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      10-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Sometimes the result is greater than the sum of the parts. And the best things sometimes happens by accidence. The result is what the car should be judged by, not the process leading to it's birth.

If the most important part of calling something "true M" is by the process of creation, and not by the end result. If the first is the case, then "true M" has more of a image and "poseur" meaning IMHO. What should matter is how the car drives, feels, gives feedback and if it's is a fast and enjoyable sports car.

If M make a car that is one the greatest driver cars in their history, who cares if they used parts that already were developed for the M3 or other cars? I get that a "bespoke" M3 might be perceived as a "purer" M, by the fact that it's been developed more substantially by M. But if the result of that development is carried over to the 1M, and that ends up being a more involving/"better" drivers car, what's not to like...


That is what I`m saying

Fact is that the 1M is a car that literally came out of the blue, nobody expected it really, even the higher BMW management were not aware about it`s birth.

But then it`s potential became clear, it was allowed for limited production only for reasons of hijacking production capacity from the next generation 1er.

The rest is history............
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      10-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #156
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Like I said...

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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Some passionately call it a true M car, others don't. Of course I am the big, bad jealous M3 owner in the latter camp...
And yes I have driven the 1M and driven it at full clip. I think it is a very good car, it's just not as exciting for me as the other M cars I have owned. That is probably part objective, part subjective and certainly part emotional.
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      10-02-2013, 01:57 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
That is what I`m saying

Fact is that the 1M is a car that literally came out of the blue, nobody expected it really, even the higher BMW management were not aware about it`s birth.

But then it`s potential became clear, it was allowed for limited production only for reasons of hijacking production capacity from the next generation 1er.

The rest is history............
I just wish they made more. I'd be driving one...

At this point a used one will cost you the same as the upcoming M3/4
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      10-02-2013, 03:46 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Like I said...



And yes I have driven the 1M and driven it at full clip. I think it is a very good car, it's just not as exciting for me as the other M cars I have owned. That is probably part objective, part subjective and certainly part emotional.

That is an honest opinion, which I fully respect, I for sure can understand about your mixed feelings and emotions.

I did have them myself..........
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      10-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #159
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      10-02-2013, 04:40 PM   #160
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Seems like we have to wait for confirmation of engine specs etc before we can evolve this thread further...

In a way, if the specs on new block, bore/stroke etc are not what we have been informed of but same as N55, then it will kind of be a disappointment...
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      10-07-2013, 11:24 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The S55 seems very similar to the N63 in terms of power and characteristics. Will this be the 550, X5/X6 50i,750 engine in the future?

( S55 rpm estimates from dyno and tach. )
N63: 4,395*cc, 402*hp @5500-6400, 440*lb·ft@1750-4500, 7000 rpm redline
S55: 3,000 cc, 430 hp @6000-7000, ~400 lb·ft@2000-5500, 7500 rpm redline

I would think dyno charts from both engines will look very similar with a slight shift of the curves to higher rpms for the S55
There is an not too small possibility that what you says, could be the case. The S55 is an complete new engine layout compared with the N55 ... BUT shares a lot technical engineblock facts with the N63 and the N74 and since BMW says in the published facts about the new S55 engine nothing about an complete new engine block, there is an great possibility that the S55 could be based on an half N74 like mkoesel says in the "engine undersquare" thread.
AND therefor it would make much sence if this block would be used for an new AG I6 which could replace the N63 in parts of the BMW porduct range. Sure not so refined as the M-Engine, probably with lower rpm an only one TwinScroll-Turbo and instead an greater displacement.
Then you would get two "Motorenbaukästen", one for the smaller car based on the B37/B38 an ine for the bigger cars based on the new block.

And until now no one has really confirmed the layout of the all new B58 I6!
Only B38 and B48 are official confirmed as new BMW engines.



Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Not the only engine if this new N63 level I6 replace the V8s. Maybe the 7 gets a hybrid to complement this six and no I4. Lots of options
There are rumors in germany that BMW could in the future limit the cars til the 3-series to 4-cylinder engines incl. the 335i, and the 5-series to 6-cylinder engines incl. the 550i ... an step back in the history of BMW, where the biggest engines were big displacement I6s. This all market as an downsizing move to smaller (and cheaper to produce!) engines. The turbo technology would make such things possible!

Sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I meen.

Greetings BMW M3 CRT
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      10-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The S55 seems very similar to the N63 in terms of power and characteristics. Will this be the 550, X5/X6 50i,750 engine in the future?

( S55 rpm estimates from dyno and tach. )
N63: 4,395*cc, 402*hp @5500-6400, 440*lbft@1750-4500, 7000 rpm redline
S55: 3,000 cc, 430 hp @6000-7000, ~400 lbft@2000-5500, 7500 rpm redline

I would think dyno charts from both engines will look very similar with a slight shift of the curves to higher rpms for the S55
There is an not too small possibility that what you says, could be the case. The S55 is an complete new engine layout compared with the N55 ... BUT shares a lot technical engineblock facts with the N63 and the N74 and since BMW says in the published facts about the new S55 engine nothing about an complete new engine block, there is an great possibility that the S55 could be based on an half N74 like mkoesel says in the "engine undersquare" thread.
AND therefor it would make much sence if this block would be used for an new AG I6 which could replace the N63 in parts of the BMW porduct range. Sure not so refined as the M-Engine, probably with lower rpm an only one TwinScroll-Turbo and instead an greater displacement.
Then you would get two "Motorenbauksten", one for the smaller car based on the B37/B38 an ine for the bigger cars based on the new block.

And until now no one has really confirmed the layout of the all new B58 I6!
Only B38 and B48 are official confirmed as new BMW engines.



Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Not the only engine if this new N63 level I6 replace the V8s. Maybe the 7 gets a hybrid to complement this six and no I4. Lots of options
There are rumors in germany that BMW could in the future limit the cars til the 3-series to 4-cylinder engines incl. the 335i, and the 5-series to 6-cylinder engines incl. the 550i ... an step back in the history of BMW, where the biggest engines were big displacement I6s. This all market as an downsizing move to smaller (and cheaper to produce!) engines. The turbo technology would make such things possible!

Sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I meen.

Greetings BMW M3 CRT
Please post pics of your car if true!
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      10-08-2013, 11:37 PM   #163
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Thanks for the info on the S55. I was curious to see how similar it would be to the N55 and S63TU. I think this is encouraging to see that we're not just getting a massaged N55 like the 1M..not that the 1M was a bad car. I love the 1M for its mutt-ness and uniqueness.

Now...I'd love to see what the M Division could do with the N20 and then drop that into a really light car! It could be a ///Miata...BMW style!
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      10-10-2013, 06:03 AM   #164
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Now that we have had the spec on the I6 engine for some time now i find it a bit funny that a least two users who were here debating frenetically that the engine would be a V6 has completely disappeared from this forum.
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      11-26-2013, 12:16 PM   #165
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I just did a rough measurement based on the original of the picture attached.

The bore is definitely larger than the stroke if we can go by the picture, but I haven't done a precise enough measurement to get a reliable ratio between bore/stroke.
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      05-26-2014, 11:36 AM   #166
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So this wasn't correct...
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      05-27-2014, 08:15 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piston3461 View Post
So this wasn't correct...
Indeed it was not correct.
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