Harman Kardon Amp Upgrade Options

[ratedlemon]

I have a stock standard HI-FI System. I ordered the bav sound stage 1. I didn't get the ghost subs I wanted to see the initial difference from just the speakers and tweeters. Everyone tells me its quite the upgrade just having the speakers and tweeters. Hopefully I'll know in a few weeks, car is still in storage winter sucks here in the windy city.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by ratedlemon

I have a stock standard HI-FI System. I ordered the bav sound stage 1. I didn't get the ghost subs I wanted to see the initial difference from just the speakers and tweeters. Everyone tells me its quite the upgrade just having the speakers and tweeters. Hopefully I'll know in a few weeks, car is still in storage winter sucks here in the windy city.

Bavsound is night and day better than the HK, so I’d imagine that it also is considerably better than the HiFi. Let us know how it sounds!

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I think for a plug and play speakers, the Bavsound are the best and I don’t have them, just from reviews. For amp and other equipment, you have to read here and shop. There were some sponsors that provided key turn solutions and there is a very old thread that had another approach, I’ll try to dig it up.

The product u list above is very interesting, it also uses Burr-Brown DAC, one of the best and it’s compatible w MOST bus. But def ask them if they have done an F8x w HK setup for ur particular HU model. It seems compatible w iDrive 4 only though... I wonder why not for NBT, NBT-EVO?

The odd thing is that it’s listed as compatible with NBT for the F32 but not the F82. One would think that they just forgot to list the F82 there.

That said, I just called the best car audio shop in Houston and he strongly advised against using Mobridge. He said he’d install it but with no warranty because they’ve had issues in the past with them. He instead recommended a more custom solution that didn’t integrate with NBT. I’m not sure how I feel about that.

My other option is to spend the money on the M Performance Exhaust. In general, I value audio (much) more than exhaust, but at some point I might have to accept that it’s a decent system (7 or 8 out of 10 with Bavsound) and it’s just not going to compare to my previous B&O. Even if I spend additional money, it might not get better, whereas the exhaust almost certainly will and will retain the warranty.

I’ll call around a bit more and let you guys know what I decide.

[aboulfad]

@isaywhateveryo , i wanted to do all this few years ago but am cash strapped. The first post listed some options you should consider.

Wether the MObridge is good or bad, first barrier if it works for ur F8x/HU, installers opinions are like ur local corner garage...

Personally I would love to upgrade my radio as I am in traffic a lot and it's much more soothing than having darn burbles or loud exhaust. Of course it's a personal preference.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

@isaywhateveryo , i wanted to do all this few years ago but am cash strapped. The first post listed some options you should consider.

Wether the MObridge is good or bad, first barrier if it works for ur F8x/HU, installers opinions are like ur local corner garage...

Personally I would love to upgrade my radio as I am in traffic a lot and it's much more soothing than having darn burbles or loud exhaust. Of course it's a personal preference.

Sounds like we have the same view on audio!

I talked to a shop locally. He had much more positive things to say about Mobridge. He did say that he thinks I'd need an Amp as well, though. It makes me a bit nervous that he's never done one of these installs, but he does come highly recommended. I suppose at some point, someone has to be the guinea pig for the community...I'm just not sure that I want it to be me.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Sounds like we have the same view on audio!

I talked to a shop locally here in Austin. He had much more positive things to say about Mobridge. He did say that he thinks I'd need an Amp as well, though. It makes me a bit nervous that he's never done one of these installs, but he does come highly recommended. I suppose at some point, someone has to be the guinea pig for the community...I'm just not sure that I want it to be me.

I can help you with all the tech part from BMW, wiring, SSP, pinout, ABL,... and there is DIYs here that show you how to remove car panels,... you definitely need an amp if you are going that route, which basically replaces the puny amp we have in there.

Call Mobridge and ask them straight out, I am sure they will help. I am no audiophile but appreciate good music and equipment. I have a hand me down 35 years old Proac Studio 2 speakers from my father in law that i refinished the wood and replaced the tweeters, and they still sound amazing !

[Encanto]

mObridge DA MOST converters (and the Audison DMI) are fully compatible with NBT MOST, but has a particular audio decoding problem with Bluetooth and Nav voice audio with the NBT EVO.

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I think for a plug and play speakers, the Bavsound are the best and I don’t have them, just from reviews. For amp and other equipment, you have to read here and shop. There were some sponsors that provided key turn solutions and there is a very old thread that had another approach, I’ll try to dig it up.

The product u list above is very interesting, it also uses Burr-Brown DAC, one of the best and it’s compatible w MOST bus. But def ask them if they have done an F8x w HK setup for ur particular HU model. It seems compatible w iDrive 4 only though... I wonder why not for NBT, NBT-EVO?

[aboulfad]

Their website configurator did not show any products for F8x NBT or NBT-EVO. For NBT it was unclear if it's supported or not. Do you have their products or how do you know that it is ?

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Their website configurator did not show any products for NBT or NBT-EVO. For NBT it was unclear if it's supported or not. Do you have their products or how do you know that it is ?

The configurator does show compatibility for NBT for the F30, F32, and F33. Odd that it doesn’t list the F82, as I didn’t think there was a difference. Probably just a mistake. But I’ll cal to find out.

[Encanto]

Tested a DMI/DA1 on an NBT and NBT Evo. NBT worked, NBT Evo has the audio issues above. Confirmed with mObridge - they are working on a solution.

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Their website configurator did not show any products for F8x NBT or NBT-EVO. For NBT it was unclear if it's supported or not. Do you have their products or how do you know that it is ?

[ZoneLaps]

Encanto -- can you tell me how much better the mObridge sounds than the stock amp on Bavsound speakers/sub? A colleague of mine used to be an audio engineer and tells me that he would expect the improvement to be incremental given the hodgepodge matching of speakers, amp, dsp, etc. here.

I may just need to accept that this system is not going to have the clarity and separation of the B&O in the F10. I mean, a 7.5 or so out of 10 isn't bad for vehicle sound, right? Here's me convincing myself...

[aboulfad]

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1133971
Maybe check w Nelson@bimmertech if they ever have something for HK ? He references in that thread Mobridge and later recommends the DA3

[Encanto]

To clarify, a MOST converter is no amplifier. So any audio improvement over the OEM amp audio quality will be determined mostly by quality of the aftermarket amps and speakers with the converter. What the converter improves is the signal to noise ratio compared with the analog signal output of the iDrive unit. In particular, signal hiss and the low volume ramp up (iDrive volume knob needs to be more than half turned to feel the music) are virtually gone with a digital converter. Signal is cleaner and louder at low volume regardless of the aftermarket amp installed.

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Encanto -- can you tell me how much better the mObridge sounds than the stock amp on Bavsound speakers/sub? A colleague of mine used to be an audio engineer and tells me that he would expect the improvement to be incremental given the hodgepodge matching of speakers, amp, dsp, etc. here.

I may just need to accept that this system is not going to have the clarity and separation of the B&O in the F10. I mean, a 7.5 or so out of 10 isn't bad for vehicle sound, right? Here's me convincing myself...

[SanchoDivine]

Everyone talks up the Bavsound speakers over the HK system and I had tried them for a month or two in my e46 M3 before returning them. The speakers didn't seem to come alive until the volume was extremely loud leading me to believe the stock HK amp just didn't have enough power to benefit from those speakers at less than deafening levels. At lower levels the mid speakers didn't even seem to be on.

I just don't believe a significant improvement can be realized by upgrading speakers without upgrading power. If Bavsound had an amplifier solution for their speakers than I would have purchased it instead of returning the speakers. If that combo worked well, I would have a Bavsound combo now. They definitely had great customer service but I remain skeptical of anyone's review claiming how things are night and day better if all they did was replace speakers.

I'm pretty happy with the HK but looking for my next gift to myself soon. Too bad there is still no plug and play amp upgrade available.

I'll see if I can find someone near me that will let me hear the difference in person to see if it is worth another shot.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by Encanto

To clarify, a MOST converter is no amplifier. So any audio improvement over the OEM amp audio quality will be determined mostly by quality of the aftermarket amps and speakers with the converter. What the converter improves is the signal to noise ratio compared with the analog signal output of the iDrive unit. In particular, signal hiss and the low volume ramp up (iDrive volume knob needs to be more than half turned to feel the music) are virtually gone with a digital converter. Signal is cleaner and louder at low volume regardless of the aftermarket amp installed.

Understood. But I think this MOST converter (DA3) has a high end DSP, and I'm I'm guessing my real problem with the system is the DSP.

That said, a local shop talked with mObridge and told me that basically I'd be giving up the center channel and one set of rear channel speakers if I went that route, and he doesn't think it's going to provide the level of improvement that I'm looking for. If I just wanted additional bass, he could definitely help me, but asking for B&O-esque sound is probably not doable here.

I'll think about it some more, but I'm leaning toward staying with what I have. I appreciate the input.

[Encanto]

Let’s say that your local shop has a “crass misunderstanding” of how a MOST converter works and I will leave like that...

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Understood. But I think this MOST converter (DA3) has a high end DSP, and I'm I'm guessing my real problem with the system is the DSP.

That said, a local shop talked with mObridge and told me that basically I'd be giving up the center channel and one set of rear channel speakers if I went that route, and he doesn't think it's going to provide the level of improvement that I'm looking for. If I just wanted additional bass, he could definitely help me, but asking for B&O-esque sound is probably not doable here.

I'll think about it some more, but I'm leaning toward staying with what I have. I appreciate the input.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Encanto

Let’s say that your local shop has a “crass misunderstanding” of how a MOST converter works and I will leave like that...

I haven't looked into any of this stuff, can you please detail your setup ? because this will help many that want to upgrade their factory stuff...

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

I live in Austin. I'm happy to meet up with you some time to let you hear my Bavsound + ghost subs. I think it's a giant improvement over stock, and I fixed the low volume problem by playing with the equalizer.

Stock bass was muffled, highs and mids were not well defined. Bavsound provides punch bass and fairly clear high/mids. It's not at the level of F10 B&O, but it's still pretty good. I think that the inferior DSP is the problem moreso than the power from the amp.

I'm undecided on whether I'm going to upgrade further. It seems like the chances of getting the reward I want are rather small compared to the cost/risk.

Sounds good man. If you are part of the Texas M group and planning to make it to one of the Austin monthly meets I will think about making it up there for that one. I have the MPE/Fabspeed combo if you are curious about hearing that set up in person as well.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I haven't looked into any of this stuff, can you please detail your setup ? because this will help many that want to upgrade their factory stuff...

Take a look at the mObridge website and the very first post of this thread..

[ZoneLaps]

Here is one other idea -- could you replace the amp with the B&O amp? This is particularly interesting given that you can code the system to give you the B&O sound settings.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Here is one other idea -- could you replace the amp with the B&O amp? This is particularly interesting given that you can code the system to give you the B&O sound settings.

Different wiring and crossovers.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by Encanto

Different wiring and crossovers.

Thanks -- I appreciate the help. It sounds like I need to choose between living with the Bavsound (which is a 7/10) or spending a few thousand to upgrade without a guarantee that I will think the end result is substantially better sounding.

I'm leaning toward living with the Bavsound and spending the money on the M Performance Exhaust. If I do upgrade, I'll post a new thread with details of how it was done, what components I used, and whether it was worth it. Then at least others who are thinking about doing this will have a blueprint as to components and whether the sound upgrade is subjectively better (to add to the excellent blueprint in the first post here on *how* to do it).