05-22-2012, 06:40 AM | #155 | ||
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05-22-2012, 06:51 AM | #157 |
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Why is everybody hoping for 3.2-3.5 L displacement? Let's say it's just 3.0L and is really just a reinforced N55 block, but all the gains are in an innovative turbo setup.... What's wrong with that?
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05-22-2012, 06:57 AM | #158 |
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disappointed by the doom and gloom in this thread.
If you are buying a BMW for all out top speed/HP then you are probably buying the wrong car. The nissan forum is that way -> BMW's are about the whole driving experience and yes the engine is a great part of that, but actually I find it the most fun when turning round corners, bouncing in an out of other cars etc etc. In my mind BMW only let us down with the E36 M3, the others have been mega, 1M, M3,M5 and M6 z4M z3M. The current M5 is outstanding. The current M3 is outstanding, although I have to say I think the E46 was the better all round car and certainly looked a lot better. Go drive the 1M the M3 needs to move closer to that car in my view. I personally would prefer a no turbos and I would have been worried about this but after driving the new M5 I'm not worried at all. My hope is a car around 460BHP and MDCT, light and nimble. I just want it asap 2 years seems a very long time away. I've never owned another brand of car and i've got faith in the BMW marque and more faith in the the ///M marque. Neil.
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05-22-2012, 07:01 AM | #159 | |
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05-22-2012, 07:29 AM | #160 | |
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The N54 will die with the current cars that still use it (E89, E92). The F80 M3's engine will either be based on the N55 (making it an "S55") or on the new generation of I6 that BMW has been working on for the past few years. The latter would make a lot of sense since it has been reported that the target for that engine is up to 400hp for non-M applications. An M application would hit 450hp easily, maybe as much as 480hp or so. |
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05-22-2012, 08:57 AM | #161 | |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines#2014 At least that's where it is today. I try to follow the F1 circus but it's way too time consuming and political. It'll probably change 3x when they resign the concorde agreement, etc. Regardless, downsizing and turbos are coming, and soon. |
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05-22-2012, 09:04 AM | #162 | |
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F1 turbo engines were monsters - with the most wicked turbo lag in existence. Talk about "wait....wait....wait....BOOM!", nothing defined it more. They had a powerband of about 1,500 RPM out of ten times that and were very difficult to drive. And they blew up all the time. But they were fun. Also, i can see the appeal of revving the nuts off a car. My wife's car is an MDX with respectable power. When i drive it, it's very different than my turbo 535. I can tell the response is sharper, I can also tell that it's weak in the low down and needs to rev. That engine is a gem. Even with SOHC, it LOVES to rev. When the cams change, the flap in the intake opens up at 4,500 RPM and it just HOWLS. Whereas the progress up the rev counter was steady, when the cam change hits, I tell people it's like a magnet got turned on at the redline and the needle is sucked over to the red. The more you rev it, the happier it is. Same with the M3's engine. But times are what they are and everyone must adapt. I have no doubt that BMW will pull off a corker. |
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05-22-2012, 09:20 AM | #163 | |
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I am very curious if BMW uses Valvetronic on their next M3. This is the essential difference between N54 and N55, not the turbo differences (two versus one twin-scroll). In fact, Valvetronic makes it possible to use one turbo and still have no lag, so it's a combination. I remember the Valvetronic being left out from the previous M3 because of problems at high engine speeds. The next engine will probably also rev to like 7500RPM, otherwise I can't see how they can pass 430hp with a 3-liter engine. And I do think it will be a 3-liter, because they need fuel efficiency and small displacements are critical for this (not sure how Mercedes does it with their monster 5.5-6.3L engines). The problem with the N55 is that it has weak internals: the crankshaft is not forged like the N54 and the pistons are not made by Mahle (like in the N54) but by a Turkish company. Also the N54 has forged piston rods, and I'm not sure that the N55 has them. An S55 based on N55 will probably be in fact a brand-new engine, with new, more efficient cylinder head (probably with Valvetronic) and also forged internals. The N54 has been said to be a de-tuned 400hp engine. Based on how much abuse this engine takes and the current tuned power levels (450 crank hp easily hit with stock turbos, and 700hp hit with single large turbo) I tend to think this was true.
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05-22-2012, 10:19 AM | #164 | |
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05-22-2012, 10:34 AM | #167 | |
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05-22-2012, 10:44 AM | #168 | |
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Then the E92 M3 came out.
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05-22-2012, 10:47 AM | #169 | |
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05-22-2012, 10:55 AM | #170 |
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i personally was looking forward to a V, im done with these inlines...
hopefully we get fat turbos and more litres tho!
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05-22-2012, 11:13 AM | #171 | |
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Second, the reason why F1 backtracked from the turbo 4 cylinder engines was due to pressure from the manufacturers (read Ferrari), as it wouldn't have any relevance for the development of their road-going cars. The noise coming from the 4 cylinder engine was only a minor factor, as I have no doubt that F1 engineers would've made that thing sing at the 15,000 rpm limit imposed by the FIA for the new engines. One thing is certain, turbos are here to stay for the foreseeable future regardless if some of us still think a naturally aspirated engine is more enjoyable. IMO, more important than turbo/NA engines, would be the the availability of a manual transmission for many years to come, as the very efficient and rapid double clutch units of today are slowly but surely pushing the old stick into retirement. It's happened already at Ferrari, and if rumors are to be believed, it's going to happen at Porsche very soon (the new GT3 is being rumored to have the PDK as the only available transmission). Last edited by ATSR; 05-22-2012 at 12:36 PM.. |
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05-22-2012, 11:16 AM | #172 | ||
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Hybrids are neat but they add appreciable weight. Not good. Quote:
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05-22-2012, 11:44 AM | #174 | |
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Pricing wise, i suppose it's country specific. Over here in Singapore, the V8 R8 is priced between the M3 and M5, making it a viable option for me.
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05-22-2012, 11:51 AM | #175 |
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Yay!!!!! Way to go BMW!!!!!!
I'd be extremely disappointed if BMW were to use v6 in the ///M3. Why? Because the boys at Toyota could build an incredible turbo inline6 10 years ago called Supra, then BMW, who's well known for their i6, has got to do it better for their iconic M3.
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05-22-2012, 01:32 PM | #176 |
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Hoping this is sarcasm..... Obviously no incentive to buy a reinforced N55 that's rebranded as an "M" motor. Good knows the M division never would've been as successful if that's what they did from the start.
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