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07-21-2014, 11:20 AM | #89 |
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Good reminder of what a "sharp" car look like. It's what some of us are looking for in an M3 slightly sanitized for the road. We've no doubt moved too far from that today and while the weight reduction in the M4 is welcome it's just not enough and than all other electronics etc filtering out way too much communication. The M4 act like a GT car here.
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07-21-2014, 12:43 PM | #90 |
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07-21-2014, 12:57 PM | #91 | |
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This isn't the E30 M3 road car versus the F80 M3, this is the E30 M3 DTM car. I guarantee you that if you saw a video of the E30 M3 (road version) go head to head with the DTM car, every one of your comments would apply.
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07-21-2014, 07:55 PM | #92 |
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Comparison times:
BMW E46 M3 CSL —————————————— 1:13.5 min BMW 1M —— ————————————– 1:14.1 min BMW M3 V8 E92 ————————————– 1:14.3 min (R compound tires) Audi TT-RS Coupe ————————————– 1:14.3 min BMW M6 ————————————————– 1:14.4 min BMW M3 V8 E90 ————————————– 1:14.6 min (R compound tires) Alpina B6 S —————————————- 1:14.8 min BMW M3 E46 ———————————————- 1:16.3 min BMW M5 E60 ——————————————— 1:16.5 min BMW Z4 M Roadster ———————————– 1:16.7 min BMW sDrive 35i Roadster ———————————– 1:16.6 min BMW 335i E90, facelift ————————————– 1:17.0 min BMW Z4M Coupe ——————————————— 1:17.2 min BMW 135i ————————————————— 1:17.4 min BMW M5 E39 ———————————————— 1:17.6 min Source: http://www.bimmerfile.com/2011/04/23...at-hockenheim/ |
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07-21-2014, 10:06 PM | #93 |
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I know what car it is. I also know the E30 very well, I owned two. It's almost 30 years ago the E30 M3 was conceived. That's an eternity in car evolution. Most car manufacturers sportiest offerings surpasses their race cars of that era in most aspects. Sharpness is not one of them when it comes to the E30 DTM vs. the M4 and it's a pity IMO. The difference is enormous as you can see in this video in favour of the old E30 DTM car. Bigger than it has to be IMO.
Last edited by solstice; 07-21-2014 at 10:13 PM.. |
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07-22-2014, 04:52 AM | #94 |
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For a race car E30 is bigger than it has to be. It makes it less sharp and slow compared to my favorite race car of the time, BMW F1.
Last edited by jippii ensio; 07-22-2014 at 08:32 AM.. |
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07-23-2014, 12:47 AM | #96 | |
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That being said I would purchase the F80 because it truly is a DD that is a sledgehammer, it does it well. I liked the new rack and the steering was excellent, much better than the F06 or f30. Truth be told the Jag isn't without flaws either, but it's a huge car with lots of room, a world class interior and everyone loves a whining positive displacement SC V8 I hope I cleared that up, I'm not a troll in the least, I actually had discussed with Karussell in trading my 1M in for a F80, but decided against it. I'm intrigued to see what the LCI and ZCP brings! |
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07-23-2014, 03:51 AM | #97 | ||
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In the article about this test/comparison (in the latest edition of Sport Auto) they say the following about the tested cars std passive suspension (loosely translated): Quote:
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07-23-2014, 05:23 AM | #98 | |
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In the article in the magazine there is no mention of the E30 M3 DTM being driven by Cecotto (it was driven by him in 1992 though)... In fact the article, written by Gebhardt, describes how the two cars are different from the drivers seat. How they feel and compare during the session. He also talks about being told not to exceed 8750rpm, but still goes past 9000rpm during the lap... (they revved over 10000rpm in race trim back in the days). The car is owned by a former M engineer, working on the engine development of the S14 and on the DTM engines. As far as I can tell, Gebhardt drove both cars. EDIT: Came home from work and looked up the article again. On the lap comparison chart they state that the driver was Christian Gebhardt. He definitely was the driver in both cars. Last edited by Boss330; 07-23-2014 at 09:20 AM.. |
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07-23-2014, 05:27 AM | #99 | |
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Like a Formula 1 car? (either Williams BMW or Sauber BMW? Or are you referring to the old F1 cars from the '80ies that had the BMW turbo engine?) Can't really compare a F1 car to a touring car... |
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07-23-2014, 08:03 AM | #100 |
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Obviously you haven't been paying attention
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07-23-2014, 09:26 AM | #101 | ||
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Cecotto was the original driver of the E30 M3 DTM in 1992 but did NOT drive it on June 12th 2014 (the day they did the laps in the video). Not sure where the poster who claimed it was Cecotto driving had his info from. |
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07-23-2014, 09:38 AM | #102 | |
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They had been driving the cars in the morning (in traffic) and had the 1 hour lunch break to do these videos and set the times. This was definitely not his first lap in the F80. He is probably experienced enough, both on the track and with the car, to know which gear is best at which point on the track (he's done hundreds of lap on that track). The F80 M3 time of 1:13.1 is only 0,3s slower than the M4 DCT time from the Supertest (the M3 time was set in 35 deg C temp and the M4 Supertest time was set in much cooler 19 deg C temp). That he can set a time in a 6MT car that is only 0,3s slower than the M4 DCT time (and in hotter climate) proves that he can't be that bad of a driver... The Supertest time was set by Horst von Saurma Last edited by Boss330; 07-23-2014 at 09:46 AM.. |
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07-23-2014, 10:25 AM | #103 | |
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For anyone unfamiliar, Horst von Saurma is no slouch either. He's a ring legend as well, holding many production car lap records there.
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07-23-2014, 12:08 PM | #104 | |
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07-23-2014, 01:02 PM | #105 | |
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07-25-2014, 04:27 AM | #108 |
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I see your point. Similarly, can't really compare a race car to a street car the way people compare in this thread.
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07-25-2014, 05:31 AM | #109 |
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07-25-2014, 05:36 AM | #110 |
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Well, Johnny Cecotto qualyfied in 7th place in the 1992 race with a 1:03,86 time. More than 5s quicker than what they managed in 2014...
(they did have a bit less HP and narrower Dunlop tires in 2014 compared to the Michelin tires from 1992) |
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