New car - paint preservation? (oil/wax/coat)

[Takumi587]

I honestly don't notice any difference between using sealant/wax and ceramic coating which my buddy put on his car.

If you want your car's paint to last then it has to be garaged at all times, never left in the sun for long periods, and washed/waxed on a monthly basis with good products. No product can truly protect the car from the sun so I really stress keeping it out of the sun especially when washing it. The sun's rays is what will cause dirt, slime, bird poop etc. adhere more to the paint of your car and damage it.

Save your money and just buy Chemical guys jet sealant and a wax of your preference. Maybe buy a clay bar with a spray lubricant for future use especially if it is your daily driver. I used to detail cars and I can tell you from experience most of the stuff right now on the market is all hype.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

I honestly don't notice any difference between using sealant/wax and ceramic coating which my buddy put on his car.

If you want your car's paint to last then it has to be garaged at all times, never left in the sun for long periods, and washed/waxed on a monthly basis with good products. No product can truly protect the car from the sun so I really stress keeping it out of the sun especially when washing it. The sun's rays is what will cause dirt, slime, bird poop etc. adhere more to the paint of your car and damage it.

Save your money and just buy Chemical guys jet sealant and a wax of your preference. Maybe buy a clay bar with a spray lubricant for future use especially if it is your daily driver. I used to detail cars and I can tell you from experience most of the stuff right now on the market is all hype.

What, lol. Ceramic Coating is 10x better than any wax or sealant. Chemical brothers has decent stuff, but there is better stuff for cheaper.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by sersbuaM

PPF scares me as it's mostly not wrapped around the edges and they cut ‚on the paint'. And still no warranty no chip will occur. It surely depends on your driving style, too. I have the Autobahn to my disposal and i tend to drive maxed out there... everything i heard was to forget about PPF in this case. So everything that's left (after embracing the fact that there WILL be chips) is the shininess and water perlation. But is this really worth the effort? I don't want to say i'm on a budget, but i could lower the car, add a nice lip, some mirror caps and maybe another steering wheel for the amount - making it a tough one.

A good installer will wrap the edges and not cut the PPF on the paint. You just have to do your research and find a good installer. It shouldn't be too expensive to do high impact areas like the front bumper and hood. Depends if you can live with rocks chips and consider respraying down the line.

[drgmt]

Actually wrapping followed by ceramic coating over the wrap is a great idea.

[radiofrequency]

Originally Posted by Absurdium

If you do a complete hood and bumper, aesthetic disadvantages are minimal. As long as you go to a skilled detailer, they will tuck all the edges underneath the emblems, hood edges, and crevices. I'd recommend doing a full bumper, full hood, partial a pillar and partial fender to protect against rock chips. I got a chip on the way to the detailer after delivery so I don't want to take any chances lol.

On top of that, I got CQuartz applied not necessarily to protect, but it makes the car looks much glossier. It does add another layer of coat so it'll get rid of most of the swirls you have and help resist future swirls, provided that your detailer do the job properly of course.

This, prior to Clear Bra have your paint corrected, you will be shocked at how good it will look. My Detailer gets new cars directly from the Dealer, sometimes still wrapped with shipping material, and it's still an 8 hour paint correction. There is no point in clear bra unless you do a paint correction first, well there is a point as your pant will still be protected with the clear bra, but seeing as you have invested in an Individual color, why not go the whole way: Paint Correction, Clear Bra, Coating (I like Modesta and Kamikaze - coat your wheels too!).

[JibSTir13]

If you're going all in, then the following should be done:

1. Paint Correction (this entails multiple steps)
   
2. PPF (a skilled installer will custom cut the film and edge wrap everything)
   
3. Ceramic Coat (there is a difference between consumer and professional grade ceramic coatings, as well as the various types of coatings. In addition, some coatings do not need cure time, others need to be cured under UV lighting.)

The most important element in all this is the installer.

Ceramic coated cars should not be waxed monthly, or ever. You can apply Reload (or similar product depending on the coating used) every 6 months to a year - it works like a detail spray and is significantly less time consuming than waxing the entire car. Or taking the car to your detailer for a decontamination wash every 6 months to a year is another alternative. Not necessary but it will prolong the life of the coating and keep the hydrophobic quality at its best.

Ultimately it depends on your budget, what you are trying to achieve, and how much time you are willing to spend maintaining the paint. As someone said, keeping the car indoors (especially overnight and when parked for longed periods (such as at work)) and a regular and proper wash routine are essential no matter what you do.

[TJ_18]

Hi all,

I just got my 2018 AW M3 couple days ago. Looking for suggestion from experienced members on a recommended detailing location around the San Gabriel Valley area.

I'm looking to get the PPF done.

Thanks!

[Sassicaia]

Originally Posted by Graves

What, lol. Ceramic Coating is 10x better than any wax or sealant. Chemical brothers has decent stuff, but there is better stuff for cheaper.

Give specifics. How?

Aside from maybe not having to apply it as often as a sealant give a measurable example of how its better let alone "10x"?

[Graves]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Give specifics. How?

Aside from maybe not having to apply it as often as a sealant give a measurable example of how its better let alone "10x"?

It's protective properties to include its ability to bead water and actually have a hard shell like protection is far better. Run a waxed car through a car wash a few times and the wax is gone. Ceramic Coating is good for years. Ask any real detailer, CC is far superior to any wax or sealant. CQuartz is great but wax is so over rated. There are many spray on products now that protect better than wax. Come on dude, if you were supposedly a detailer you would know this.

[Sassicaia]

Originally Posted by Graves

It's protective properties to include its ability to bead water

So does my Sonax paint sealant. It wouldn't be possible for water to bead any better. Water literally rolls off the car with just the force of turning the car, or excellerating.

Originally Posted by Graves

and actually have a hard shell like protection is far better.

Im sorry but im going to call BS on this. You either have PPF to protect your car from a scratch or you don't. Are you suggesting that a ceramic could protect your car from a simply common rock chip better then a sealant? I have news for you - neither can do that.

Originally Posted by Graves

Run a waxed car through a car wash a few times and the wax is gone. Ceramic Coating is good for years.

As I said before I agree the one benefit I can see from a ceramic coat vs a sealant is you don't have to apply it as much. That said let me do some math here. My Sonax Polymer Net Shield last 6 months with each coat, and I can get 4 coats with one full can that costs me about $60.

Sealant $60 = 2 years worth of protection
Ceramic $2500 = 10 years of protection

Ceramic costs you $2,200 more over a ten year period. Granted you wouldn't have to apply the sealant 20x over the 10 year period (assuming Ceramic performs 10 years with no additional maintenance).

Originally Posted by Graves

Ask any real detailer, CC is far superior to any wax or sealant.

You mean the guys that want charge you $2,500 for a coating? Until there is more measurable proof ceramic does anything significantly more then a quality sealant I just dont see the value. PPF is the only way to protect your car from scratches and rock chips. The rest just provides shine, ease of cleaning and water beading.

Originally Posted by Graves

CQuartz is great but wax is so over rated. There are many spray on products now that protect better than wax. Come on dude, if you were supposedly a detailer you would know this.

I agree there are many spray products out there better than wax. I never professed to be a detailer, but I do believe when you cut through the marketing ceramic coatings you arnt left with much more then what a sealant offers besides the benefit of not having to add additional applications.

[Sassicaia]

on more point. For those of you who would consider ceramic + PPF for the front have of the car at $2500 my advice would be to PPF the whole car for the same price and just seal it a couple times a year. You'll get actual protection and shine for the whole car.

[sersbuaM]

Whoa, this thread really is a good read, so many opinions!

What I still can't get my head around is that we already have the protective clear coat on our cars, yet we wrap it in another layer of plastic and on top of that, to counter the resulting dulling we layer two to nine coats of plastic on top - still, no guaranteed protection.

A good example is this: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1458783

Not only do we get chips which need corrective attention, we have to replace the coat(s) as well - so at some point we need to think about repainting a whole part anyhow. I fear that it may be quite an expensive journey up to that point.

I totally get the benefit of the hydrophobic effect on the paint, that is nice to have. Apart from that - it'll take many years for a weekend toy stored in a dark and dry garage to have a massive degradation of paint quality.

Long story short, I will wait this year to see how much the paint degrades/gets chipped. I'm sure the first times out after breaking in with >150mph will rapidly show some high speed impacts (that a PPF can't catch as well). For the winter I may make it a priority to reevaluate the situation and maybe take some measures.

Until then I'll hand wash and check out the mass-market sealants available.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

on more point. For those of you who would consider ceramic + PPF for the front have of the car at $2500 my advice would be to PPF the whole car for the same price and just seal it a couple times a year. You'll get actual protection and shine for the whole car.

Whole car PPF is more like $5-8k depending on film and installer. Like I said I think the best bang for buck is getting PPF on high impact areas then coat the entire thing. The bulk of the cost is prep and PPF. I actually did spend $2500 and I got PPF on full front bumper, full hood, full roof, spoiler, trunk luggage areas, mirrors, B pillars, partial front and rear fenders following by coating over everything. Worth it for me since I don't have paint polishing supplies and I am slow at washing it takes me like 3 hours to do the whole car and it's getting old.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by sersbuaM

Whoa, this thread really is a good read, so many opinions!

What I still can't get my head around is that we already have the protective clear coat on our cars, yet we wrap it in another layer of plastic and on top of that, to counter the resulting dulling we layer two to nine coats of plastic on top - still, no guaranteed protection.

A good example is this: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1458783

Not only do we get chips which need corrective attention, we have to replace the coat(s) as well - so at some point we need to think about repainting a whole part anyhow. I fear that it may be quite an expensive journey up to that point.

I totally get the benefit of the hydrophobic effect on the paint, that is nice to have. Apart from that - it'll take many years for a weekend toy stored in a dark and dry garage to have a massive degradation of paint quality.

Long story short, I will wait this year to see how much the paint degrades/gets chipped. I'm sure the first times out after breaking in with >150mph will rapidly show some high speed impacts (that a PPF can't catch as well). For the winter I may make it a priority to reevaluate the situation and maybe take some measures.

Until then I'll hand wash and check out the mass-market sealants available.

Just don't go over 35, lmao

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

So does my Sonax paint sealant. It wouldn't be possible for water to bead any better. Water literally rolls off the car with just the force of turning the car, or excellerating.



Im sorry but im going to call BS on this. You either have PPF to protect your car from a scratch or you don't. Are you suggesting that a ceramic could protect your car from a simply common rock chip better then a sealant? I have news for you - neither can do that.



As I said before I agree the one benefit I can see from a ceramic coat vs a sealant is you don't have to apply it as much. That said let me do some math here. My Sonax Polymer Net Shield last 6 months with each coat, and I can get 4 coats with one full can that costs me about $60.

Sealant $60 = 2 years worth of protection
Ceramic $2500 = 10 years of protection

Ceramic costs you $2,200 more over a ten year period. Granted you wouldn't have to apply the sealant 20x over the 10 year period (assuming Ceramic performs 10 years with no additional maintenance).



You mean the guys that want charge you $2,500 for a coating? Until there is more measurable proof ceramic does anything significantly more then a quality sealant I just dont see the value. PPF is the only way to protect your car from scratches and rock chips. The rest just provides shine, ease of cleaning and water beading.



I agree there are many spray products out there better than wax. I never professed to be a detailer, but I do believe when you cut through the marketing ceramic coatings you arnt left with much more then what a sealant offers besides the benefit of not having to add additional applications.

The biggest factor you are forgetting...whats your time worth?
And for the 2500, you are forgetting there is the paint correction included prior to the coating, which, I am assuming, you cannot do to the level of someone who does it day in and day out.
so if you wanted to compare apples to apples, you can buy a cheaper coating at 60 a bottle and a pint of a sealant for 20. apply the coating once, or the sealant 6-10 times over 18 months. I don't know about you, but 1 time in 2 hours vs 10 times in 10 hours...the 8 hours savings for 40 bucks overall seems worth it...

Another angle to think about

If you make just $50/hr, it will take you 40 hours to recoupe the cost expenses up front @ $2000 for correction and coating. But, its a one and done situation for a long term protection process. Paint correction being 1000+, coating at 1000+. If you elect to do it yourself, its going to take you 2 days time = 800. Plus you have to buy the supplies, 100, so 900 total on the low side. So in fact, it really only cost you 1100 to have someone else do it...

MOST people want the easy maintenance from a coating
MOST people want the better gloss and depth from a coating
MOST people love the hydrophobic effects and knowing there IS a measureable 2-4 micron thick layer of coating protection ON TOP of the clear coat to help KEEP the factory applied clearcoat/UV in tact....that's worth it to MOST people.

Its not for everyone, just like PPF. But to say its pointless, that's just wrong. Maybe you enjoy your car detailing time, that's great, wax on! But for the mass majority of people today, there are other things to do with the time available. Heck, I can do the landscaping in my backyard weekly for a total of 10 hours a month, but for the $100 a month, I will gladly pay someone else to do it because if I were to work those 10 hours instead, I would make more money....or go hang out with my family for those 10 hours and not make money, but make memories.

[W1cKeD DeMoN]

I just purchased my M4 and took it directly from dealer and dropped it off at my detailer. Paint correction, 3 coats of ceramic pro 9H and window tint cost me about $1100. I know it won't prevent rock chips, but the time saved when it comes to maintenance, the ease of washing/drying, etc make the price more than worth it to me.

[ShelJW]

Originally Posted by sersbuaM

PPF scares me as it's mostly not wrapped around the edges and they cut ‚on the paint'. And still no warranty no chip will occur.

I went last week to meet with the gentleman who I've chosen to apply Clear Bra to my new M2.

He's been installing Xpel Clear bra for years, and even makes custom tools that he sells to other installers, which makes certain chores in the process easier (such as removing factory installed clear bra, before applying Xpel)

He has a machine which cuts the Xpel Ultra material to an exact size and shape, for the specific car! He enters on his computer which car he's going to cover, pulling up the template for that specific vehicle, then he enters what parts of the car (front, including bumper, hood, side mirrors, behind front wheels, etc.) he wants to cover (front only, entire car, etc.), loads the sheet material into the machine, and it cuts it precisely, even cutting out for emblems, etc!

There may be some parts of a car he needs to custom cut, but he tells me most cars, the majority of it is cut out precisely before he installs the material!

I'm getting an M2, and they (Xpel) have a template for the M2, as well as all the other M cars, Corvettes, Mustangs, you name it!

Most important part of having PPT installed is choosing the installer carefully!

[maniz]

I am an eternally analytical person so any idea that makes little logical sense gets rejected. I am also a highly fastidious detailer and maintain our family cars. I own my M4, bought it new, and intend to keep it long-term. Yet, I see no value in PPF.

You see, a car's clearcoat isn't immune to damage from road debris, no matter how tiny, as long as it impacts it at speed.

But neither is PPF.

So what happens is, if all you do is get your entire front bumper wrapped in Xpel Ultimate, it sets you back $1,100-$1,700 (where I live) and 3 years later, there are plenty of chips and nicks in it. So your factory paint is protected but the bumper looks like crap anyway. Your choice then is to either leave it as-is, or get it replaced for another $1,200-$1,800 and have the bumper looking pristine again. But you could avoid all that by leaving the bumper as-is now, and getting it re-sprayed by a top body shop with perfect color match and paint thickness for about $800 (again, where I live) 3 years later and end up with a pristine bumper AND sizable savings in your pocket.

All the "self-healing" bullshit is just that. The most-recommended Xpel and Suntek installer I visited locally before my M4 arrived, laughed and shook his head when I asked about self-healing properties of the films. It is the perfect advertising gimmick because it is truly impossible to disprove; any nicks and chips that do happen would be attributed to "well, the velocity of impact was too hard; we never said this film was bulletproof" and any portion that stays nick-free would be, "see how well this thing works?!!!".

PPF also has a distinct disadvantage over clearcoat; it will degrade and yellow over time far quicker than a factory clear. The installer I mentioned above admitted as such as he showed me his white Camaro whose protected front bumper was clearly slightly yellower than his unprotected hood after 10 months, though the guarantee is supposed to be 3-4 times as long at the minimum. Now a manufacturer might say, "But that was then; check out our latest UV proof films!!" To that I would ask them whether it is the same promise they made previously, and the answer is yes.

I meticulously detail my car top-to-bottom twice a week, sometimes more often. I love how it looks. And I would love for it to stay pristine and chip-free, but I also love to drive it. So I know such an expectation would be unrealistic. Therefore, my weapon against chips is the use of common sense. I don't tailgate anyone EVER and am always 4+ seconds behind them, even more so for semis and during the winter months here in Colorado. And when traffic conditions made it impossible, so be it. At least this will protect me about as much as is reasonably possible for a car that begs to be driven the way M's do.

Even so, I know I will need to get the bumper resprayed in 3 years or so, even though I might be the only one noticing the damage. That's fine by me.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by maniz

I am an eternally analytical person so any idea that makes little logical sense gets rejected. I am also a highly fastidious detailer and maintain our family cars. I own my M4, bought it new, and intend to keep it long-term. Yet, I see no value in PPF.

You see, a car's clearcoat isn't immune to damage from road debris, no matter how tiny, as long as it impacts it at speed.

But neither is PPF.

So what happens is, if all you do is get your entire front bumper wrapped in Xpel Ultimate, it sets you back $1,100-$1,700 (where I live) and 3 years later, there are plenty of chips and nicks in it. So your factory paint is protected but the bumper looks like crap anyway. Your choice then is to either leave it as-is, or get it replaced for another $1,200-$1,800 and have the bumper looking pristine again. But you could avoid all that by leaving the bumper as-is now, and getting it re-sprayed by a top body shop with perfect color match and paint thickness for about $800 (again, where I live) 3 years later and end up with a pristine bumper AND sizable savings in your pocket.

All the "self-healing" bullshit is just that. The most-recommended Xpel and Suntek installer I visited locally before my M4 arrived, laughed and shook his head when I asked about self-healing properties of the films. It is the perfect advertising gimmick because it is truly impossible to disprove; any nicks and chips that do happen would be attributed to "well, the velocity of impact was too hard; we never said this film was bulletproof" and any portion that stays nick-free would be, "see how well this thing works?!!!".

PPF also has a distinct disadvantage over clearcoat; it will degrade and yellow over time far quicker than a factory clear. The installer I mentioned above admitted as such as he showed me his white Camaro whose protected front bumper was clearly slightly yellower than his unprotected hood after 10 months, though the guarantee is supposed to be 3-4 times as long at the minimum. Now a manufacturer might say, "But that was then; check out our latest UV proof films!!" To that I would ask them whether it is the same promise they made previously, and the answer is yes.

I meticulously detail my car top-to-bottom twice a week, sometimes more often. I love how it looks. And I would love for it to stay pristine and chip-free, but I also love to drive it. So I know such an expectation would be unrealistic. Therefore, my weapon against chips is the use of common sense. I don't tailgate anyone EVER and am always 4+ seconds behind them, even more so for semis and during the winter months here in Colorado. And when traffic conditions made it impossible, so be it. At least this will protect me about as much as is reasonably possible for a car that begs to be driven the way M's do.

Even so, I know I will need to get the bumper resprayed in 3 years or so, even though I might be the only one noticing the damage. That's fine by me.

I respectfully disagree completely with everything you just said lol

[tropicalypso]

My two pennies...

I opted to have my car coated in Ceramic Pro to make it easier to take care of.

I'm obsessive over having my car look pristine... but I don't have the time to dedicate towards doing a full detail every month.

The coating allows me to have a high gloss finish, with minimal micro scratches, using a simple two bucket wash method + leaf blower.

In short, it buys time.

Regarding PPF, my car is a lease, so I'm accepting the fact that there will be damage over the course of the next three years.

If I had purchased the car, I would seriously consider PPF + Ceramic coating, as it offers the greatest combination of protection.

[moonluv810]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

Ceramic coated cars should not be waxed monthly, or ever. You can apply Reload (or similar product depending on the coating used) every 6 months to a year - it works like a detail spray and is significantly less time consuming than waxing the entire car.

I don't consider myself as an expert detailer, more at an enthusiast level.

I did apply two coats of CQuartz UK within 2 days of delivery of my BSM F80. I did full decontamination and polish prior to the ceramic coating and reload application every other car washes.

I still apply carnauba wax over the ceramic coating and reload combo.
I feel the wax gives the dark paint much deeper black and more glossiness.

Some say wax or sealant over ceramic coating reduces the hydrophobic nature of the coating and attracts more dust (creates static). In my experience, I see no impacts in those by applying a layer of wax. You can see dust on the black paint the minute you drive it out of the garage.

Just sharing my experience and another opinion.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by tropicalypso

In short, it buys time.

This.

Got a newborn on the way and it takes me like 3 hours to wash my car so I know I won't be washing as often. Probably at most once a month if even. The PPF and coating allows me to have peace of mind that I can leave bird crap, bugs, and hard water spots longer on the paint and not obsess about when I can find time to wash the car. Sure I can hire someone but it's hard to find someone to trust to pay attention to detail as much as I do.