Top Gear Giulia vs M3

CanAutM3 · 03-26-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarRacr07

now that's just plain old mean spirited

...not a real M anyway???....
besides IIRC you guys got the Euro versions for 94/95..and then when the motor got bumped to 3.2 litres you got the same one we did....

Correct. And it is that EU version that got me in love with the M3 when I first drove one. I loved it so much I swore to myself I would own an M3 someday

And when I test drove the 3.2L US version a few years later, I was so dissapointed. It was still a great car, but that "tingle" I experienced driving the EU one was just not there.

LOW4LYF · 03-27-2017, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarRacr07

now that's just plain old mean spirited

...not a real M anyway???....
besides IIRC you guys got the Euro versions for 94/95..and then when the motor got bumped to 3.2 litres you got the same one we did....

Well..... he's kinda right ... the US spec M3 was more a 328I "ZCP" ....

The Choosey begger · 03-27-2017, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figurka

Well..... he's kinda right ... the US spec M3 was more a 328I "ZCP" ....

That's because the first SMG was so unreliable, BMW knew it wouldn't get away with it in the US.

CanAutM3 · 03-27-2017, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figurka

Well..... he's kinda right ... the US spec M3 was more a 328I "ZCP" ....

CPWINCH · 03-27-2017, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkhm3

As I have explained before on many posts, the shifts are indeed as "quick".

Look closely at the stats of auto versions of performance cars vs a dct/pdk car. You will notice that the HP/pound ratio heavily favors the auto car, yet the PDK/DCT seem to over perform their numbers. People have falsely said bmw and porsche under-report their hp, but cannot explain why vs their other German rivals they continue to overperform their hp/pound numbers.

Notice that most of the f8x competitors are >80 hp and > 100 hp over the s55. They weigh heavier true, but the HP/pound ratio still is much better in the C63S and the Guilia. Why are the acceleration numbers so close?

PDK/DCT are more efficiently putting the power down, while The computer in the AUTO modulates the throttle during shifts which reduce the torque of the engine to reduce the wear to the auto and potential damage.

Step inside both my x5m and my m3 and go wot and shift 1-2-3 and you will understand what I mean. My m3 seems to push harder DURING every shift, my auto zf seems to just push the same.

Also, try 3 and 4 gear manual blipping on each of the transmissions- (7th to 4th). the dct is instantaneous 7-4, the zf goes like this: 7-6-4.

the devil is in the details. it is cheaper to have modified zf transmission than to have Getrag develop a brand new DCT to handle a new Longitudinal direction DCT for the new M5 to handle the increase in engine torque.

Everything you have said has been spot on. I have a 991 GT3 with PDK, a M4 with DCT and my last car was a ZF8. The hierarchy is PDK > DCT >ZF8. This is from actual track experience not just street driving. These other guys who are arguing seem like they dont have much track experience and get most of their information from magazines and forums.

mc3456 · 03-27-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

Everything you have said has been spot on. I have a 991 GT3 with PDK, a M4 with DCT and my last car was a ZF8. The hierarchy is PDK > DCT >ZF8. This is from actual track experience not just street driving. These other guys who are arguing seem like they dont have much track experience and get most of their information from magazines and forums.

You know every ZF 8 speed application is not identical. You can't make a blanket statement like that and expect it to be perceived as undeniably credible. You should know better than that, plus nobody is arguing that the new ZF is absolutely better, just pretty damn close, or at least close enough that you'd never know...despite your extensive track pedigree.

CPWINCH · 03-27-2017, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc3456

You know every ZF 8 speed application is not identical. You can't make a blanket statement like that and expect it to be perceived as undeniably credible. You should know better than that, plus nobody is arguing that the new ZF is absolutely better, just pretty damn close, or at least close enough that you'd never know...despite your extensive track pedigree.

That is very true. They are very close in performance. My biggest issue was the gearing and having so many gears. I even think the 7DCT feels like too many gears sometimes. The ZF8 is definitely impressive for what it is