Video: M3/M4 Review by Steve Sutcliffe (Autocar)

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

Hmmm from the post above will the F8x be able to beat a new Porsche gt2 in a straight line?

Just remember the throttle will be more linear and there will be audible feedback telling you where you are in the rev range. So roll down the windows and downshift as much as possible. I wonder what the S55 sounds like from the vert.

I'll prob just wait until someone trades or returns their F80 from lease after LCI... There are so many cars coming on the horizon.

I doubt it will beat the next generation (991) GT2. The 997 GT2 had these performance figures:

0–100 km/h: 3.5 s
0–200 km/h: 9.8 s
0-30 mph: 1.2 s
0-60 mph: 3.3 s
0-100 mph: 7.4 s
0-150 mph: 15.9 s
0-186 mph: 34.0 s
1/4 mile: 11.3 s 209.46 km/h (130.2 mph)

I doubt the 991 GT2 will be slower than the 997 GT2...

BTW, the GT2 is the turbocharged brother to the GT3, built by the motorsport division at Porsche (but you knew that right?)

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

Hmmm from the post above will the F8x be able to beat a new Porsche gt2 in a straight line?

Just remember the throttle will be more linear and there will be audible feedback telling you where you are in the rev range. So roll down the windows and downshift as much as possible. I wonder what the S55 sounds like from the vert.

I'll prob just wait until someone trades or returns their F80 from lease after LCI... There are so many cars coming on the horizon.

Huh? NOTHING bmw makes will even come close to a 997 GT2 let alone what the 991 GT2 will be. The GT2 is a 130 mph trap speed car and is as fast or faster than a Carrera GT on or off the track. The m3/4 in 20 years won't touch the performance figures of the 997 GT2. Completely different planets these cars are on.

Lets put this into grater perspective. The current f80 m3/4 won't even be able to keep up with a 20 year old 993 GT2, never mind anything newer.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I doubt it will beat the next generation (991) GT2. The 997 GT2 had these performance figures:

0–100 km/h: 3.5 s
0–200 km/h: 9.8 s
0-30 mph: 1.2 s
0-60 mph: 3.3 s
0-100 mph: 7.4 s
0-150 mph: 15.9 s
0-186 mph: 34.0 s
1/4 mile: 11.3 s 209.46 km/h (130.2 mph)

I doubt the 991 GT2 will be slower than the 997 GT2...

BTW, the GT2 is the turbocharged brother to the GT3, built by the motorsport division at Porsche (but you knew that right?)

The m3/4 will be a 116 mph trap speed car and likely barely break into the 7 mins range (7:5x) for the Ring. It cannot even be mentioned in the same breath as the GT2. As I said above in 20 years the m3 won't touch those performance figures let alone the current car. Where do people come up with these silly comparos?? It's clear the knowledge on the GT2 just wasn't there.

[bmwm3redblack]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

British reviews are extremely biased lately because they have to push their products forward : like the new jag f type..which from the distance looks apealing but onece you touch it seems to be built in a barn ready to fall apart...now back to buisness: when youre 16-20 years old you may want the thrill of a NA engine sound and that last rpm urge when NA engine enters the intake resonance area for which it was tuned and sudenly increases Volumetric efficiency...but that is just show with no go...this is what all NA cars and M3 including e9x feelt to me..up to 4000 was nada for a 2000kg car with 2 passengers and a full tank..any 3liter diesel would spank me on autobahn up tu the 250km/h speed governor..it only did something betwen 6000 and 8000...wtf?!?!..they fianally adresed the wishes ow european owners..more power down low(aka torque down in rpm band). People make great confusion betwen intake tract pitch and tone change and rpm rate of change when pressing the throttle.. the sound change is mutted with a turbo as explained in the developemend video..m3 has never had a special sound as a 430 460 458 gt3. C63....so for me is not important(it sounds good enough..and can be tailored with a exhaust if needed) i ll take the go instead of sound.to much drift in this video..you can get a gt86 if you want to drift all day long..i want traction, and this is where m3 always lacked..50/50 mass distribuition is not enough for traction..is good for changing direction and balance..so i hope this is something they solved.the last comment is dumb in the video...what do you expect? It is turbo it pulls over a 6000rpm range not just last 1000rpm that is why it doesent feel so at at the topend.who needs a peaky engine?!? To do what with it? Scare kids?..you need poweband to smak the other supercars..and on a trackday...Well done BMW...
ps.is this the "throttle responce" you'll all miss?

I agree with some things you wrote, but i can't understand how can we compare turbo 911 to m3 e92 in terms of rolling speed strait forward????

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Better review so far, as expected from Sutcliffe. Holding it till I see Chris Harris reviews it and German Sport Auto delivers their Super Test.

However, it seems that there is one thing missing from the car and that is the thrills not the numbers, performance or efficiency. I really hoped that it would surprise everyone to the point that I would be eager to 'upgrade' my 1M despite my dislike of bigger cars. One particular reason is I am very curious to see how the spirit of 1M as a test mule for future M cars, ended up in a 'final product' in this M3/M4 or if it would be 'much better' just because they had the time and resources and designed the whole car from scratch as a unit. But, I admit that I have mixed feelings after reading or watching all these reviews. Where is all the excitement of the reviewers that 1M enjoyed 3 years ago or some other M cars did in the past?

A side note: I don't think it sounds bad from outside; I am not a fan of the inside amplified sound thing and yes some N54 equipped cars were sounding better than this, including most aftermarket exhausts for the 1M. Hopefully, there will be fixes for that but if BMW has planned some extra profit by betting that most will eventually go for a M Performance exhaust it really is not the correct policy to launch a new M3, imho!

If I recall correctly, Sutcliffe was never a huge fan of the 1M either. He seems to be a very by the numbers guy who doesn't really factor things like fun and excitement into his reviews.

I'll wait for the Chris Harris review. I trust Chris to be honest, unbiased and give a genuine appraisal of the car and to frame it in terms of it's predecessors and competitors. Also, when Harris drifts the car laughing maniacally, you know he actually means it. I've noticed that Sutcliffe and a few others have started imitating Harris in this regard, and they just don't come across as being genuine.

I guess as owners of M cars WITH turbocharged engines, we are less likely to get worked up about that aspect. The slight lag in the 1M doesn't bother me at all on or off track. The mid range makes the car simply amazing on the daily drive and lighting up the rears in 4th never gets old.

Finally, it's a bit strange (not unexpected but strange) to see all the 335i/is comparisons (they do seem to pop up every time a new M model is announced/reviewed). I had the chance to assess the 1M and a 335is back to back (actually drove the 335is for a couple of weeks) and the cars are day and night. The is does sound amazing but it's also heavy, has much slower steering and rides like all 4 wheels are made of hardened concrete (yes, it had run flats but that's what's standard). Sound effects aside (which can be very easily fixed with a new exchaust) the F80 M's will be in a league of their own.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by b33g33

If I recall correctly, Sutcliffe was never a huge fan of the 1M either. He seems to be a very by the numbers guy who doesn't really factor things like fun and excitement into his reviews.

Don't agree with this at all. Sutcliffe is definitely one of the better reviews out there. Sutcliffe has some really good reviews on other cars, he does a great balance of technical and personal feel of the vehicle. Harris reviews have just become useless drifting exercises, I blame the Drive network for that. Dickie Meaden with Evo does some very good reviews as well.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Don't agree with this at all. Sutcliffe is definitely one of the better reviews out there. Sutcliffe has some really good reviews on other cars, he does a great balance of technical and personal feel of the vehicle. Harris reviews have just become useless drifting exercises, I blame the Drive network for that. Dickie Meaden with Evo does some very good reviews as well.

I agree with you on Meaden. Evo still has some of the best journos out there including Catchpole, Bovigdon and Meaden.

We can agree to disagree on Harris and Sutcliffe.

Yes, Harris drifts the cars a lot, but he also provides a more detailed, well considered opinion on how each car would be like to live with. Also, I appreciate the fact that he owns/ed a number of very gearhead worthy cars including the GT3 RS and the E28 M5.

[Maxlimit]

Amazing sound!!!!!!!

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by b33g33

If I recall correctly, Sutcliffe was never a huge fan of the 1M either. He seems to be a very by the numbers guy who doesn't really factor things like fun and excitement into his reviews.

I'll wait for the Chris Harris review. I trust Chris to be honest, unbiased and give a genuine appraisal of the car and to frame it in terms of it's predecessors and competitors. Also, when Harris drifts the car laughing maniacally, you know he actually means it. I've noticed that Sutcliffe and a few others have started imitating Harris in this regard, and they just don't come across as being genuine.

I guess as owners of M cars WITH turbocharged engines, we are less likely to get worked up about that aspect. The slight lag in the 1M doesn't bother me at all on or off track. The mid range makes the car simply amazing on the daily drive and lighting up the rears in 4th never gets old.

Finally, it's a bit strange (not unexpected but strange) to see all the 335i/is comparisons (they do seem to pop up every time a new M model is announced/reviewed). I had the chance to assess the 1M and a 335is back to back (actually drove the 335is for a couple of weeks) and the cars are day and night. The is does sound amazing but it's also heavy, has much slower steering and rides like all 4 wheels are made of hardened concrete (yes, it had run flats but that's what's standard). Sound effects aside (which can be very easily fixed with a new exchaust) the F80 M's will be in a league of their own.

While I agree with the rest, I can't say the same about your Sutcliffe comment; he is among the few who speaks his mind imho. And he was a huge 1M fan, he did the autocar video review at the end of their time with 1M, as a long term test. Essentially, he had nothing negative to say about the 1M, only praise and admiration:

[claudiumxg]

Originally Posted by bmwm3redblack

I agree with some things you wrote, but i can't understand how can we compare turbo 911 to m3 e92 in terms of rolling speed strait forward????

it was just a way to show the fact that throttle responce on e9x m3 is overrated...and won't be missed..the new one is almost as fast as a 997 Turbo btw.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

While I agree with the rest, I can't say the same about your Sutcliffe comment; he is among the few who speaks his mind imho. And he was a huge 1M fan, he did the autocar video review at the end of their time with 1M, as a long term test. Essentially, he had nothing negative to say about the 1M, only praise and admiration:

My bad. I guess I had Sutcliffe's 1M review confused with someone elses'!

[viobruin]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Don't agree with this at all. Sutcliffe is definitely one of the better reviews out there. Sutcliffe has some really good reviews on other cars, he does a great balance of technical and personal feel of the vehicle. Harris reviews have just become useless drifting exercises, I blame the Drive network for that. Dickie Meaden with Evo does some very good reviews as well.

I agree. Sutcliffe's criticism in this review is not based on the numbers but, rather, whether the car is exciting or not. For purposes of this review, at least, seems like he's doing what people are claiming he's not - i.e., he's reviewing the fun and excitement of the car and not basing it purely on the numbers.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by b33g33

If I recall correctly, Sutcliffe was never a huge fan of the 1M either. He seems to be a very by the numbers guy who doesn't really factor things like fun and excitement into his reviews.

I'll wait for the Chris Harris review. I trust Chris to be honest, unbiased and give a genuine appraisal of the car and to frame it in terms of it's predecessors and competitors. Also, when Harris drifts the car laughing maniacally, you know he actually means it. I've noticed that Sutcliffe and a few others have started imitating Harris in this regard, and they just don't come across as being genuine.

I guess as owners of M cars WITH turbocharged engines, we are less likely to get worked up about that aspect. The slight lag in the 1M doesn't bother me at all on or off track. The mid range makes the car simply amazing on the daily drive and lighting up the rears in 4th never gets old.

Finally, it's a bit strange (not unexpected but strange) to see all the 335i/is comparisons (they do seem to pop up every time a new M model is announced/reviewed). I had the chance to assess the 1M and a 335is back to back (actually drove the 335is for a couple of weeks) and the cars are day and night. The is does sound amazing but it's also heavy, has much slower steering and rides like all 4 wheels are made of hardened concrete (yes, it had run flats but that's what's standard). Sound effects aside (which can be very easily fixed with a new exchaust) the F80 M's will be in a league of their own.

I gather that you have not seen Sufcliffe's reviews of the 918, P1, and LaFerrari?
With LaFerrari he was gushing on about "emotions", and the sound of the V12 and how the car felt like a supernatural 458.

He has a different opinion. I really like Chris Harris, but it seems like people are waitin for what he says because the reviews so far have been "good car, bad sound", and people want or wish that to be untrue.
What if Chris says the same thing? Then what? Then is he wrong?
I believe Chris Harris will like the car, especially the torque, but he will hate the sound, or lack thereof, and the Active Sound issue. Just like he called out Ferrari for it's issues, he may call out BMW M for some things.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

it was just a way to show the fact that throttle responce on e9x m3 is overrated...and won't be missed..the new one is almost as fast as a 997 Turbo btw.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by bmwm3redblack

I agree with some things you wrote, but i can't understand how can we compare turbo 911 to m3 e92 in terms of rolling speed strait forward????

Not sure what that video is suppose to argue.

[BQTuning]

Sorry this video was just absolutely boring after couple of drifts which was great on the introduction

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

it was just a way to show the fact that throttle responce on e9x m3 is overrated...and won't be missed..the new one is almost as fast as a 997 Turbo btw.

Huh?

The new m3 isn't even close. Even a 997 turbo trapped 128 mph. Nothing bmw makes could keep pace with one. And that car is close to 10 years old.

Get real.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Huh?

The new m3 isn't even close. Even a 997 turbo trapped 128 mph. Nothing bmw makes could keep pace with one. And that car is close to 10 years old.

Get real.

He got me when he said this

new jag f type..which from the distance looks apealing but onece you touch it seems to be built in a barn ready to fall apart

Having been up close and sat in the new F Type, I can tell you that this is not true.

[claudiumxg]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

He got me when he said this


Having been up close and sat in the new F Type, I can tell you that this is not true.

What?!?!? You must be joking right?
.take a look at plastic interior trims ..how they fit near the sill and seatbelt area..not to mention the rear boot lid how poorly is aligned...is pathetic. How many jags have you owned? Do you have them constantly in your shop for repairs to be able to apreciate how poor are they built?
It seems that many people do not understand the idea of in gear acelleration, only 0-400m and trap speed.0-400m doesn't tell you to much about elasticity of the engine, which is what the v8 did not have ..is too peaky. If you would dtive it on autobahn and that take for a ride a 3.0tdi biturbo you would understand what i mean, and this is what they have finally corected

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

What?!?!? You must be joking right?
.take a look at plastic interior trims ..how they fit near the sill and seatbelt area..not to mention the rear boot lid how poorly is aligned...is pathetic. How many jags have you owned? Do you have them constantly in your shop for repairs to be able to apreciate how poor are they built?
It seems that many people do not understand the idea of in gear acelleration, only 0-400m and trap speed.0-400m doesn't tell you to much about elasticity of the engine, which is what the v8 did not have ..is too peaky. If you would dtive it on autobahn and that take for a ride a 3.0tdi biturbo you would understand what i mean, and this is what they have finally corected

Either way, nothing BMW has is touching a 911 turbo. Even a 997 turbo S bone stock is faster than a stage 4 m6 that has 700+ hp.

[claudiumxg]

Of course they are no match...but you get the idea what the turbo engine brings to the table..
ps. I just did a 997 a few weeks ago..so i kind of know how it goes ), and this new s55 engine will shurely be easyer to mood compared to s65 NA

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

and this new s55 engine will shurely be easyer to mood compared to s65 NA

Is this news to anyone, it is turbo charged.

You will just have to wait, because the new ecu is going to be a bitch to crack. The M5 ecu is still not cracked.