VTT Crank Hub Info

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

As the crank hub problems get more and more common, people need parts, since Tony is so familiar with these issues, he put together a parts list and also a legend of what motors share what parts. It's a bit of a hodge-podge, of what is shared between the platforms.

One thing to note is that after 2010. All the hubs go to the 8 bolt hub, this continues all the way up to the new S55's. They do not use the same bolt, and some sprockets match while others do not.

Overall we would say it looks like BMW was trying to save money by sharing parts instead of coming up with a solution to fix the problem.

VTT can offer hope for all platforms. We are developing crank hub fix kits, and we will add these to our "Game Changer" line up to go with our Crank Bolt captures. For the average person the Crank bolt Capture is most likely enough. For other that want to push the boundaries, the full hub replacement, with the Crank Bolt Capture, may be the solution for you. We don't want to say it's pure genius, but it is a pretty nifty solution and I'll be excited to share more details soon. We'll keep you updated on that.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As the crank hub problems get more and more common

Is this true?

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by MNoob

Is this true?

Yes, although maybe not in the sense you're concerned about. Power levels are creeping up on N54 and N55 platforms, and we're seeing more of it.

Chris

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As the crank hub problems get more and more common, people need parts,

our "Game Changer" line up to go with our Crank Bolt captures.
For other that want to push the boundaries, the full hub replacement, with the Crank Bolt Capture, may be the solution for you. We don't want to say it's pure genius, but it is a pretty nifty solution and I'll be excited to share more details soon. We'll keep you updated on that.

FULL hub replacement???

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Original files updated!

After getting with our BMW rep, he said a lot of the parts have superceded so this is easier than ever.

Basically N55/S55 are identical, all parts numbers can be interchanged.

N54 has its own hub, and bolt, everything else is the same.

So all sprockets the same, all grip disks the same, sprocket clip is the same across all three platforms. Makes this pretty easy.

[M4 CSL]

I want to hear more about "The Full Hub Replacement."

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Soon!

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Soon!

Updates??

[priceVob]

Реально короткое

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by priceVob

Реально короткое

Это не должно быть длительным.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As the crank hub problems get more and more common....

Links? References? Any evidence whatsoever of this assertion?

Let me fix this for you,

"Since crank hub problems have gotten far less common since the early days of tuned s55s, and now are so sporadically seen online as to be more internet-legend than escalating problem point, we're spending time trying to fix a problem that may not exist...."

Unless you show evidence otherwise

[brian30tw]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Links? References? Any evidence whatsoever of this assertion?

Let me fix this for you,

"Since crank hub problems have gotten far less common since the early days of tuned s55s, and now are so sporadically seen online as to be more internet-legend than escalating problem point, we're spending time trying to fix a problem that may not exist...."

Unless you show evidence otherwise

No way, man, the crank hub issue is a HUGE problem. Ask any tuner, they'll tell you. But don't worry, they have a solution for you, for the right price.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Ha! I get where you're coming from -it's easy to capitalize on fear to drive product sales. That is not what we're doing.

Our experience dealing with this actually started in the N54 as we pushed boundaries that no one else has. We spun quite a few crank hubs and learned why things were happening the way they were. Enter N55; spun one of those too with excessive torque. S55 was already happening when we got involved, including a customer car. So for us, the S55 crank hub wasn't the primary goal, understanding the similarity in N54/55/S55/etc was the goal, and then addressing it all at once since we got tired of pulling heads and replacing valves/etc. Understand the problem at the root, address it, modify as required for differences in motors, and make it available to those who need or want it.

This is nothing new to us; we push limits all the time. It is both an awesome and a painful thing. Below is one of our Oliver rods after 900+ wtq @ 3300 rpm in our built N54.

Chris

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Ha! I get where you're coming from -it's easy to capitalize on fear to drive product sales. That is not what we're doing.

Our experience dealing with this actually started in the N54 as we pushed boundaries that no one else has. We spun quite a few crank hubs and learned why things were happening the way they were. Enter N55; spun one of those too with excessive torque. S55 was already happening when we got involved, including a customer car. So for us, the S55 crank hub wasn't the primary goal, understanding the similarity in N54/55/S55/etc was the goal, and then addressing it all at once since we got tired of pulling heads and replacing valves/etc. Understand the problem at the root, address it, modify as required for differences in motors, and make it available to those who need or want it.

This is nothing new to us; we push limits all the time. It is both an awesome and a painful thing. Below is one of our Oliver rods after 900+ wtq @ 3300 rpm in our built N54.

Chris

Chris,

VTT does has a great reputation and does great work, so I'll dial-down my snark.

Can you provide ANY details on the spun crank hubs of customer cars? Approximate date, state of tune, mileage on the car, DCT/MT, etc.?

I ask genuinely because at this point spun crank hubs are like sex in high school - everyone's talking about it, but no one is actually having it happen.

[S2evo1]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Chris,

VTT does has a great reputation and does great work, so I'll dial-down my snark.

Can you provide ANY details on the spun crank hubs of customer cars? Approximate date, state of tune, mileage on the car, DCT/MT, etc.?

I ask genuinely because at this point spun crank hubs are like sex in high school - everyone's talking about it, but no one is actually having it happen.

You only need to look in the main topic there you have a lot off cars with the crank bolt/hub issue.

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As the crank hub problems get more and more common, people need parts, since Tony is so familiar with these issues, he put together a parts list and also a legend of what motors share what parts. It's a bit of a hodge-podge, of what is shared between the platforms.

One thing to note is that after 2010. All the hubs go to the 8 bolt hub, this continues all the way up to the new S55's. They do not use the same bolt, and some sprockets match while others do not.

Overall we would say it looks like BMW was trying to save money by sharing parts instead of coming up with a solution to fix the problem.

VTT can offer hope for all platforms. We are developing crank hub fix kits, and we will add these to our "Game Changer" line up to go with our Crank Bolt captures. For the average person the Crank bolt Capture is most likely enough. For other that want to push the boundaries, the full hub replacement, with the Crank Bolt Capture, may be the solution for you. We don't want to say it's pure genius, but it is a pretty nifty solution and I'll be excited to share more details soon. We'll keep you updated on that.

It shows the product on preorder on your website, can you please let me know when can you ship one to NYC? I have a trip between 14-20 October, I would like to purchase one. And my mechanic is saying its installation since they already removed the turbos will be quite easy and fast, can you please confirm if we're not planning something wrong

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by S2evo1

You only need to look in the main topic there you have a lot off cars with the crank bolt/hub issue.

look, I'm a long-standing member with >2600 posts and >780 reputation and I'm challenging these assertions. This is a car I love, a brand I enjoy, and an amazing engine. I've seen reviewers and folks from outside the community basically say "Oh shame it has crank hub issues like Porsche had IMS bearing issues"....

Based upon, what, 15 known reported cases over 50,000 produced units and almost entirely on tuned, DCT models? And new reported cases have gone down to almost zero this past year? Including on pre-bedplate-revision cars.

When I hear a member say, "You have a lot of cars with the crank bolt/hub issue." that sounds quantifiable and significant. A meaningful percentage of cars. And it sounds like it's quite possible it will happen to me personally, as an S55 owner.

And yet no data I have ever seen on this forum supports that.

So I ask for data, recent reports, specific situations, and what I often get in response is "go search."

I have searched, and what I'm stating is my findings. If members on this forum want to make assertions about the platform, I ask they back up those assertions or stop making them.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Well I guess we can close this thread then.

Thanks for continuing the trend of not contributing . My point was I'm not flying in, shitting all over something, and flying out.

I've been following this for a long time and I'm genuinely trying to advance the community beyond just "The S55 has a crank hub issue" to something a bit more like this:

-There are next to no stock S55's with spun crank hubs.
- The # of manual transmission cars with spun crank hubs appears to be almost nil. This may be because of something with the DCT or it may be simply because most cars are DCT.
- Spun crank hubs appear to be uniquely or almost uniquely attributed to cars running higher power levels - usually north of 500wtq.
- There is a theory this is due to flex in the bedplate and that BMW strengthened the bedplate in all S55s around Dec 2015.
- There have been an extremely small number of tuned, strengthened bedplate design S55s which have still spun a crank hub.
- The number of posted, confirmed spun crank hubs and the trend to see these appear has decreased over time rather than increase.
- There has been no proven root cause determined to lead to spun crank hubs. Whether it is due to flex in the bedplate, crank hub bolt, crank hub friction disc, improper torqueing....no one thing has been proven to be the root cause. Some cars have experienced a spun crank hub at "modest" power levels like ~500wtq; others have run 600-700wtq for quite awhile without experiencing issues.

If you disagree with any of the above, let me know and why. This is the best I've been able to determine at this point.

[AhsanU]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

look, I'm a long-standing member with >2600 posts and >780 reputation and I'm challenging these assertions. This is a car I love, a brand I enjoy, and an amazing engine. I've seen reviewers and folks from outside the community basically say "Oh shame it has crank hub issues like Porsche had IMS bearing issues"....

Based upon, what, 15 known reported cases over 50,000 produced units and almost entirely on tuned, DCT models? And new reported cases have gone down to almost zero this past year? Including on pre-bedplate-revision cars.

When I hear a member say, "You have a lot of cars with the crank bolt/hub issue." that sounds quantifiable and significant. A meaningful percentage of cars. And it sounds like it's quite possible it will happen to me personally, as an S55 owner.

And yet no data I have ever seen on this forum supports that.

So I ask for data, recent reports, specific situations, and what I often get in response is "go search."

I have searched, and what I'm stating is my findings. If members on this forum want to make assertions about the platform, I ask they back up those assertions or stop making them.

The fact is that we don't have any concrete data that'll satiate you - only BMW does, and BMW will never state the exact number of cars that have been effected by it.

I can near unequivocally say this - there are a few people that have spun their crank hub that have not posted on these forums, and have not publicly stated they have for resale purposes (there are still people in this world that don't check Carfax reports and vehicle history).

[shivaswrath]

There were stock S55s with spun hubs no? Both with DCT and Manual...Glad to see a solution is being sorted holistically. And it's scary to see part sharing between N55 engines and S55...Such different power and torque outputs!

[M4 CSL]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

If you disagree with any of the above, let me know and why. This is the best I've been able to determine at this point.

It is frustrating I know Joe. My personal beliefs are it absolutely has to do with increasing power.

If you are 100% Stock, you have nothing to fear. You are covered fully under warranty.

I think the bedplate and software updates have basically put the matter to bed, except for those who are tunning hard.

I had an E92 ///M3, and it took 60,000 units to fall over before BMW admitted they had a Rod Bearing Issue. I had mine replaced as a precaution at 100,000 km. On inspection, you could see witness marks and wear. So I believe they would have eventually failed.

We are a small community, but we all have 6 degrees of separation out into the community and we all know a few people who are not on the board and have had the issue as well. It is not rampant, it is not common. But it most certainly does happen.

I don't want to tune my car until there is a definite solution once and for all. I really hope Gintani one piece or Maximum PSI interlocking setup , or anything Chris has, will finally put an end to it. Its a couple of grand labour and most likley a $500 part. Even if I have to spend $3,000 to never worry about this again, and tune as hard as I like, it would be worth it to me.

I would like upgraded turbos. But no way would I spring for that, until this is put to bed. So to all the guys working on the fix HURRY UP.

Joe you will never get any meaningful data. We are talking hundreds of cars worldwide, not thousands. A very insignificant amount of cars, unless you are also one of the unlucky son-of-gun that has had it happen to them.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by M4 CSL

I really hope Gintani one piece or Maximum PSI interlocking setup , or anything Chris has, will finally put an end to it. Its a couple of grand labour and most likley a $500 part. Even if I have to spend $3,000 to never worry about this again, and tune as hard as I like, it would be worth it to me.

This^