2018 BMW M3 CS priced at $97,400

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

You're right I speced my 18 M4 to be at around 113 after taxes and warranty

You, sir, are straight out of your mind.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

It goes the other way about burying your head in the sand as well. What king of performance gain are you getting over a ZCP or even a civic M3 in the hands of most people?

We are also in an age where those 50k (which can be had for a lot less realistically) SS Camaros (especially the 1LE) handle/ride better and nearly perform as well as all versions of the M3/4. It is crazy.

I believe -and it's a belief, so you can of course disagree- that the target audience of this car is people who can/want to only have one car and still track often. For those people I expect this car to give them a decent gain, probably 2 seconds, over the 'civic' M3. You may think 2 seconds are ridiculous, but most people are running Hoosiers precisely to gain that advantage.

As far as the 1LE, etc, they are super impressive cars. I don't think I've spoken about them at any point in this thread regarding track capability. I'm referring only to price. A Mustang V8 was 33k in 2015, now it's 50k. In the same way. a M3 was 55k 15 years ago and now it's 70 and the CS is even more.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

A BMW guy calling somebody else a badge whore.

Yes.
You won't find me in the Camaro forum talking about how all those cars are pieces of junk and they should save their rupees to buy an M3, because 'that's where it's at'.

You also won't ever hear me say that I prefer a civic M3 to any Camaro ever built, including the ZL1 1LE, because 'over 70k I'd never buy a Camaro'.
So please, go criticize the other 8000 people who have said on this thread they could never stomach an M3 at 100k because for that price they'd buy a base amish edition 911.

[Dveshawn]

If it holds resale value I really don't see the price as a big problem but that's a big IF ... and cars with good resale typically can't be driven ???? So this car is caught in a never ending mind f***

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I believe -and it's a belief, so you can of course disagree- that the target audience of this car is people who can/want to only have one car and still track often. For those people I expect this car to give them a decent gain, probably 2 seconds, over the 'civic' M3. You may think 2 seconds are ridiculous, but most people are running Hoosiers precisely to gain that advantage.

As far as the 1LE, etc, they are super impressive cars. I don't think I've spoken about them at any point in this thread regarding track capability. I'm referring only to price. A Mustang V8 was 33k in 2015, now it's 50k. In the same way. a M3 was 55k 15 years ago and now it's 70 and the CS is even more.

I get all of that and I don't think two seconds is ridiculous. But, you know most of these CSs will never see the track and will be bought by "badge whores. " Also, most people/drivers who are that talented and a track rat aren't going to buy a M3 CS. It is going to be the occasional track guy that won't be able to extract that extra two seconds out of the car compared to a ZCP or maybe even a civic M3. I'm guessing it will only be a few of these drivers.

Yes after discounts you can still probably get a V8 Mustang for 33k.

https://shop.ford.com/build/mustang/...AA.GT.LESS.%5D

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That’s a fair point - and I haven’t been lucky enough to track or even be in one of these cars while at the track, so I wouldn’t know on that front at all.

My F80 has many DD advantages over the 981 CS I had for two years, because the duality of DD/track capabilities is where the M should shine. From an experience standpoint, however, the Porsche was considerably better in my opinion (sound, feel, handling, etc.). It just depends on what you want and need. I wish I had the means to have both at the same time. Maybe someday.

If you get the chance you should definitely take the 981 on the track. They're fun cars.

In another thread you spoke of the PDK. The DCT also holds gears to redline, etc etc. The SMG back in the stone age did as well. Dual clutch trannys are tons of fun

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

I get all of that and I don't think two seconds is ridiculous. But, you know most of these CSs will never see the track and will be bought by "badge whores. " Also, most people/drivers who are that talented and a track rat aren't going to buy a M3 CS. It is going to be the occasional track guy that won't be able to extract that extra two seconds out of the car compared to a ZCP or maybe even a civic M3. I'm guessing it will only be a few of these drivers.

Yes after discounts you can still probably get a V8 Mustang for 33k.

https://shop.ford.com/build/mustang/...AA.GT.LESS.%5D

Perhaps we have a different understanding of a badge whore.

A badge whore, for me, is someone who wants the more premium badge as the primary motivation for a car.

So, a badge whore would buy a 320i before a Golf R because the 320i 'is a BMW'. They clearly aren't interested in driving dynamics because if they were they'd have the Golf R.

Badge whores usually do not buy the most expensive models in a range. So, a badge whore would never stomach a 70k M3 because for 70k they can buy a used 911 convertible which gets 300x the amount of attention, even though objectively it is a piece of junk.

Also, badge whores are always writing comments that start with 'for that money I would buy X'. I have done no such thing. I have plenty of posts in the 'vs' area of the forum discussing the Viper, 1LE, Z06, etc.

On this thread we've had dozens of badge whores already who clearly would never consider a 100k M3 regardless of the driving capabilities, because for them 100k is amish edition 911 money and they'd prefer to have the badge than the capabilities.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Chabsun

If 100K US come to Canada, you have a 130K sticker price

An how do you come up with that logic?

With your logic, a base M3 would sell for $88k CAD when in fact it has a $77k CAD MSRP in Canada.

Applying the US vs Canada MSRP ratio of the base M3, the M3CS should be listed around $111k CAD here in Canada. Still far from 911GTS money (starts at $138k CAD).

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Perhaps we have a different understanding of a badge whore.

A badge whore, for me, is someone who wants the more premium badge as the primary motivation for a car.

So, a badge whore would buy a 320i before a Golf R because the 320i 'is a BMW'. They clearly aren't interested in driving dynamics because if they were they'd have the Golf R.

Badge whores usually do not buy the most expensive models in a range. So, a badge whore would never stomach a 70k M3 because for 70k they can buy a used 911 convertible which gets 300x the amount of attention, even though objectively it is a piece of junk.

Also, badge whores are always writing comments that start with 'for that money I would buy X'. I have done no such thing. I have plenty of posts in the 'vs' area of the forum discussing the Viper, 1LE, Z06, etc.

On this thread we've had dozens of badge whores already who clearly would never consider a 100k M3 regardless of the driving capabilities, because for them 100k is amish edition 911 money and they'd prefer to have the badge than the capabilities.

You are absolutely laughable. A Carrera S convertible which is as far from junk as you can get, on track would be able to easily beat an M4 GTS on the same tires, given how much faster a Carrera S on summer tires than the M4 GTS. The only one in la la land is you.

I think you also forget that at 90k, a base 911 outperforms the M4, M4 CP/CS and if you threw cup tires on it would match the M4 GTS or beat it despite having a 130 hp deficit. It’s jsut a more capable car and can use its power better. And it’s a lot more fun to drive on and off track too. The Carrera T more so.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Perhaps we have a different understanding of a badge whore.

A badge whore, for me, is someone who wants the more premium badge as the primary motivation for a car.

So, a badge whore would buy a 320i before a Golf R because the 320i 'is a BMW'. They clearly aren't interested in driving dynamics because if they were they'd have the Golf R.

Badge whores usually do not buy the most expensive models in a range. So, a badge whore would never stomach a 70k M3 because for 70k they can buy a used 911 convertible which gets 300x the amount of attention, even though objectively it is a piece of junk.

Also, badge whores are always writing comments that start with 'for that money I would buy X'. I have done no such thing. I have plenty of posts in the 'vs' area of the forum discussing the Viper, 1LE, Z06, etc.

On this thread we've had dozens of badge whores already who clearly would never consider a 100k M3 regardless of the driving capabilities, because for them 100k is amish edition 911 money and they'd prefer to have the badge than the capabilities.

I get what you’re saying - the only aspect i disagree with is in regard to a base 911 being not worth that 100k price tag. You’re forgetting that every M3/4 began its respective life as a base 3 or 4 series. A base 911 began as....a 911; which is truly a sports car. Built from the ground up.

This is my biggest problem with the M4 GTS - how can anything that shares anything with a base 4 series be worth 130k? I can see paying something in that range for a GT3, because the platform upon which it began is so much more focused. That’s all I am saying.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Perhaps we have a different understanding of a badge whore.

A badge whore, for me, is someone who wants the more premium badge as the primary motivation for a car.

So, a badge whore would buy a 320i before a Golf R because the 320i 'is a BMW'. They clearly aren't interested in driving dynamics because if they were they'd have the Golf R.

Badge whores usually do not buy the most expensive models in a range. So, a badge whore would never stomach a 70k M3 because for 70k they can buy a used 911 convertible which gets 300x the amount of attention, even though objectively it is a piece of junk.

Also, badge whores are always writing comments that start with 'for that money I would buy X'. I have done no such thing. I have plenty of posts in the 'vs' area of the forum discussing the Viper, 1LE, Z06, etc.

On this thread we've had dozens of badge whores already who clearly would never consider a 100k M3 regardless of the driving capabilities, because for them 100k is amish edition 911 money and they'd prefer to have the badge than the capabilities.

For the record I don't care what somebody does with their money or their car, but is interesting to talk about. I see badge whores on both ends. It is funny you bring up the 320. I actually feel bad for them that they didn't buy a loaded Accord or Camry that they would probably be much happier with.

I also see it on the other end and I know you do to (which is where your utter hatred for Porsche maybe comes in). You see the rich guy buy the Porsche/Ferrari/GT350R/ZL1 etc that he has no idea how to drive in a quick manner around a track or worse is downright dangerous to everybody else out there. Or they buy them and stuff them in a garage for an "investment" . Any way I see all kinds of them. My last track day I had a guy in a brand new ZL1 that was clearly outmatched by everybody else even guys in stock WRXs. He would barely let anybody by and especially wasn't going to let me buy in my GT350 because he was a Chevy guy. He was driving off track throwing rocks at people's cars and all over the track. He was very popular in the pits/staging area.

Anyway sorry for the OT. I just feel with each M3/4 edition they just keep missing the mark and are doing it on purpose IMO. If this had some actual substance (instead of just software, hood and tuning tweaks) over a ZCP besides the entire catalog of supposed M Performance parts I would be more intrigued. But, who am I to talk as BMWs business plan is apparently working as people keep gobbling them up regardless of how badly they are being gouged. I just wonder how this business plan will hold up over time and when the economy inevitably does a downturn. I wonder what the next M3/4 base price is going to be.

Last, I'm no Porsche fanboy and have the same issues with them that I have with BMW. I love my GT350, but I would also like a sports car with more refinement and luxury that can still be tracked, which is why I still hang around checking out the BMWs latest offerings. For me and I'm guessing a lot of others when you cross the 100k mark it is something psychological that says if I'm going that far, I might as well keep going. Hence why I would take a 911 GTS over a CS of any kind as it stands. I feel like I'm getting much more for my money performance wise etc.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

But isn't this what the ZCP version is/was supposed to do? Aside from the R compound tires being standard, it would still help when a ZCP owner decides to put them on.

Not quite. IMO, the CP "tunable" components were optimized around the stiffer CP suspension but still on street tires. I believe they pushed that further on the CS optimizing them around R-compound tires. If it is the case, it will make the CS more optimized when at the track with R-compound tires.

I guess someone that already own a CP and want to enhance track performance could get the CS settings coded and get most of the benefits.

Originally Posted by minn19

How much better do you think these enhancements will be over the ZCPs enhancements?

So far, the vast majority of reviews have been very positive about the CS, with it often being reference as the best M3/4 yet, the one to get. I guess I'll find out for myself when I actually drive one .

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not quite. IMO, the CP "tunable" components were optimized around the stiffer CP suspension but still on street tires. I believe they pushed that further on the CS optimizing them around R-compound tires. If it is the case, it will make the CS more optimized when at the track with R-compound tires.

I guess someone that already own a CP and want to enhance track performance could get the CS settings coded and get most of the benefits.



So far, the vast majority of reviews have been very positive about the CS, with it often being reference as the best M3/4 yet, the one to get. I guess I'll find out for myself when I actually drive one .

I hear yah and that’s what the reviews said about the ZCP and on and on.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Will this be your next car?

I am more inclined towards the M4CS, if the price and packaging is right that is.

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

An how do you come up with that logic?

With your logic, a base M3 would sell for $88k CAD when in fact it has a $77k CAD MSRP in Canada.

Applying the US vs Canada MSRP ratio of the base M3, the M3CS should be listed around $111k CAD here in Canada. Still far from 911GTS money (starts at $138k CAD).

Add another 4K for the DCT. I think we're looking at $115K for this M3 CS. Maybe $120K for the M4 CS.

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am more inclined towards the M4CS, if the price and packaging is right that is.

That's an expensive car to be tracking 20X a year. All it takes is one oil spill from another car.. (I speak from experience)

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

And the CS will blow the GT4 into the water every day of the week and twice on sunday.

I run across a lot of GT4s on the track. I am still waiting to see a single one that is fast. Hoosier slicks, Fabspeed power package, remote reservoir JRZ... whatever. They still aren't faster than an E9X M3. A CS? LOL

What? Are you being serious right now?

[JMD]

Wow! $100k for an M3! Well ok then.....

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I get what you’re saying - the only aspect i disagree with is in regard to a base 911 being not worth that 100k price tag. You’re forgetting that every M3/4 began its respective life as a base 3 or 4 series. A base 911 began as....a 911; which is truly a sports car. Built from the ground up.

This is my biggest problem with the M4 GTS - how can anything that shares anything with a base 4 series be worth 130k? I can see paying something in that range for a GT3, because the platform upon which it began is so much more focused. That’s all I am saying.

Yes, we aren't too far misaligned

The 100k 911 doesn't even register. A 911 S or 911 certainly does. The base 911 doesn't even have an LSD! This is a fundamental part of any sporty car. It's a shame a m240i doesn't have one, but a 100k sports car?

The 911 is a purpose built sports car and is priced way above the M3 to reflect that. It's quite easy to get a 911 S to 130k, so this has to be taken into account before comparing.

No one buys the base 911. It's entertaining for some people to sling around, but unless you're buying a 911 GTS which will cost 150k don't bother as you will not be getting the proper experience.

I think it's perfectly possible for a car to be worth 5x its base price, it's a matter of what it has in it. The ZL1 1LE starts life as a rental car but then is fully upgraded to be a brutal track machine.
Is a GT2 RS worth 300k list price and 500k actual price? That's 3x the base cost! But I'm sure badge whores are saying they're prefer a base Ferrari than the GT2 RS 'because for 300k I'm buying an F car'.

[KillrM3]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Equal driver in each car, nothing you say holds any truth and the Porsche is a far more capable and faster car. You simply like to think you are some HPDE hero. It’s very different when someone is in an old e9x m3 worth 20k vs a guy in a 100-150k car who is just out there to drive around and have fun.

Funny thing is, in real racing, it takes an IP prepped race M3 to even keep pace with a bone stock from the factory 911. That says it all. Ms are slow on track comparably.

Uh no. On average an IP car would be faster on most tracks than a bone stock 911. Tires, aero, and weight alone. To give you an example at Sebring most IP cars are in the mid to high 2:20's. With an above average driver a base 911 stock would be in the mid 2:30's at best. That being said it would take a GT3, GT3 RS, Cayman GT4, or 911 Turbo to be lapping in the ball park of an IP car and that usually is with an R Compound tire.

To give you another example I was in a M4 GTS that did a 2:26xx lap time first weekend out with the car which is crazy fast for a heavy street car. Now with Hoosier R6's, seat time, and proper set up I would not be surprised if a 2:24xx lap time would be possible. That to me was very impressive. This is real world experience and not someone reading what someone said on the internet or what thinks might happen.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

That's an expensive car to be tracking 20X a year. All it takes is one oil spill from another car.. (I speak from experience)

That's what I do with my current M4 and it cost me ~$100k when I got it in 2014 (including MPE and other MP CF bits). SO I don't see your point .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

Add another 4K for the DCT. I think we're looking at $115K for this M3 CS.

M3 CS already comes standard with DCT