be faster than my qualifying times at 11 am on stickers, from the OAT rising 20 degrees. So I take all posted results with a grain of salt.

For the money, whether MSRP, or at some of the reduced prices I am seeing for new and used GTSs, it is a lot of car for the money. I have owned more and less expensive rides in the past, but I continue to find the GTS a really well sorted car, for what it is and what it does. My single complaint with the car is the narrow clearance between the front wheel barrel and the caliper, as small rocks are caught and machine the wheel.

I would not doubt that on the right day with the right driver, an M3 CP could be dramatically faster than a GTS. Example: I instruct for PCA, Sometimes I use my Ford Raptor Truck as an Instruction Tool, sometimes I use my daughters E36 bone stock M3, and I'm waving Porsche Turbos, out of the way! Clearly they "should" be way faster. (this is actually a lot of fun!) My purpose though, is not to embarrass, but to instruct.

Whatever car you are in, get it to the track and learn, have fun, and do it safely. I hope everyone keeps posting videos, whatever the results.

Personally I just find the insulting to be rather childish. Lets keep it upbeat and positive out there!

Great post!
Thank you from a fellow Gts owner.
I find Captain's posts very informative as well.

[VCP]

I second and third this!

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Great post!
Thank you from a fellow Gts owner.
I find Captain's posts very informative as well.

Originally Posted by kevinlpl

Captain,

Please continue to post and share your observations, experiences and videos. As another GTS owner (and Porsche GT3 owner), who drives, instructs and participates in amateur Racing with NASA (in Spec E46), I find your posts interesting and informative.

As a driver most of us know that results in any car, on any given day, with any given driver vary greatly. My practice times at 8 am may be faster than my qualifying times at 11 am on stickers, from the OAT rising 20 degrees. So I take all posted results with a grain of salt.

For the money, whether MSRP, or at some of the reduced prices I am seeing for new and used GTSs, it is a lot of car for the money. I have owned more and less expensive rides in the past, but I continue to find the GTS a really well sorted car, for what it is and what it does. My single complaint with the car is the narrow clearance between the front wheel barrel and the caliper, as small rocks are caught and machine the wheel.

I would not doubt that on the right day with the right driver, an M3 CP could be dramatically faster than a GTS. Example: I instruct for PCA, Sometimes I use my Ford Raptor Truck as an Instruction Tool, sometimes I use my daughters E36 bone stock M3, and I'm waving Porsche Turbos, out of the way! Clearly they "should" be way faster. (this is actually a lot of fun!) My purpose though, is not to embarrass, but to instruct.

Whatever car you are in, get it to the track and learn, have fun, and do it safely. I hope everyone keeps posting videos, whatever the results.

Personally I just find the insulting to be rather childish. Lets keep it upbeat and positive out there!

[Bashful]

Originally Posted by VCP

I second and third this!

I fourth it VCP!!!!!

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Wow, this entire thread has gotten hosed

But a magazine still says the M3 is faster, so...trollfest!

CanAut, I'd say leave it be...it's entertaining, but sad at this point...

[Mthrice]

GTS is a cool looking car for sure Not sure it's worth the extra money, but exclusivity has something to do with that.

Has anyone put down a time at Buttonwillow 13 in their stock GTS? Just looking for a reference point.

Thanks

[KKSigs]

Captain Unknown GT4 I too appreciate your posts so keep the information coming.

As any forum take all the info for what it is and make your own decision to use it or not.

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Mthrice

GTS is a cool looking car for sure Not sure it's worth the extra money, but exclusivity has something to do with that.

Has anyone put down a time at Buttonwillow 13 in their stock GTS? Just looking for a reference point.

Thanks

1:42.1 at MRLS in stock GTS for comparison (not what you're asking but I saw a time in your sig).
Disclaimer: I'm not a professional nor a professionally trained driver. With coaching and or a better driver the time would drop dramatically IMO. Certainly lower than the published 1:36 by MT, again based on my perspective.

[Mthrice]

Originally Posted by BarryB

1:42.1 at MRLS in stock GTS for comparison (not what you're asking but I saw a time in your sig).
Disclaimer: I'm not a professional nor a professionally trained driver. With coaching and or a better driver the time would drop dramatically IMO. Certainly lower than the published 1:36 by MT, again based on my perspective.

Thanks for that comparison! That's a good time , took me three trips with the GT-R {500hp}and r-comps to get 1:41, and im just a weekend driver too.

Obviously faster than a stock or comp package M3/4, and just way cooler in every way

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

I think in this case the added weight would be offset by massively increased traction.

Weight is not good on a race track. Increased weight does not increase traction, but requires more traction from the tires to maintain the same turning radius. So in effect, additional weight decreases traction.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Did forget to say Thanks for the support guys✌️

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Here Is this years timeattack times on this track where my stock M4 GTS did 1.25.85.



Remember all cars in time attack got agressive R compound (plenty run trofeo - R pirelli)
/ camber and most cars got up to 600-650hp. And they are light(most cars got no interior at all, like a race car) and prepp for timeattack. Your average 997 turbo here got 600hp and 3 ways racesuspension pirelli tires/camber etc.etc. Cars In Top position are like racecars.

Just to get It out one more time, a stock M4 CP will never ever get close to even a M4 GTS here. But for sure a 100% stock M4 GTS could go sub 1.25 here If you got little fuel and drop the rideheight lower down than Bmw M factory track setting. Not bad for a car at 1610kg full fuel no driver. Put on pirelli tire and get a propper test done In what camber / chassie setting Is optimal and you could maybee see a low 24.

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

No matter the track, long or short M4 CP Is way off the pace of a M4 GTS, way off!!

M3/4 CP and M2, Jesus ... Its like 3 race series below In terms of laptimes. Its so far of Its accually weird to read somthing like this BMW blogg.

At this 3.1km track I do 1.25-26

Times In stock M4 GTS. Dream on, M3 CP and M2 no comptition for M4 GTS...what ever track.

I been 2 Times now with M4 GTS. They drive time attack series here and belive me no M3/4 CP or M2 stock will never ever post 1.25 laps here.

[rosenbergendo]

GTS is slower than 991.2 GTS let alone GT3. Not even close.