Competition Package - Yes or No?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That R&T article is incomplete. I agree with their points about how softer springs improve grip. However, there is an important reason beyond aerodynamics why a stiffer suspension is beneficial. It is about handling response, as I mentioned previously. Otherwise, why does a Corvette have stiffer suspensions than a Camry?

Good point.

As far as handling response goes there is definitely a sweet spot. Certainly a stiffly strung Corvette will have better handling response than a softly sprung Camry but you are not going to get a Camry to drive like a Corvette by simply installing stiffer springs. There is a point, however, where further stiffening the suspension will result in a decrease in handling response. Of course another important factor to be considered is dampers (shock absorbers).

There will always be trade offs between handling, ride and grip and you have to choose what works best in the environment the car is being driven in. In my case I have no illusions about my M4 being a track car and I want it optimized for the best balance between comfort and performance on the roads I drive it on.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Good point.

As far as handling response goes there is definitely a sweet spot. Certainly a stiffly strung Corvette will have better handling response than a softly sprung Camry. There is a point, however, where further stiffening the suspension will result in a decrease in handling response.

There will always be trade offs between handling, ride and grip and you have to choose what works best in the environment the car is being driven in. In my case I have no illusions about my M4 being a track car and I want it optimized for the best balance between comfort and performance on the roads I drive it on.

I am not sure about the point on how too stiff of a suspension would decrease handling response, but what I am sure about is that too much handling response is not necessarily a good thing. Too sharp of a handling can make the car quite unpredictable and difficult to read and catch.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

There is a significant drawback to the CP 666M wheels that should not be neglected, it is their massive weight. Unsprung mass has a significant impact on how well a tire stays in contact with the road.

However, it seems BMW finds the best setup for handling resides with a 19" front and 20" rear staggered setup as found on the GTS, CS and M-Performance wheels.

(1.) Anybody that finds a 2018 CP 20s in comfort too harsh should be driving a 1978 Cadillac or a helicopter

(2.) There's a weird floatyness/tramline effect I'm getting very occasionally when I sport-drive that I didn't get in the 2015 non-CP. It seems to happen on a straightaway when i'm moving from right to left for an upcoming turn ... I haven't totally nailed it down. Anyway, someone mentioned heavy wheels can do exactly what I'm feeling for exactly the reason you mention.

but

[SD ///M4]

In the ongoing argument of 19" vs. 20", no has mentioned the cleaning factor. I don't know from experience, but I have to imagine that the 20" CP wheels are much more difficult and time consuming to clean than the 19" wheels given the multitude of small surface areas.

This is one of the deciding factors why my wife decided to get the 19" wheels on her 2018 M3 CP. That and the weight factor, and that 95% of the time it's going to be her daily commuter, plus the fact that we'll get a dedicated set of wheels and tires for track and autocross.

[Teeone]

Anybody that finds a 2018 CP 20s in comfort too harsh should be driving a 1978 Cadillac or a helicopter

Have you ever thought about the role which road surface and quality come into play? In my area, you can take your cp with your 20 inch wheels and brag about having the best, but the ride sucks. Yes, even in comfort mode. I was about to buy one and ended up getting a standard car with adaptive after trying out both on same roads. No comparison.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Teeone

Anybody that finds a 2018 CP 20s in comfort too harsh should be driving a 1978 Cadillac or a helicopter

Have you ever thought about the role which road surface and quality come into play? In my area, you can take your cp with your 20 inch wheels and brag about having the best, but the ride sucks. Yes, even in comfort mode. I was about to buy one and ended up getting a standard car with adaptive after trying out both on same roads. No comparison.

FWIW I purchased my 2007 335i with Sport Suspension (and RFTs) in South Florida. I had no issues with suspension stiffness on the relatively pristine roads of South Florida. After I had the car shipped to my home in Manhattan I found it to be virtually undrivable on NYC ravaged roads. I was constantly bending rims and bubbling tires. Eventually I ditched the RFTs and replaced the crap OEM dampers with Koni FSDs and there was a vast improvement.

I took a lot of flack when I posted my concerns on the various BMW forums but never from anyone who drove in NYC. It was like someone in Florida complaining about the effectiveness of the air conditioner and being told by someone in Quebec that his concerns were baseless. So at this point unless someone has driven their CP with 20s in the FDR Drive during pothole season I take what they have to say with a grain of salt as it probably does not apply to my situation.

I am a bit less concerned (but not unconcerned) about ride quality on the 2018 I just ordered because the car will spend most of its life at my home in Lime Rock, CT. and I have other cars to drive when the roads are ravaged by pot holes.

[seis-speed]

Anyone able to get comp pack and the 18” wheels?

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Anyone able to get comp pack and the 18” wheels?

Sure buy them separately

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by pheerlx

Sure buy them separately

I thought about some light Apex wheels, just would be nice to get the 18’s from the factory. Tried to build CP on bmwusa and could only choose the the 20’s or black 19’s not sure if anyone has been able to order with 18’s?

[Circuit Hunter]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Not saying it is not true, but I have yet to see back to back testing to prove this.

I haven't seen data either but from owning both cars with 19" and 20"s the grip level with 20"s is superior. Turn-in with the 20" is sharper and the extra grip is contributed to the wider tire.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It could be for a variety of reasons though. It is important to keep in mind that the CP 20" PSS are wider than the 19" PSS, hence compensating, at least partially, for the lost grip from the lower profile. The 20" will have a crisper response though.

There is a significant drawback to the CP 666M wheels that should not be neglected, it is their massive weight. Unsprung mass has a significant impact on how well a tire stays in contact with the road.

However, it seems BMW finds the best setup for handling resides with a 19" front and 20" rear staggered setup as found on the GTS, CS and M-Performance wheels.

Fully agree with the wider tire regarding the 20" and 19", I should have been more clear. I believe BMW went with diameter stagger partly due to available tire options not necessarily all performance. With that being said other performance cars have the diameter stagger and there is most likely performance advantages.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I thought about some light Apex wheels, just would be nice to get the 18’s from the factory. Tried to build CP on bmwusa and could only choose the the 20’s or black 19’s not sure if anyone has been able to order with 18’s?

With oem wheels, there are better tire choices for 19 and 18 (I found out the hard way..)

I'd get the 20" for resale and get aftermarket 18s wide enough to accommodate 275 front and 305 rear. Some are suggesting you can go 305 all around which would be nice

[Circuit Hunter]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

With oem wheels, there are better tire choices for 19 and 18 (I found out the hard way..)

I'd get the 20" for resale and get aftermarket 18s wide enough to accommodate 275 front and 305 rear. Some are suggesting you can go 305 all around which would be nice

Good idea if you are going to 18's. Opt for the 20" CP's in black and slang them.

[nicknaz]

^ I meant to say above there were better tire choices for oem 19s THAN oem 18s (would get 19s if I ever reordered an m3)

[Seniorleb]

As U have owned both cars! I would definitely say the ZCP is better car, faster and more powerful and the grip is amazing, less snappy torque! It is ultimately the best of the 2. I don't understand why people keep perpetuating about this...

Check my 2016 M4 Review

My Recent 2018 ZCP M4 Review

[HPIA4v2]

I think OP concerns more for comfort, everyone probably agrees that ZCP makes the handling better.

[MicaCeli]

Originally Posted by Seniorleb

As U have owned both cars! I would definitely say the ZCP is better car, faster and more powerful and the grip is amazing, less snappy torque! It is ultimately the best of the 2. I don't understand why people keep perpetuating about this...

Check my 2016 M4 Review

My Recent 2018 ZCP M4 Review

Great reviews. Your beard is on point also

[Time Lord]

Originally Posted by Seniorleb

As U have owned both cars! I would definitely say the ZCP is better car, faster and more powerful and the grip is amazing, less snappy torque! It is ultimately the best of the 2. I don't understand why people keep perpetuating about this...

Ignorance for the most part. I dont see why anyone would believe otherwise.

[jninja]

I'm intrigued to try a base model now... All I test drove was the 18' ZCP for about 20 mins.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by jninja

I'm intrigued to try a base model now... All I test drove was the 18' ZCP for about 20 mins.

Civic is where it's at. No hokey seats or fast and furious seatbelts

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Civic is where it's at. No hokey seats or fast and furious seatbelts ...

Just disappointment.

Here's the Civic ///M experience once you realize there's a CP

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Just disappointment.

Here's the Civic ///M experience once you realize there's a CP

That was hilarious!

[G-AZ-M4]

Originally Posted by Bomiz

Get it. Trust me

^^
Yep!