All encompassing F82 purchasing experience!!

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

No, Packman had some issues with others getting banned so he self-immolated

His price was a special agreement with his dealer that he has a long-term relationship with and a one-time thing just for him.

To each his own, but trying to get budget pricing when you're doing ED just doesn't seem like a good idea - there's a lot of ways that can end in tears. But that's me, I'm willing to pay for honesty and service.

Good luck!

Thanks for clearing that up. Could you elaborate on ED fails due to budget pricing?
Does the dealer not place the order or sell the car out from under you? Have people gone all the way to the Welt and had no car or the wrong car?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Thanks for clearing that up. Could you elaborate on ED fails due to budget pricing?
Does the dealer not place the order or sell the car out from under you? Have people gone all the way to the Welt and had no car or the wrong car?

I'm not sure if that's happened but I've done two M deliveries and had snags on both. My first was close to disaster with me leaving for Germany without knowing if I'd have a car. here's a quick summary

(1.) I was buying out-of-state for "a good deal", the dealer sent me contracts with simple errors like my name wrong, but also all kinds of shady buried fees. we went back/forth with overnight FedExs at least 10 times, probably closer to 20. I refused to sign a contract that wasn't as agreed and they kept trying to "renegotiate" by sneaking in fees. The summary is I spent huge hours chasing down every trick in the book. NOT WORTH IT.

(2.) The dealer's service was horseshit. They didn't give me any updates, I couldn't get ahold of anyone without call after call after call. NOT WORTH IT.

(3.) On re-delivery I had arranged courtesy delivery to my local dealership for free. All my out-of-state dealer had to do was fax them a doc once the car arrived. Guess what didn't get faxed? and this is despite me speaking directly with about 3 people the day prior and day of. Guess who I couldn't get ahold while my car sat on their lot? Ultimately that cost me $2000 to ship it. NOT WORTH IT.

Cut to three years later. So this time I decided to go with a local dealer. Same shit. Dealer and i agree on a price, I special order the car, and the 3 weeks before I leave, suprise! Sneaky fees, bullshit crap, etc etc.

Only this time I was prepared to walk. But after a few calls I found another dealer willing to provide no bullshit fees and good service who traded an allocation for my order. BMWNA switched the order over and it all worked out.

Here's the thing on ED - you typically settle financing with dealer a few weeks (or a week) before you leave. Not a lot of leverage there for you.

Of course there's other financing ways around this, but the net-net is it should be a great experience and the right dealer will make/break that for you. I'm not buying an M4 because I'm hunting for bargains, I want an awesome experience end-to-end and bullshit dealers ruin that for me so I've decided to pay for service.

I've found that usually a good deal, isn't. Especially when buying a car.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by OneRib

I agree. This is a much better approach. You want the dealers to know they are dealing with an informed, serious, and confident buyer. You can also say if they meet your price, you are ready to place the order immediately. Make sure any price they give you clearly states any incentives they are applying. Some sneak that in the initial offer and you think you still have that money coming off the given price.

Lastly, it doesn't hurt to mention this forum and that you have spoken to other members and have a good idea where the numbers should fall.

+1 on the incentives. I forgot to mention that. Don't even mention the incentives during your negotiation stage. Incentives are directly from BMW and nothing goes from the dealer's pocket. After you have negotiated a final price you can ask them about applying incentives on top of the final negotiated price. The dealer profit will not change after incentives are applied so they should not have a problem doing that. Mentioning them earlier will only help the dealer roll them in and make the deal look better than it really is.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I'm not sure if that's happened but I've done two M deliveries and had snags on both. My first was close to disaster with me leaving for Germany without knowing if I'd have a car. here's a quick summary

(1.) I was buying out-of-state for "a good deal", the dealer sent me contracts with simple errors like my name wrong, but also all kinds of shady buried fees. we went back/forth with overnight FedExs at least 10 times, probably closer to 20. I refused to sign a contract that wasn't as agreed and they kept trying to "renegotiate" by sneaking in fees. The summary is I spent huge hours chasing down every trick in the book. NOT WORTH IT.

(2.) The dealer's service was horseshit. They didn't give me any updates, I couldn't get ahold of anyone without call after call after call. NOT WORTH IT.

(3.) On re-delivery I had arranged courtesy delivery to my local dealership for free. All my out-of-state dealer had to do was fax them a doc once the car arrived. Guess what didn't get faxed? and this is despite me speaking directly with about 3 people the day prior and day of. Guess who I couldn't get ahold while my car sat on their lot? Ultimately that cost me $2000 to ship it. NOT WORTH IT.

Cut to three years later. So this time I decided to go with a local dealer. Same shit. Dealer and i agree on a price, I special order the car, and the 3 weeks before I leave, suprise! Sneaky fees, bullshit crap, etc etc.

Only this time I was prepared to walk. But after a few calls I found another dealer willing to provide no bullshit fees and good service who traded an allocation for my order. BMWNA switched the order over and it all worked out.

Here's the thing on ED - you typically settle financing with dealer a few weeks (or a week) before you leave. Not a lot of leverage there for you.

Of course there's other financing ways around this, but the net-net is it should be a great experience and the right dealer will make/break that for you. I'm not buying an M4 because I'm hunting for bargains, I want an awesome experience end-to-end and bullshit dealers ruin that for me so I've decided to pay for service.

I've found that usually a good deal, isn't. Especially when buying a car.

Touch luck on your experience. You are right about the dealer's sneaking in fees, etc. but imo there is no guarantee that paying MSRP will get your better service. Once you pay, you are on the hook, be it a good deal or MSRP. My plan is to shop around for the best deal with the local and some of the reputable CA's mentioned on the forum or the one's with whom m3f folks have had a good experience with. I will not be ordering blind from an out of state dealer that has no feedback from another member on here. If my local dealer is within $500-700 of a out of state dealer, I will go with the local one.

By the way, I am not planning on financing so not sure how that affects negotiations, good or bad.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dsm918

By the way, I am not planning on financing so not sure how that affects negotiations, good or bad.

THen you're 90% better, especially for an ED. Financing is another channel for dealers to sneak in fees ... but it can also be more work for them and so someone willing to write a check becomes a very nice thing ... unless you're a tough negotiator.

And you're right, paying MSRP (or closer to it than invoice) is far from a guarantee, but it's worked WAY better than the alternative so far for me - YMMV.

People seem to be having good luck in areas with lots of dealers playing them off on another on the same day. Also if you want the best deals, PA and NJ dealers seem to be giving crazy good deals. I had a dealer who agreed to near invoice pricing, and in writing, within 10 minutes but I just couldn't go with an out-state dealer again.

You might want to call them just to get an idea - they know the game.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

THen you're 90% better, especially for an ED. Financing is another channel for dealers to sneak in fees ... but it can also be more work for them and so someone willing to write a check becomes a very nice thing ... unless you're a tough negotiator.

And you're right, paying MSRP (or closer to it than invoice) is far from a guarantee, but it's worked WAY better than the alternative so far for me - YMMV.

People seem to be having good luck in areas with lots of dealers playing them off on another on the same day. Also if you want the best deals, PA and NJ dealers seem to be giving crazy good deals. I had a dealer who agreed to near invoice pricing, and in writing, within 10 minutes but I just couldn't go with an out-state dealer again.

You might want to call them just to get an idea - they know the game.

Thanks. I live right across a PA dealer JoeFromPA bought his car from them Can you pm me the dealer who was willing to give you near invoice pricing? I'll add them to my list of contacts for when I plan to send out my offers

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Thanks. I live right across a PA dealer JoeFromPA bought his car from them Can you pm me the dealer who was willing to give you near invoice pricing? I'll add them to my list of contacts for when I plan to send out my offers

aww Daymn! I can't wait to hear about your deal. Nobody can beat GBPackerFan1963 but maybe you can be the best "real" deal

BMW of Atlantic City

[///M///]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

aww Daymn! I can't wait to hear about your deal. Nobody can beat GBPackerFan1963 but maybe you can be the best "real" deal

BMW of Atlantic City

I will be shooting for a 2016 so deals will be a little easier to get vs the launch year model. I'll be sure to post as and when it happens.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I'm not sure if that's happened but I've done two M deliveries and had snags on both. My first was close to disaster with me leaving for Germany without knowing if I'd have a car. here's a quick summary

(1.) I was buying out-of-state for "a good deal", the dealer sent me contracts with simple errors like my name wrong, but also all kinds of shady buried fees. we went back/forth with overnight FedExs at least 10 times, probably closer to 20. I refused to sign a contract that wasn't as agreed and they kept trying to "renegotiate" by sneaking in fees. The summary is I spent huge hours chasing down every trick in the book. NOT WORTH IT.

(2.) The dealer's service was horseshit. They didn't give me any updates, I couldn't get ahold of anyone without call after call after call. NOT WORTH IT.

(3.) On re-delivery I had arranged courtesy delivery to my local dealership for free. All my out-of-state dealer had to do was fax them a doc once the car arrived. Guess what didn't get faxed? and this is despite me speaking directly with about 3 people the day prior and day of. Guess who I couldn't get ahold while my car sat on their lot? Ultimately that cost me $2000 to ship it. NOT WORTH IT.

Cut to three years later. So this time I decided to go with a local dealer. Same shit. Dealer and i agree on a price, I special order the car, and the 3 weeks before I leave, suprise! Sneaky fees, bullshit crap, etc etc.

Only this time I was prepared to walk. But after a few calls I found another dealer willing to provide no bullshit fees and good service who traded an allocation for my order. BMWNA switched the order over and it all worked out.

Here's the thing on ED - you typically settle financing with dealer a few weeks (or a week) before you leave. Not a lot of leverage there for you.

Of course there's other financing ways around this, but the net-net is it should be a great experience and the right dealer will make/break that for you. I'm not buying an M4 because I'm hunting for bargains, I want an awesome experience end-to-end and bullshit dealers ruin that for me so I've decided to pay for service.

I've found that usually a good deal, isn't. Especially when buying a car.

Thanks for the detailed post. I can imagine how that sours the experience. I will be in the market for ED starting next summer. I am waiting to see what changes the M3 will have for 2016 model year.
Also it depends if I am buying or leasing. More likely to hold out for 2016 if buying.

I plan on going with a local dealer who I had a prior good experience with. As long as they are in the ballpark, I will stay with them. If I'm buying a 70k car, a $1k difference isn't worth it to me. Your experience further confirms that.

I applaud those who can get as spectacular deal, but some forum members turn it into a pissing contest. I have seen too many instances where members are derided for getting a crap deal. Most times the deals aren't crap they just aren't the best possible deals, but who cares if both parties are happy.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by OneRib

derided for getting a crap deal. Most times the deals aren't crap they just aren't the best possible deals, but who cares if both parties are happy.

Exactly, for my time and peace of mind, yeah, it's worth it. At the end of the day we're talking a MAX of $4k but probably a lot less? Who gives a shit? Lots of people are tossing 3, 4, 5x that into mods.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Exactly, for my time and peace of mind, yeah, it's worth it. At the end of the day we're talking a MAX of $4k but probably a lot less? Who gives a shit? Lots of people are tossing 3, 4, 5x that into mods.

Yes, I'll take a stress free, smooth transaction over a bottom basement price with lots of wasted time and stress. Some people need to realize that their time is money. Saving 1-4k but spending 40 hours working the deal doesn't always add up. I just don't want to be treated like a chump, but this forum has so much info its hard to get completely ripped off.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Thanks for the detailed post. I can imagine how that sours the experience. I will be in the market for ED starting next summer. I am waiting to see what changes the M3 will have for 2016 model year.
Also it depends if I am buying or leasing. More likely to hold out for 2016 if buying.

I plan on going with a local dealer who I had a prior good experience with. As long as they are in the ballpark, I will stay with them. If I'm buying a 70k car, a $1k difference isn't worth it to me. Your experience further confirms that.

I applaud those who can get as spectacular deal, but some forum members turn it into a pissing contest. I have seen too many instances where members are derided for getting a crap deal. Most times the deals aren't crap they just aren't the best possible deals, but who cares if both parties are happy.

Great. 2016 as well. Keep in touch. Maybe we can use the same CA and get a better deal

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Great. 2016 as well. Keep in touch. Maybe we can use the same CA and get a better deal

I'm sure we will be seeing each other a lot over the next 6-8 months. Forum members on the cusp of buying turn into forum addicts/vultures/junkies looking for the last morsel of useful info or living vicariously through those who already have their cars.

A better deal may be possible as I'm not too far from you. I still plan on checking local first, but it may work out to do a group buy. A lot depends on if the M3/M4 are off allocation by then.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by OneRib

I'm sure we will be seeing each other a lot over the next 6-8 months. Forum members on the cusp of buying turn into forum addicts/vultures/junkies looking for the last morsel of useful info or living vicariously through those who already have their cars.

A better deal may be possible as I'm not too far from you. I still plan on checking local first, but it may work out to do a group buy. A lot depends on if the M3/M4 are off allocation by then.

Haha, yeah. Am infact right across the road from Otto's BMW. The CA there pretty much told me to go shop around and come back to him with the best deal I got. he is confident he will be able to beat it.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Haha, yeah. Am infact right across the road from Otto's BMW. The CA there pretty much told me to go shop around and come back to him with the best deal I got. he is confident he will be able to beat it.

I bought my first BMW from Otto's (the infamous 2007 335i). I liked them, but moved further away.

That was a great car. I always remember how pissed 2006 330 owners were when it came out.

[MRCUR]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Haha, yeah. Am infact right across the road from Otto's BMW. The CA there pretty much told me to go shop around and come back to him with the best deal I got. he is confident he will be able to beat it.

Be careful with Otto's on the MF. They like to pretend their marked up MF is the buy rate for the month. Back in November they were going with .00165.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

Be careful with Otto's on the MF. They like to pretend their marked up MF is the buy rate for the month. Back in November they were going with .00165.

yeah and bmw makes it more complicated now by adding 0003 to buy rate for ED.

On another note, a bunch of us tried to do a M4 group buy but, of course, that failed since no dealer has a glut of allocations and the dealers aren't affiliated with BMW

[dim635csi]

@GrussGott, thank you for sharing !

I'm still in line to see your Moonstone paint...

Currentlyinclined to cheap AW, but things can change.

[azula]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Below is how I would approach it.

The cells highlighted in yellow are the ones you can negotiate. Everything in green is non-negotiable. It is pre-set and is what it is.

Make sure you and the dealer are on the same page as far as ED Invoice price goes. The numbers should match or be very very close. Ask them to break out the fees as shown below. Always have them separate their fees from the mandatory stuff (Sales Tax and Tag,Title, registration). This way you know it is not being rolled into an lump-sum and you can see things more clearly.

All you really need to negotiate is the dealer profit. Start at $500 and work your way up as needed. It will be a lot easier to negotiate close to invoice next year.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by OneRib

I agree. This is a much better approach. You want the dealers to know they are dealing with an informed, serious, and confident buyer. You can also say if they meet your price, you are ready to place the order immediately. Make sure any price they give you clearly states any incentives they are applying. Some sneak that in the initial offer and you think you still have that money coming off the given price.

Lastly, it doesn't hurt to mention this forum and that you have spoken to other members and have a good idea where the numbers should fall.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I'm not sure if that's happened but I've done two M deliveries and had snags on both. My first was close to disaster with me leaving for Germany without knowing if I'd have a car. here's a quick summary

(1.) I was buying out-of-state for "a good deal", the dealer sent me contracts with simple errors like my name wrong, but also all kinds of shady buried fees. we went back/forth with overnight FedExs at least 10 times, probably closer to 20. I refused to sign a contract that wasn't as agreed and they kept trying to "renegotiate" by sneaking in fees. The summary is I spent huge hours chasing down every trick in the book. NOT WORTH IT.

(2.) The dealer's service was horseshit. They didn't give me any updates, I couldn't get ahold of anyone without call after call after call. NOT WORTH IT.

(3.) On re-delivery I had arranged courtesy delivery to my local dealership for free. All my out-of-state dealer had to do was fax them a doc once the car arrived. Guess what didn't get faxed? and this is despite me speaking directly with about 3 people the day prior and day of. Guess who I couldn't get ahold while my car sat on their lot? Ultimately that cost me $2000 to ship it. NOT WORTH IT.

Cut to three years later. So this time I decided to go with a local dealer. Same shit. Dealer and i agree on a price, I special order the car, and the 3 weeks before I leave, suprise! Sneaky fees, bullshit crap, etc etc.

Only this time I was prepared to walk. But after a few calls I found another dealer willing to provide no bullshit fees and good service who traded an allocation for my order. BMWNA switched the order over and it all worked out.

Here's the thing on ED - you typically settle financing with dealer a few weeks (or a week) before you leave. Not a lot of leverage there for you.

Of course there's other financing ways around this, but the net-net is it should be a great experience and the right dealer will make/break that for you. I'm not buying an M4 because I'm hunting for bargains, I want an awesome experience end-to-end and bullshit dealers ruin that for me so I've decided to pay for service.

I've found that usually a good deal, isn't. Especially when buying a car.

Guys,

Thank you so much for the great info! I will be using this template to submit my offers. I'm looking to have an order in by the weekend/early next week hopefully. I will keep you all updated!

[///M///]

Originally Posted by azula

Guys,

Thank you so much for the great info! I will be using this template to submit my offers. I'm looking to have an order in by the weekend/early next week hopefully. I will keep you all updated!

Just don't rush it. Remember patience is the key and you have to be ready to walk away.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by MRCUR

Be careful with Otto's on the MF. They like to pretend their marked up MF is the buy rate for the month. Back in November they were going with .00165.

Thanks. No worries there as I will not be leasing.

[azula]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Just don't rush it. Remember patience is the key and you have to be ready to walk away.

No worries there, my cheapness supersedes my excitement. LOL