2018 BMW M3 CS priced at $97,400

[e92_m3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Go to Porsche website and spec out a civic 911, mine was over 108k and it was pretty low optioned.

To be honest, I'd rather spend that amount of money ($108K) on a civic 911 than a BMW. I'm pretty sure that $97,400 price tag doesn't include the dreadful dealer MARKUP...

To each his own, but IMHO it's just hard for me to pay for an M3 with a $97K price tag. Again,

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but to my understanding, the M3 Cs will not be a limited production run.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by Ben Overlake

Anything into six figs is automatic 911 territory for me.

At $100K may as well get a Carrera S. Perhaps slightly used one.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Venere

It's all relative to your disposable income and how you plan to use the car. I'm sure there are track guys out there who will be thrilled with the CS and happy to pay the price of admission. For me it's simply outside my budget, and the appeal of track days has worn off for me. I spec'd my civic 2018 M4 for street driving (yes, it's still a great DD and plenty of fun when let off the leash) and paid only $68K for it, $5K off sticker. I presume I am getting at least 80% of the fun (YMMV) of the ZCP/CS/GTS variants for a lot less money and a LOT less depreciation expense. I applaud BMW for offering all these variants, and couldn't be happier with the one I chose.

Actual track guy will buy the civic m3/4 and build every time. This is more of a premium premium package.

And again, I'm a fan of the m3/4 cS.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well, kinda, sorta. But not really. The advertised ring time only demonstrates what professional driver's time would be and nothing more. Nobody (ok, almost nobody - maybe two or three of us) here is going to hop in an M3 CS and come close to even the base model M3's ring time, let alone the advertised M3 CS time. It is fact that the vast majority of people buying these cars don't have skills that professionals do. And the vast majority aren't driving on the ring either, for that matter.

Ring time numbers are a marketing tool. There's nothing wrong with discussing and comparing them, but let's keep things real and acknowledge that. Saying that car X is a better track car for Joe Enthusiast than car Y because a pro can drive it around a race course in Germany a few seconds faster doesn't seem like a particularly strong argument that car X is a good track car. Nor does it even come off as a strong argument that car X was created with the express purpose and intention of fulfilling such a role.

Although no regular human will achieve the NRing time of the base/ZCP/CS/GTS, the delta is still meaningful. Any track day is full of village idiots driving ridiculously capable machinery at 1/10 of the limit, however, when a student throws on Hoosiers they immediately are faster.
The fact that someone could pass my student up running Michelin Energy tires is besides the point. They had performance of 'slow' and now they are 'slow+3'.
Similarly, improvements in suspension, diff, traction control, etc, do improve the lap times

Originally Posted by mkoesel

But as I said, even if that is true, it is nowhere near the benefit that a coil over suspension system and brake kit would have.

I don't know what to say. The stock brakes with PFC pads will work very well, a bit better than the stock E9X brakes worked which were perfectly capable despite clueless people crying otherwise.
As far as suspension, having spent ~15k on suspension for both M3s, I strongly value the wonderful world of EDC-style suspensions which 'just work'.

I am not currently the target audience of the CS or the GTS. If I had a GTS I would swap the KW suspension for the MCS 3 way I have in the E90M. I would also swap the ceramic brakes for the PFC BBK.
This doesn't invalidate the usefulness of cars that provide good track experiences stock-ish.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think you are unfortunately allowing yourself to be a little more susceptible to BMW's marketing strategy than what's necessarily best for you in the long run.

To me - and I believe to most others - these cars were created to appeal not to the driving enthusiast. They were created to appeal to the car buyer who is willing to pay more - a significant amount more - than the rest of us so that they can have something more rare than what we have and that people in the know will be aware cost a fair amount more than the garden variety M3 the rest of us drive.

I am not aligned, but we can agree to disagree. This for me is exactly the same as the 911 vs the 911 S vs the 911 GTS. Small performance upgrades, large price deltas. It becomes a 'speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?' type question.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That is exactly it. They won't let you do that because they want your $30k. The secret is to, for as little cost as possible, create the perception of as much added value as possible. And BMW knows that game well - it's about being different. How much different? Just different enough, that's how much. And its about being sold in small numbers. How small? Just small enough. And then finding a way to market it so that it seems like it is $30k better to the type of person I described above. That's the primary buyer for this car, because that's the way they designed the business case.

Hopefully they will one day. I don't see why BMW is being singled out when this is quite standard. Would I like to buy an M3 for 80k that has the performance of the ZL1 1LE and the utility and fit/finish/quality of the M? Yup!! But no one else provides it.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

Actual track guy will buy the civic m3/4 and build every time. This is more of a premium premium package.

And again, I'm a fan of the m3/4 cS.

Track guys who are unmarried have dedicate half their house to car crap and all their free time working on cars yeah, they'll do like I'm doing to the E9Xs and build them out themselves.

The further down the road of building my own race car I go, the more I appreciate cars that can be a single entity (aka garage of 1 car) and work well at the track.

I had the single car for everything back with an E46M I had during 100k miles. Just one car, it had to go to the track, do my long drives to Canada, drive in winter, etc etc. It was not that capable on the track as you cannot really use a BBK or aftermarket suspension on a car that sees significant winter driving.

The M3 CS is way faster than that.

[cbertels]

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Track guys who are unmarried have dedicate half their house to car crap and all their free time working on cars yeah, they'll do like I'm doing to the E9Xs and build them out themselves.

The further down the road of building my own race car I go, the more I appreciate cars that can be a single entity (aka garage of 1 car) and work well at the track.

If someone is serious about going to the track, the m3 cs is the wrong car. As an occasional track car for someone who isn't serious it's ok but for a person in that group it won't enhance their experience over a civic m4.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

We do not have apple-to-apples 'ring time comparisons between base and CP M4. What we do have:

AM&S Supertest times:
7:52 M4 Base
7:42 M4CS
7:37 M4GTS

Factory times:
7:45 M4CP (deduced from the ///M head of engineering video)
7:35 M4CS
7:28 M4GTS

Thanks for the data!

Will this be your next car?

Clearly non pro drivers still get good time delta with the ZCP/CS/GTS. People usually get 2-3 seconds from running slicks at a 2 min track. It is significant.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

If someone is serious about going to the track, the m3 cs is the wrong car. As an occasional track car for someone who isn't serious it's ok but for a person in that group it won't enhance their experience over a civic m4.

In this thread we have people who use their M3/4 as a single car and still manage to do ~20 track days a year. That is pretty serious. Can someone else think that what they actually should do is buy a spec Miata, and a trailer, and an SUV to tow it, etc etc etc? Yes, but that still adds a mess of cars.

Again, I'd bet the CS can lay down 2:05 at WGI and if it can, it is all the track car even serious people need. Because you don't need to beat every single car at a HPDE with your grocery getter

[MyFragileHalogen]

This makes sense for BMW as it will most likely all sell well and they will make more money. All marketing bullshit. Like the someone above stated, for us, no more than ZCP is worth paying for.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

What's going to happen with the 2+ yr gap between the F80 and G80, your lease is up with MSD's and a M3 CS is at MRSP on the lot. Do you walk away to P and let the MSD expire? Or do you bit the bullet? Only late MY 2017 lessers and onwards will have it timed for the new G80.

Might pick up a used 991/981/718 - but I get what you’re saying.

Although, if the G80 looks anything like that tender that was on here recently, I won’t be interested at all.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

In this thread we have people who use their M3/4 as a single car and still manage to do ~20 track days a year. That is pretty serious. Can someone else think that what they actually should do is buy a spec Miata, and a trailer, and an SUV to tow it, etc etc etc? Yes, but that still adds a mess of cars.

Again, I'd bet the CS can lay down 2:05 at WGI and if it can, it is all the track car even serious people need. Because you don't need to beat every single car at a HPDE with your grocery getter

I'm not arguing the merit of a dual purpose car. F8x is great for that as is the CS. My point is, the CS is only going to be marginally better than the standard f8x and there isn't going to be a huge performance benefit. This car is not a track car and like the standard f8x's audience is not going to be hardcore track guys. And again, I'm a fan of the CS

[Jim B]

$97,000 for an M3 CS? That's 20 grand more than I paid for my well optioned 2015 M4 with full leather, 6MT and a host of other goodies. Take a pass on this. You can get an M3 with Competition Package for a LOT less.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by KillrM3

I think all of these haters will realize what the GTS is/was years from now.

No, it will still be overpriced then too. Rarity doesn’t necessarily = special.

The GTS began as a 4 series, which is not a sports car. No matter what wing, body kit, or cardboard interior they throw at it.

A GT3, on the other hand, 991.1 or 991.2 is VERY special. Roughly the same price, not artificially limited in production because Porsche knows they will sell as many as they can make, and are much, much faster.

Just sayin...

PS - criticism also doesn’t mean one is a “hater”. We all don’t have to like or love the same shit, regardless what Barney says.

[bd307]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

In this thread we have people who use their M3/4 as a single car and still manage to do ~20 track days a year. That is pretty serious. Can someone else think that what they actually should do is buy a spec Miata, and a trailer, and an SUV to tow it, etc etc etc? Yes, but that still adds a mess of cars.

Again, I'd bet the CS can lay down 2:05 at WGI and if it can, it is all the track car even serious people need. Because you don't need to beat every single car at a HPDE with your grocery getter

There are quite a few of us who do 20+ track days a year in a DD f8x. CanAutM3 is one of them. Don't underestimate the numbers of us here.

[Chabsun]

Bmw understand and make a new strategy for to sell the GTS(cheaper than M3 and M4), look what they did (it is a joke but it is real on bmw canada web)

If 100K US come to Canada, you have a 130K sticker price, you have a porshe GTS 911 (+10K) , all the M badges to choice for this price... Imo, I love BMW but a gts is a gts
Edit: And we don't talk about the coupe, you can add more money again and more choice of better cars

[KillrM3]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

No, it will still be overpriced then too. Rarity doesn’t necessarily = special.

The GTS began as a 4 series, which is not a sports car. No matter what wing, body kit, or cardboard interior they throw at it.

A GT3, on the other hand, 991.1 or 991.2 is VERY special. Roughly the same price, not artificially limited in production because Porsche knows they will sell as many as they can make, and are much, much faster.

Just sayin...

PS - criticism also doesn’t mean one is a “hater”. We all don’t have to like or love the same shit, regardless what Barney says.

This proves my point exactly. Someone that has never driven or been in a GTS complaining about the car saying that it is overpriced. The GTS is far beyond what a regular M3 or M4 is hence the price point. I know that someone that drives a 10 year old 328i is an expert on these things on the internet but not in real life. That being said I was just making a point that the GTS is a bargain at a 134k MSRP compared to what the CS models will be coming in at.

We can talk about prices all day but BMW's have never been cheap. With inflation taken in to account they haven't changed that much over the past 30 years for M cars.

[Powaup]

What's the competition for a performance sedan in that level? Panaméra too pricey, macan is not as performance oriented, m5 way bigger, different dynamics... maybe if amg releases a C63 amg Black édition sedan. Otherwise this car is all alone and people with money seeking exclusivity won't have a hard time buying it to add to their collection

[dkhm3]

inflation. everything has gone up.

price of food, homes, cars. it is a good economy and this is how things are.

the 911 is currently rather cheap, Porsche will correct this shortly.

Go spec the newer P car models - Panamera and Cayenne, compare them to last year's models and you will understand what I mean. We were looking at both models for my dad last year Panamera GTS and Cayenne GTS. They were both cheap relative to what they are priced now (vs the s models- gts config doesn't come out towards lci).

[ProperBimmer]

Wow that's ridiculous. I never ever imagined a time when a spec'd out m3/4 would be that much. BMW has truly forgotten about the real enthusiast.

I'm good with picking up a CPO that's taken a hit from some fool actually paying 100k for a 3/4 series. Hell I'll even take a m3/4 with an accident on its record before I'd pay new prices. Crazy.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ProperBimmer

Wow that's ridiculous. I never ever imagined a time when a spec'd out m3/4 would be that much. BMW has truly forgotten about the real enthusiast.

People have short memories.

I picked up a 2002 M3 E46 Brand NEW Manual, well equipped, 56k with tax. That's over 15 years ago fellas.

Those were the days of the 22k top spec Integras. Now a loaded Camry is in the 40k league

Get the M2 if you want the essentials.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

More money for less comfort, i.e. no armrests. I think you'd be kind of crazy to actually track an M3CS on a regular basis, which this car was built for. If you crash the car, that's a lot of money down the drain.

Better to buy a used 2015 M3 for 50% of what it was worth when new, and modify the suspension, power, aero, and weight for a more track focused setup.

This. Pretty much the answer for buying any expensive modern BMW for its performance. Unless you have boat loads of money to blow of course.