M4 vs Gen VI Camaro ZL1 (640Hp)

[See5]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

(the cooling issues in the z06 will likely follow into the ZL1).

Seriously doubt it with 11(!) heat exchangers.

The Camaro has significantly more space under the hood than the Corvette.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by minn19

Spend some money, treat yourself.

Great idea! I actually treated myself to a 2 day HPDE this past weekend

No need for leather dashboard and parking cameras in that setting

The more $ I add for M3 comfort options, the worse the value gets compared to the Camaros/Vettes/ATSVs of the world

[ForTehNguyen]

Originally Posted by ixse

When a sub 60k car can probably do low 11s, its time for every auto enthusiasts to rejoice. This car probably can match gt3 track times, if not faster. Just watch.

3800# ZL1 lapping faster than a 3150# 911 GT3?

good luck with that. Good thing is, at least a ZL1 can actually complete laps with all those coolers unlike a Z06

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

3800# ZL1 lapping faster than a 3150# 911 GT3?

good luck with that. Good thing is, at least a ZL1 can actually complete laps with all those coolers unlike a Z06

I wouldn't be so sure. GM implied the new ZL1 is at least as fast as the Z/28 around a track. Lots of tests out there proving how fast the Z/28 is. Very close to a GT3.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

3800# ZL1 lapping faster than a 3150# 911 GT3?

good luck with that.

tire and hp can make up for a lot! And gm seems to be on a roll with its chassis tuning

For regular driver, it might definitely be faster in zl1. Magazines are great but can YOU (or I) max out a car in the first place?

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

Eagerly waiting Ford to announce the GT500....before I comment on this.

I don't know why anyone would purchase a Cadillac over this car. I hate GM a lot, but they are starting to knock it out of the park.

This. Besides the 10 speed automatic (which Ford developed), everything on the ZL1 is pretty much what I expected.

I expect the GT500 to be on some other world shi-... Expect at least 725 hp; maybe as high at 750 hp.

Tarantino is a god at writing scripts, so I'll quote a line from "Jackie Brown":

"When you absolutely positively have to kill every mf'er in the room .... accept no substitutes!"

[OSUbrew]

I'm waiting on the GT500 announcement myself. I'm debating between a Z06 and an M4 for my next car (will be my daily driver) but the GT500 might play spoiler. I'm not really a fan of the Camaro's styling at all, I think the Mustang looks much better.

[adc]

I just cannot understand what they get out of a 10 speed transmission, with so much torque. That thing will hunt up and down the gears like crazy.

I don't even like the 8 speed in my X1 anymore, it has 1 gear too many...


But no doubt it will be a formidable car. Hope to see them on track.

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by adc

I just cannot understand what they get out of a 10 speed transmission, with so much torque. That thing will hunt up and down the gears like crazy.

I don't even like the 8 speed in my X1 anymore, it has 1 gear too many...


But no doubt it will be a formidable car. Hope to see them on track.

Isn't it the opposite? With all that torque it won't be hunting for gears because it won't have too. It's the absence of torque that puts strain on the engine and makes an auto trans choose a higher gear ratio.

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by adc

I just cannot understand what they get out of a 10 speed transmission, with so much torque. That thing will hunt up and down the gears like crazy.

I don't even like the 8 speed in my X1 anymore, it has 1 gear too many...


But no doubt it will be a formidable car. Hope to see them on track.

Definitely the flexibility in gearing. a 10 speed automatic would allow GM to have extremely aggressive gearing for the track to keep the engine in the meat of its power band, but still have decent highway mileage. In manual mode, you should be able to coast at 80 mph turning 2K RPMs.

However, in day-to-day driving, you're unlikely to see beyond 8th gear, even in highway travel. You may not even have noticed if no one told you it was a 10 speed. Also, one of the drawbacks of the dual clutch is some of the lurching and general abruptness. The 10-speed automatic should be smooth as butter.

[NateDog07V]

Originally Posted by See5

I wouldn't be worried about the ATS-V. It, the ZL1, and Stingray are all in the same price range but I'd venture to guess that the buyer demographics look different for each. They won't be cross shopped by the people actually looking to buy them.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually looked at the SS as an ATS-V alternative, and I just couldn't get past the styling... not to mention I was looking to lease (business reasons) and the ATS-V is way more practical (61% residual and 0.00065 MF) so a 69k MSRP can be had for under $700 a month pretty easily with nothing down (a 42k SS was like $550 which was a joke). Took delivery a few weeks ago of a fairly loaded 6spd sedan (custom order took just under 6 weeks) and absolutely loving it so far. CUE I can already live with and the car has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto as well but the gauges definitely need replaced at the first refresh... thankfully the voice control is great and the HUD with RPM's is crucial so no need to look at the gauges other than for oil temp, gas, tire pressure, boost, etc.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by NateDog07V

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually looked at the SS as an ATS-V alternative, and I just couldn't get past the styling... not to mention I was looking to lease (business reasons) and the ATS-V is way more practical (61% residual and 0.00065 MF) so a 69k MSRP can be had for under $700 a month pretty easily with nothing down (a 42k SS was like $550 which was a joke). Took delivery a few weeks ago of a fairly loaded 6spd sedan (custom order took just under 6 weeks) and absolutely loving it so far. CUE I can already live with and the car has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto as well but the gauges definitely need replaced at the first refresh... thankfully the voice control is great and the HUD with RPM's is crucial so no need to look at the gauges other than for oil temp, gas, tire pressure, boost, etc.

ATS-V hmm..

No lol.. wait.. no..

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

ATS-V hmm..

No lol.. wait.. no..

He did admit he's probably in the minority here.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by NateDog07V

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually looked at the SS as an ATS-V alternative, and I just couldn't get past the styling...

I don't blame you. I actually like the ATS-V's exterior styling (interior, especially the aforementioned instrument cluster, is a different story). If I could've had one for under $60K when I was shopping, I probably would've went for it. However, when they announced pricing and it was basically the same as the M3 . . . no deal.

Lease rates are pretty attractive on it now though, like you say.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

He did admit he's probably in the minority here.

Hey
NateDog07V
Dethsupp0rt

... ... nah kidding.. I have for him or her for saying he or she has one.. They are great cars and have probably resulted in us getting a better M car in the future.

Just as this ZL1 will

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

I don't blame you. I actually like the ATS-V's exterior styling (interior, especially the aforementioned instrument cluster, is a different story). If I could've had one for under $60K when I was shopping, I probably would've went for it. However, when they announced pricing and it was basically the same as the M3 . . . no deal.

Lease rates are pretty attractive on it now though, like you say.

I was the same way. If the ATS-V was cheaper, I might have gone for it.

a key thing BMW has going for it though is euro delivery. That was really amazing.

I have my eye on the Vette engine build and museum delivery program. If I ever get a new Z06 that's gonna go on my order sheet for sure!

[MohdBA]

Rgarding the C7 Z06 vs ZL1, IMO the ZL1 is more driver friendly and more livable for DD

[SYT_Shadow]

It'll be interesting to see if they can keep this from overheating at the track

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It'll be interesting to see if they can keep this from overheating at the track

I think they should be able too.. Like the CTS-v.. it has way more areas for coolers to hide and looks to have way more grill to suck in air vs the Z06.

Its rumors to have 11 coolers

[Bunkei]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It'll be interesting to see if they can keep this from overheating at the track

It's unlikely to have any overheating issues given what GM has said (at least what Car and Driver is reporting of what they've said):

" ... Chevy also throws some shade at the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and its harder-core GT350R variant by saying that the Camaro ZL1 is prepared for track duty without any optional add-ons, as it comes standard with 11 heat exchangers for proper powertrain cooling."

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I think they should be able too.. Like the CTS-v.. it has way more areas for coolers to hide and looks to have way more grill to suck in air vs the Z06.

Its rumors to have 11 coolers

Originally Posted by Bunkei

It's unlikely to have any overheating issues given what GM has said (at least what Car and Driver is reporting of what they've said):

" ... Chevy also throws some shade at the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and its harder-core GT350R variant by saying that the Camaro ZL1 is prepared for track duty without any optional add-ons, as it comes standard with 11 heat exchangers for proper powertrain cooling."

Yes, but so far the 'track monster' Z06 overheats

The NA Z51 Corvette overheats without needing to go to the track and on stock tires

Making a FI car that does not overheat with serious track use is difficult. When that same brand is marketing other 'track ready' cars with transmission and engine issues at the same time they release a FI car that is 'track ready', i am beyond skeptical

I hope so!

[AYTifosi]

Certainly Ford, Chevy and Caddy are putting out better products. Those cars are certainly fast and handle better. I can totally see the appeal for those of you who like muscle cars and think of "fast" as 0 to 60mph or 1/4 mile times.

I just got back from Maui where I had rented a Camaro SS vert. It was okay... I would never in a million years buy one. I do fully own that I am a car biggot for German cars. But honestly, the Camaro's pieces clunked (doors, trunk), with 10k on the clock it rattled and was lose (brakes, steering, suspension)... I can't imagine what that car would be like in another 40K. The funniest thing though was that the trunk opening was too small to fit either of our luggage! They weren't that big either. It was tight parking everywhere as it is really wide.

At least it was bright yellow.