Money2536's 1,500 Mile Review of the F80 M3 and 911 comparison

[Money2536]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

I've hit the 1,500 mile mark on my new F80, so I guess it's time to type out some of my thoughts on the car. I decided to follow the proper break in procedure and have kept the car below 5,500 RPMs, other than hitting the dyno for a baseline run just before doing have the first service done.



Unlike my E92 where I had a dozen parts waiting on the car for install, this time I decided to keep the car stock for a month or so before doing any modifications. I wanted to enjoy the process rather than feel the pressure to be in the garage for 5 straight days putting every part on the car. My OCD tendencies won't allow me to rest until every last detail is done, so this time I learned to take it slowly.

I thought I’d approach my comments as more of a comparison rather than just copy what others have said about the car. I am fortunate enough to have both a 2014 “991” 911 and 2015 F80 M3 in my garage at the same time. The 911 is the benchmark for which I have set my standards, so I thought it useful to compare my new M3 to it. I will say I was a bit afraid the M3 would make me regret spending so much more on the 911. Let’s analyze my opinions to determine whether the 911 is worth it at nearly one and three-quarter times the cost.

For comparison sake, here are the two specs:



2015 M3 Sedan
Mineral White Metallic

Sakhir Orange/Black Extended Merino Leather

Lighting Package: $1,900

19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437M

Adaptive M Suspension
M Carbon Cermaic Brakes
Manual Transmission
Harman Kardon Surround Sound System




911 Carrera S

Burmester Audio Package
White

Carrera S Powerkit
Leather Interior in Black

SportDesign Side Mirrors
Model Designation "911"
Sport Design Front Fascia

Bi-Xenon Headlights in Black incl. PDLS

Headlight Cleaning System Cover Painted in Exterior Color

PASM Sport Suspension
7-speed Manual Transmission

20-inch Carrera S Wheels
Wheels Painted Platinum Satin
Instrument Dials in Black
Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell

Smoking Package

Sport Seats Plus (4-way)

Sport Design Steering Wheel


Exterior
I was a little surprised that the M3 doesn't look as big as I thought it would. I purposely hadn't seen one in person prior to heading to the Performance Center to pick mine up. After looking at the measurements, I thought it would look and feel large. I must say though, parked next to the Porsche in the garage, it looks smaller than I expected. I think that's a good thing.



I am very pleased with the contrast of the two opposite exterior designs of the cars. The angular dimensions, aggressive fenders, and carbon fiber roof of the M3 differs greatly from the smooth curves and carefully crafted layout of the 911. The cars are different enough that they cover enough of a design spectrum to appeal to my personality. This may sound insane, but I really feel like the look of these two cars fit me as a person. Whatever that means…
The paint is really, really good on the M3. Dare I say it is almost as good as the Porsche? There is more orange peel, but the Mineral White is one of my favorite things about the car. My Le Mans Blue E92 paint was not great. It would scratch super easily, was prone to water etching, and generally gave me nothing but headaches. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the blue, but I think this Mineral White is something special. I’ve never been so excited about paint before.

As I tend to do, I was obsessing about how good a job the Performance Center was going do at prepping the car. Most dealerships totally massacre the paint, adding tons of scratches and swirls. Well, they did a really great job. All I needed to do was a finishing polish and wax, and the paint was jeweled and flawless.



Chrome! Call me new school, but I hate chrome. It is cheap and, frankly, makes the car look old. The only piece of chrome on the 911 was the badge. Why in the world would BMW do black trim all over the car and then put chrome grills/gills on this thing? Oh well, easy (rather expensive) fix.

Interior
This is a little tougher to compare. You have the practical, “family” Sedan versus the pure-bread sports car, so I’ll approach this more from a form standpoint rather than function. Although, my three year-old son can sit in the back of the 911, it won’t be long before he’s too big. The M3 wins the function part hands down. I’m 6’2” and was pleasantly surprised that I can sit behind my driver’s seat that is positioned properly for me and my knees barely touch the back of the seat.



The first thought that came to mind when I started thinking about comparing the two interiors was that the 911 feels very 2011 and the M3 has the technology that makes it much more current. This makes sense as the 991 was designed several years ago. I’m not saying it’s bad. It just gives the aura of an ever so slightly out-dated look. Being newly designed, the M3 obviously wins in this department. Dare I say, I actually use the Nav in the M3 where the 911 I break out the iPhone.



Since we are on the subject of Technology, let’s talk Burmester versus HK. Now you may think this would be laughable, and it pretty much is. But, I’m an audio junkie and have found the HK to be surprising good in comparison. The Burmester is much better, but the HK holds isn’t bad. I was surprised by this one. I thought I would hate the HK system. Having metal dome tweeters, I assumed it would be harsh sounding. Again, it’s not great, but it’s good enough. I won’t be upgrading the system in the M3. I thought I would have wanted to do so.



The seats and seating position are really no comparison. I’ve read how great the new seats are in the M3, but the Porsche seats are worlds better. In looking at the design of the two, I’m guessing the 911 seats are a crap load lighter as well. The leather is also much better in the Porsche. I opted for full leather in the 911, but only chose Extended in the M3. The reason I decided against doing full leather again is that I hardly notice it in the Porsche. I thought to myself that I’ve never had a leather dash before, and I’ve been okay. So no full leather in the M3, and I’m not disappointed. I was stressing about this while waiting for my car to show-up, but I’m glad I didn’t check the box. I wouldn’t order full leather again on a 911.



I am pleased with the nice touches like deviated stitching on the door panels at no extra cost in the M3. Porsche charges about $4K to do something similar. Like I said the 911 leather is nicer and the fit and finish it a little better, but I think that would be expected at its price point. I certainly feel good about both interiors. I think I’d have to give the M3 a slight edge overall, but they are both very nice.

6MT Versus 7MT
I’m still a row through the gears kind of guy. I won’t be tracking either car, so being connected to the car by a manual transmission is more important to me than being a few tenths of a second faster. I’m a Honda raised car guy, and the S2000 has spoiled me. The 6MT in the F80 is much improved over the E92, but it still pretty much sucks. It just doesn’t suck enough to make me complain about it every time I drive the car. This car doesn’t rev nearly as fast as its NA V8 predecessor, so this makes it much easier to handle the car at redline than before. That, and it is has a much shorter, more direct gate to 2nd gear. Also, I don’t detect any notchiness. It is rather smooth but is just a bit numb for my liking.



The gearbox in comparison to the 911 is really no contest. The Porsche is smoother, yet provides a more mechanical feel; has shorter, faster throws; and is better positioned in the car. The only knock on the 911 is that the shifter does block the A/C and radio controls, but I don’t care. It is in the right spot for the best shifting position.

Brakes



Carbon Ceramics, “Oh how I love thee, let me count the ways!” I’m sure all of you are going to give me a hard-time over the following comment. I ordered the CCBs on the M3 primarily due to the cleanliness of them. There is no rust, basically no dust, and they look awesome. So call me ridiculous, but the detail freak in me will never be able to get normal rotors again. As far as how they work, the braking exercise at the Performance Center to teach how to turn while ABS is engaged was a waste of time. The brakes were so good that we were stopping twenty feet before the turn. The M5s were rolling almost into the grass. I’ve had a few little squeaks while lightly braking and turning the wheel, but they have been silent otherwise. They make me smile every time I walk up to the car. Washing my wheels is a dream!



To compare the two cars, the CCBs on the M3 are great, but braking is where you really notice the size and weight difference of the two cars. Being 400ish lb. lighter, the 911 seems to stop more effortlessly. Even though the 911 may outperform, I much prefer the look and feel of the M3 brakes. The 911 steel brakes make a bunch of noise, squeaking, and squealing. I will be ordering CCBs on any future car despite the cost. If you are on the fence like I was, spend the money. You won’t be sorry. I promise.

The Experience
I’m a sucker for the experience. Whether it is at a hotel stay or buying a computer, I want to feel a connection. I want to desire to behind the wheel. I’m not sure I have the words to describe the difference in experience between the two cars, but I’m going to try.

Let’s start with steering. I understand why there are lots of complaints about the transition to electric steering. I’ve read the articles from BMW about their new system in the F8X platform being the best in the world. Well in my novice opinion, they are a distant second. The C2S is much, much better. The only thing better about the M3 is the diameter of the steering wheel, but I’m not sure the fat wheel would work in the 911. It would feel too big. So the 911 wins this hands down.

Now it’s time to talk about the important stuff, throttle response/power delivery. I not sure which car is faster. My guess is they will be very close with the M3 slightly winning from a roll. Off the line, I think it would be much easier to win in the C2S due to weight over the rear wheels. Throttle response is the part that really gets me in a comparison. This “Honda Boy” is used to high-revving, wind-it-out motors. The C2S begs me to do this, and the M3 makes me feel as though I can but don’t need to do so. If you look at the pattern of car purchases in my past, it would make sense that I much prefer the snappy response of a naturally aspirated engine. You push the pedal in the M3 and you just don’t get the same reaction from the car. Don’t get me wrong, the torque of the M3 is way cool, but the car doesn’t respond the same to putting your foot down. The 911 springs into immediate action, while the M3 eventually breaks your neck. Both are fast and perform amazingly well, but the C2S easily wins this for me. Although, I am starting to get used to and really enjoy the flood of torque and whistle of the spooling turbos while in the M car.



The sound these cars make could not be any different. Both of them have an artificial enhancement to get sound into the cabin, but for some reason I turn my nose up at BMW’s solution and applaud Porsche’s. The fake sound the M3 is a little offensive. It offends my sense of intelligence. It doesn’t sound bad, it just sounds weird. I think the car sounds okay from the outside, but I only hope an aftermarket exhaust will make it substantially better. Of the many virtues of the M3 the sounds it makes are not one of them.

In contrast, I think the sound symposer in the 911 is genius and really appreciate it. I will say coming from the very organized sounding S65, the 911 took some getting used to. The chaos of backfires and scream at WOT was very different. I’ve grown to become a huge fan of the sound the C2S makes. It is very additive to the experience of driving the car versus the M3’s sound being a negative.

Handling is another no contest. When I picked up the M3 from the Performance Center and spent a day and a half driving through mountain and back roads home to Central Florida, I started to question why anyone would spend so much more on a Porsche. The car felt so balanced and light on its feet. I was immediately in love and began to forget what the 911 felt like.

Well my friends, that euphoria was short lived the morning after I got home. I jumped in the driver’s seat of the C2S, started it up, and immediately knew this was no comparison. When I first got the 911 I had zero experience with driving the car. I only took a short test drive before ordering. Since an early age, I knew I wanted one, but I hadn’t ever actually driven it. I was shocked at how taught and stiff the car was. Now I have Sport PASM, but I could imagine most older gentleman that buy these cars would not take kindly to the aggressive factory suspension settings. That being said, the stiffness is not rough and the overall balance is so wonderful that I can’t put it into words. The M3 is very good for what it is, but I almost get the sense that BMW engineers artificially made the car ride rougher to instill the sense of a connection with the road. I really notice this on my neighborhood road. The C2S provides all the right feedback while the M3 gives me a bit too much while still feeling a bit more numb. Again, it’s hard to explain. The M3 is good, but the 911 is epic.

Conclusion




So I’m a huge fan of both cars. I love them both in very different ways. I wouldn’t want to live without either one. So is the 911 worth that much more than the M3? I believe so. The performance difference doesn’t even come close to warranting the extra cash that needs to be given up, but… THE EXPERIENCE AND VISCERAL CONNECTION ONE GETS FROM THE 911 IS WORTH EVERY EXTRA PENNY! I almost can’t put a price on the experience the 911 gives me. I’m really surprised as I thought I would it be a toss-up which car I wanted to drive more. Again, it’s no contest.

I will certainly say that if someone were to hold up two sets of keys and ask, “Which one?” I’m taking the P-Car!

[damnitBobby]

nice write-up bro

i need to find time and go test drive the manual transmission in the F8x

[STooK]

Thank you for the write up as it was a joy to read. I hope to buy a F80 M3 once I'm done paying off my e93. The 911 is also on my wish list but it probably won't happen for many many years. Glad to see that the F80 stacks up well against a car that costs almost double.

It's funny how you mention you used to own a s2000. It was my favorite car that I've owned, and I will buy another one in the future. It seems like a lot of s2000 owners jump to an M3 then a 911. Anyway, gorgeous combination of cars and please keep posting more pics in the future...I will never get tired of seeing them.

[SakhirM4]

Shouldn't this be in 911 vs. M3/M4?

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by STooK

Thank you for the write up as it was a joy to read. I hope to buy a F80 M3 once I'm done paying off my e93. The 911 is also on my wish list but it probably won't happen for many many years. Glad to see that the F80 stacks up well against a car that costs almost double.

It's funny how you mention you used to own a s2000. It was my favorite car that I've owned, and I will buy another one in the future. It seems like a lot of s2000 owners jump to an M3 then a 911. Anyway, gorgeous combination of cars and please keep posting more pics in the future...I will never get tired of seeing them.

I think it is the natural "anti-nascar" car guy progression. S2000 to M3 to 911.

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Shouldn't this be in 911 vs. M3/M4?

Ha...ha... Yeah, I didn't know if I should put it in Vs. or Photos or General. I chose General Forum. I figured everyone has heard it all about the new M3, so I felt lead to do a comparison instead. Thanks for reading!

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Money2536

I think it is the natural "anti-nascar" car guy progression. S2000 to M3 to 911.

I hate nascar and S2000s. I love M3s and 911s though.

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I hate nascar and S2000s. I love M3s and 911s though.

[991brothers]

Thank you for sharing.

I love the 911. Your M3 looks more aggressive though when theyre side by side. Both are amazing cars. You probably have the best collection for a sports car enthusiast within a reasonable budget.

[chicochico]

Thanks for the write up.
I say kudos to BMW to being so close for almost half the dough.

[jeremyr4]

Thanks to the OP for writing such a comprehensive write up - it is very much appreciated. I have a 7 and 4 year old so I'm not sure that a 911 is dooable for me (my kids fit nicely into the back of my 2013 E93 M3) but my lease is up in 1 year and I'm going to take a VERY close look at the 911 after reading this. Thanks very much!

[JL M3]

Originally Posted by Money2536

I think it is the natural "anti-nascar" car guy progression. S2000 to M3 to 911.

Nice review. I went M3, M3, S2000, M3. Love my F80, but still miss the s2000 as a toy car.

Probably going to pick up another soon, with a 911 in a couple years. Guess I'm "anti-nascar"...although I have a Chevy, haha

Drove a 997.2 turbo and I would take my m3 over that. Need go test the 991...it must be a special car.

[m3rxn]

Nice review + pics. Thanks for posting your impressions

[dkhm3]

Money2536 thanks for this write up- I truly appreciate someone taking the time and the effort to translate their experiences to words. Really enjoy reading your threads- I'm starting to bookmark them.

I do have some questions - My car (coming soon) looks very similar to yours, but no ccb's

1. I am getting black wheels- this is my first time with this color- is it easy to scratch or hard to repair for curb rashes? I think my ocd would go into overtime if I curb it.

2. should i ask the dealer not to wash my car at all when I get it? mine's mineral white too

3. i was considering buying a used p car these last few months instead of buying the m3. How many miles you have on your 911s? How has the reliability been for you? for me, bmw's have been known for electrical issues. I love the cars, so i'm fine with spending more time at the dealers.

4. my issue with used p cars is the extensive list of options for their cars, my annoyance is trying to find the car with the options I want. As with BMW's I know the experience can totally vary with the options. I wonder how it compares with a regular 911 - car and driver rated the m4 better in an article. Any seat time with a regular 911?

thx for your feedback!

[dkhm3]

sheesh i have more questions...

1. if you had a choice between a new m3 vs a used 991 911 lightly optioned with 20-30,000 miles- what would you do?

2. engine- I had an n54 (335i) engine and the thing I hated about it was the power peaked at 600-800 below redline, it just kinda hung there until you shifted. the other thing i hated was the torque was basically 0-10%, then 50%, then 100%. it was hard to modulate. my n55 on the x5 seems better (have not gunned it much on the suv). Is the M3 similar? I saw the dyno graphs and I have a concern it is, peak hp is before redline and then flat.

I am coming from a v8 that is glorious, i am worried about the characteristics of the s55.

I have test driven the car, loved it. but I did not tear it up. it had 47 miles on it only and I would feel bad if someone did it to my future car.

thanks, and sorry for this long worded post.

[Lynchmob6]

Thanks for taking the time to put that all together...really enjoyed it.

[DrtyJrze]

Thanks for the write up. It seems in line with what most reasonable people would expect from a review between a 911 and M3. Love the garage pic with them parked together.

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Money2536 thanks for this write up- I truly appreciate someone taking the time and the effort to translate their experiences to words. Really enjoy reading your threads- I'm starting to bookmark them.

I do have some questions - My car (coming soon) looks very similar to yours, but no ccb's

1. I am getting black wheels- this is my first time with this color- is it easy to scratch or hard to repair for curb rashes? I think my ocd would go into overtime if I curb it.

I'm am allergic to curbs and never come close to them, but I'm guessing it wouldn't go so well if scraped the black wheels.

2. should i ask the dealer not to wash my car at all when I get it? mine's mineral white too

I would absolutely ask the dealer not to wash it. If it's a large dealership, they may run it through a automatic wash. That's no good. The alternative is they have the 17 year-old kid washing cars out back with a bucket of sand water and a brillo pad.

3. i was considering buying a used p car these last few months instead of buying the m3. How many miles you have on your 911s? How has the reliability been for you? for me, bmw's have been known for electrical issues. I love the cars, so i'm fine with spending more time at the dealers.

I've actually had better luck with BMW than my current Porsche. As much as I love it, there are more rattles and the engine at times can be stumbly. I do think the 911 can be a high mileage car, but I be putting the miles on the M3.

4. my issue with used p cars is the extensive list of options for their cars, my annoyance is trying to find the car with the options I want. As with BMW's I know the experience can totally vary with the options. I wonder how it compares with a regular 911 - car and driver rated the m4 better in an article. Any seat time with a regular 911?

Personally, I would much rather have a modified M4/3 over a base Carrera. My car has the extra 30 hp with the very expensive X51 Powerkit. So the base is 80 HP less than my car. The base give you the same experience, it just isn't as fast. Oh, and the brakes are tiny, and the ride height is really high.

thx for your feedback!

....

[Black Gold]

Any more detailed comments on the m3 steering?

How does it compare to say the e92? And how is it different / worse?

I can see how the lack of road feel can bother some, but to me accuracy and even weightimg means way more to me.

Thanks for the review and feedback. You own two of my favorite cars. I loved my experience driving the 991s

[ASAP]

Having driven many Porsches for shorter periods of time including a Turbo S... I will say that I have never been impressed. Yes, the driving experience is there but you give up so much of the practicality goodness and the cost is so much greater that it makes the car not worth it. Combine that with the quickly outdated Porsche interior tech like the navi and so forth, it really makes for an un impressive package. I would say that if "feel and connection" is number 1, then the Porsche is a better car but it loses in virtually every other category.

[SOM3]

Thanks for making me scroll left to right with your HUGE pics.

[sh55]

Great write up!

S2000 manual transmission is magical