Sport Auto August 2016 Test: AMG C63 S Coupe vs M4 Competition Package

[The Choosey begger]

Thanks for sharing.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

I understand your point, but also it depends on what you are comparing. I was just saying in general (I didn't only mention the GTS, but also 488, 675LT, and etc.), the Corvette is the more impressive car. It is far cheaper than other dedicated super cars, and yet only the likes of P1 or 918 are quicker around the track.

The GTS even at MSRP doubles the price of a standard M4 and 50% more expensive than a full optioned Vette, and while the GTS track times are impressive comparing to some super cars, Vette's times are in hypercar territory.

If one thinks comparing a GTS (which started its life as a 4 series) is unfair, that's fine, but the Z06 is a 100k car with track performance capability of a million dollar sports car. SA gave it 98 points, GTS 78, and Z06 also currently sits number one overall in Auto Bild's ranking system, pretty impressive if you ask me, for an American muscle car to be rated so high by German magazines.

With that said, I admit I will take the GTS (or any of my current Ms) over the Z06 lol.

Anyways, was someone looking for Mustang's time on the Hockenheim? It is 1:12.1 (By SA), which is also pretty impressive.

I see, your "incredible" means "incredibly cheap." Then yes, the Z06 is THE incredibly cheap sports car for the performance and bang for the buck.

I am defining incredible as a super ordinary performance/aptitude from something that wasn't designed to do that in the first place.

BMW 3/4 was designed to be comfortable, sporty, luxury passenger car.

BMW M4 GTS- is a limited production car that has only the following changes from a REGULAR CP M4:

1. 49 hp more than the CP package M4 a la water injection. 37 ft/lbs increase in torque vs a regular CP M4.

2. carbon fiber hood, roof strut brace, rear wing, front splitter, rear bulkhead, offsetting the 22 lb increase in weight from the water injection unit- the car weighs the same as a regular M4 with dct (-directly quoted from car and driver 3,550 lbs)

3. ceramic brakes and rotors

4. faux suede interior/no door handles/special seats, a 4 point roll cage for safety/structure- deleting the rear seats.

5. pilot sport cup 2 tires and wider wheels

6. again car and driver: "The basic suspension setup, struts in front with a rigidly mounted rear subframe carrying a multilink suspension and an electronically controlled limited-slip differential in back, remains, but three-way adjustable dampers with external reservoirs and adjustable spring perches (they can lower the car by 0.8 inch for track duty) are employed here."

Race it and it performs faster than a FERRARI 458 on the 'ring- car and driver.

Yes, it costs a lot, but it is not a production car and there are no cars to be had. It was a one time special version of a regular 3/4 series.

I don't think anyone is making excuses here, it's that we have different definitions of incredible.

source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s-drive-review

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by minn19

I also get your points, but c'mon. A regular 3/4 series that can be optioned with a track package and easily reaches 50-60k is a "vanilla" coupe (435)? A Nissan Altima is a vanilla coupe. A 435 isn't supposed to be.

Plus, BMW heavily advertises the M4 GTS as their fastest road/track car ever if I'm not mistaken. It is also obviously heavily modded and it really only resembles a regular 435 in appearance only. It sells for what 130-200k and you guys are making these excuses?!? I'm not a GM fan, but what they did with the corvette is amazing. Assuming they can keep it from overheating.

I disagree in the following ways:

nissan altima is an economy front wheel drive car, no FWD car can ever perform to the level of a RWD or AWD supercar. I suppose vanilla is defined by a car that is designed to appeal to the masses, not a economy car designed to be cheap.

I would not say that the M4 GTS is heavily modded. See my prior post on a list of changes they made. If, by adding 49 hp and keeping the same weight, while tweaking the suspension is heavily modded, then I am not sure we can agree on much.

Yes it is expensive, there is no bang for the buck here, but a regular 4 series that can be slightly changed to beat a ferrari 458 or a 991 GT3 RS is pretty crazy in my book.

And yes, the corvette is a great sports car. It was designed to do just that, with a engine making 650 hp, I would hope it performs great.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Yes it is expensive, there is no bang for the buck here, but a regular 4 series that can be slightly changed to beat a ferrari 458 or a 991 GT3 RS is pretty crazy in my book.

Lets not get crazy here. The M4 GTS is not a better track car than a 991 GT3 RS. The GTS recent Sport Auto Supertest was a little underwhelming actually. It was 3sec slower around the Nurburgring than a base 991.2 Carerra S. While the 911 is wearing inferior tires and basically no aero. Lets not blow the GTS out of proportion.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

I understand your point, but also it depends on what you are comparing. I was just saying in general (I didn't only mention the GTS, but also 488, 675LT, and etc.), the Corvette is the more impressive car. It is far cheaper than other dedicated super cars, and yet only the likes of P1 or 918 are quicker around the track.

The GTS even at MSRP doubles the price of a standard M4 and 50% more expensive than a full optioned Vette, and while the GTS track times are impressive comparing to some super cars, Vette's times are in hypercar territory.

If one thinks comparing a GTS (which started its life as a 4 series) is unfair, that's fine, but the Z06 is a 100k car with track performance capability of a million dollar sports car. SA gave it 98 points, GTS 78, and Z06 also currently sits number one overall in Auto Bild's ranking system, pretty impressive if you ask me, for an American muscle car to be rated so high by German magazines.

With that said, I admit I will take the GTS (or any of my current Ms) over the Z06 lol.

Anyways, was someone looking for Mustang's time on the Hockenheim? It is 1:12.1 (By SA), which is also pretty impressive.

The problem with the Z06 is that it can only do so for a few laps before it overheats (I have witnessed 3 of them overheat myself ).

That being said, I find Corvettes to be an impressive breed. Two of my very good track buddies run C5 Z06s. With a few mods to keep the temperatures and brakes in check, they lap pretty much in the same window as I do with my brand spanking new M4. Pretty impressive for 15 year old cars .

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Lets not get crazy here. The M4 GTS is not a better track car than a 991 GT3 RS. The GTS recent Sport Auto Supertest was a little underwhelming actually. It was 3sec slower around the Nurburgring than a base 991.2 Carerra S. While the 911 is wearing inferior tires and basically no aero. Lets not blow the GTS out of proportion.

Please fill in your response here:

Oh that doesn't count because _____________

Point is, the GTS can beat a 911 GT3 RS. No one is lying. It is possible and has been done.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Attachment 1482121

Please fill in your response here:

Oh that doesn't count because _____________

LOL. Scroll up to number 14.

You like those marketing times don't you.

Real world bud.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Attachment 1482121

Please fill in your response here:

Oh that doesn't count because _____________

Oh and by the way, 991 GT3 RS ring time is 7:20.



http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=911

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I disagree in the following ways:

nissan altima is an economy front wheel drive car, no FWD car can ever perform to the level of a RWD or AWD supercar. I suppose vanilla is defined by a car that is designed to appeal to the masses, not a economy car designed to be cheap.

I would not say that the M4 GTS is heavily modded. See my prior post on a list of changes they made. If, by adding 49 hp and keeping the same weight, while tweaking the suspension is heavily modded, then I am not sure we can agree on much.

Yes it is expensive, there is no bang for the buck here, but a regular 4 series that can be slightly changed to beat a ferrari 458 or a 991 GT3 RS is pretty crazy in my book.

And yes, the corvette is a great sports car. It was designed to do just that, with a engine making 650 hp, I would hope it performs great.

A 4 series "slightly" changed and now it's a 150k car. Whatever, no point arguing with a fanboy.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Oh and by the way, 991 GT3 RS ring time is 7:20.



http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=911

btw, I said the GTS can beat the GT3 RS. Relax, no one is saying it is a better car.

Real World bud.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

btw, I said the GTS can beat the GT3 RS. Relax, no one is saying it is a better car.

Real World bud.

Go back to your link and scroll up to #14. It isn't beating an RS. Don't look like a fool.

[dgp]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Lets not get crazy here. The M4 GTS is not a better track car than a 991 GT3 RS. The GTS recent Sport Auto Supertest was a little underwhelming actually. It was 3sec slower around the Nurburgring than a base 991.2 Carerra S. While the 911 is wearing inferior tires and basically no aero. Lets not blow the GTS out of proportion.

Let's not blow the base 991.2 S out of proportion. M4 GTS test at the ring was during different conditions than 911.2 S test. Using each OEM best achieved times M4 GTS is ~2s faster than 911.2S

And while M4 GTS is not a better track car than 991 GT3 RS, neither is GT3 RS a better track car than a McLaren 650S (which is mostly configured for the street) and even 570S at certain tracks. And they do sell for similar prices in the market (hence the comparison) whereas M4 GTS sells below a GT3 RS.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

A 4 series "slightly" changed and now it's a 150k car. Whatever, no point arguing with a fanboy.

Have you looked at your signature lately? You own 3 BMWs and he is a fanboy

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Go back to your link and scroll up to #14. It isn't beating an RS. Don't look like a fool.

It CAN beat 911 GT3 RS, CAN beat a Ferrari 458.

I did not say the GTS is a better car.

The times are too close, it's a driver's match.

Relax.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dgp

Let's not blow the base 991.2 S out of proportion. M4 GTS test at the ring was during different conditions than 911.2 S test. Using each OEM best achieved times M4 GTS is ~2s faster than 911.2S

I'm not. The GTS is also not this mythical car some people try to make it out to be. It got trounced by the Z06 around Hockenheim. Can't beat the new 911 S.


Another track. GTS can't beat a regular 991.2 Carrera S.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

A 4 series "slightly" changed and now it's a 150k car. Whatever, no point arguing with a fanboy.

Again, I am repeating myself here, it is pretty incredible for a passenger car.

I'd get a GT3 RS ANYDAY over a M4 GTS.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I'm not. The GTS is also not this mythical car some people try to make it out to be. It got trounced by the Z06 around Hockenheim. Can't beat the new 911 S.


Another track. GTS can't beat a regular 991.2 Carrera S.

Who the fuck is making this car mythical? is incredible for a passenger car supposed to mean the car is mythical?

Who is exaggerating here? Why is it so hard to believe that a GTS runs with the best sports cars?

[minn19]

I'm going to duck out of this, but two things.

1. I'm not really sure how it can't be agreed upon that a M4 GTS is heavily modified compared to a regular 435. To the point that they really aren't even the same cars besides the body shape for the most part. I'd maybe even argue that it is still very modified when compared to a base M4.

2. If a regular 435 is a what we are calling a "vanilla" coupe nowadays, then either life is very good.......or BMW has really fallen down the ranks when it comes to performance cars IMO.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

It CAN beat 911 GT3 RS, CAN beat a Ferrari 458.

991 GT3 it is a drivers race, not the RS.

Sport Auto did a head to head with the 991 GT3 and GTS, the GT3 had a quicker lap time around Hockehiem.

It has trouble beating the GT3 that was released almost 3 years, it isn't beating a RS.

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Who is exaggerating here? Why is it so hard to believe that a GTS runs with the best sports cars?

You are exaggerating it, by saying it runs with an RS. In which testing has proven it has trouble running with the non-RS GT3.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by minn19

1. I'm not really sure how it can't be agreed upon that a M4 GTS is heavily modified compared to a regular 435.

Just about every component of the car is modified. There is no argument.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Have you looked at your signature lately? You own 3 BMWs and he is a fanboy

I do not zealously defend BMW nor do I actively make fun of other brands.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The problem with the Z06 is that it can only do so for a few laps before it overheats (I have witnessed 3 of them overheat myself ).

That being said, I find Corvettes to be an impressive breed. Two of my very good track buddies run C5 Z06s. With a few mods to keep the temperatures and brakes in check, they lap pretty much in the same window as I do with my brand spanking new M4. Pretty impressive for 15 year old cars .

To me, the most impressive Corvette is the Grand Sport. For price/value, I don't know that you can beat it. It doesn't have the outright performance of the Z06, but it strikes an incredible (dare I say, perfect) balance of price and capability.