Road and Track asks, "What Cars are Better Without a Manual?"; answers, "M3/M4"

[M2 Pilot]

My left knee is about 10 years older than the rest of my body. DCT was a welcomed option.

[Refined]

I opted for the DCT in the end because my other car is a manual so I still get the experience when I want it, but I was curious to see what all the fuss was about with the DCT. I had generally unfavorable views about automatics based on experience with torque converter type transmissions, but when I noticed it seemed to be a trend amongst high-end sports cars I figured it must be something special.

It's definitely not engaging in the way that a manual is, but it has a character all it's own and I am disappointed to hear that BMW will be moving away from the DCT in the future.

[Rockshaker]

Originally Posted by Refined

I opted for the DCT in the end because my other car is a manual so I still get the experience when I want it, but I was curious to see what all the fuss was about with the DCT. I had generally unfavorable views about automatics based on experience with torque converter type transmissions, but when I noticed it seemed to be a trend amongst high-end sports cars I figured it must be something special.

It's definitely not engaging in the way that a manual is, but it has a character all it's own and I am disappointed to hear that BMW will be moving away from the DCT in the future.

I see it this way:

If you want to ride in the ultimate driving machine get a dct.

If you want to drive the ultimate driving machine, MT is the way to go

[F80Moe]

Yes maybe the DCT is better suited for the track..

But I was shocked at how my 6M/T was faster against two of my buddies F8X from a roll

[MFore]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

With the option to have auto rev matching, I find it hard to see why the manual gets such low praise by those that drive their cars daily. I hope they offer 6MT in the future, and if not, then I'll say goodbye to the M.

Ps.. just test drove the DCT yesterday for the first time... it's a nice option and felt very smooth. I would not be disappointed with this option if I had no choice

Not just the rev matching that makes the manual an easy daily but the lightness of the clutch pedal. I had no idea how heavy the clutch was in my last car until I got back in it after driving my M4 for a week. I haven’t driven the DCT so maybe ignorance is bliss. All I know is if the next gen doesn’t offer a manual I’ll be keeping this car a long time.

[RickFLM4]

But what does Road and Track say about carbon fiber roof vs. moonroof, comp pack vs. no comp pack and optimal color combinations? Incomplete reporting.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

But what does Road and Track say about carbon fiber roof vs. moonroof, comp pack vs. no comp pack and optimal color combinations? Incomplete reporting.

And cf vs steel driveshaft.

[lukej]

[Gibson6594]

Not to mention, what else even qualifies for this comparison? In this performance spectrum, what models even give you the choice, outside of the Corvette and it's variants, and Porsche?

[Golfster]

Like with most reviews of reviews on a car forum, when the reviewer validates our preference the forum goes “yay” but when the reviewer goes the other way the forum goes “nay!”

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

lol people require so much validation on their purchase. i shift like a granny in my car cuz the power is so ample. need fatter tires.. but to each their own. honestly 6mt is the only reason i went with m3. if auto was only option, a lot of people would have bout a c63 amg

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by Rockshaker

I see it this way:

If you want to ride in the ultimate driving machine get a dct.

If you want to drive the ultimate driving machine, MT is the way to go

+1 The only car I ever owned was the 1963 Plymouth I bought from my parents in 1966 when I was going to college. When I graduated in 1969, I bought a new Mercury Cougar with 4MT. I haven't had an automatic (or DCT) since. I love the 6MT in my M4.

[dinonz]

All the more reason to get a manual - avoid being a sheep

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Refined

I opted for the DCT in the end because my other car is a manual so I still get the experience when I want it, but I was curious to see what all the fuss was about with the DCT. I had generally unfavorable views about automatics based on experience with torque converter type transmissions, but when I noticed it seemed to be a trend amongst high-end sports cars I figured it must be something special.

It's definitely not engaging in the way that a manual is, but it has a character all it's own and I am disappointed to hear that BMW will be moving away from the DCT in the future.

The latest torque converter planetary geared ATs have evolved to the point where they give the DCT a very good run for the money. They shift instantly and smoothly, perfectly rev match downshifts and the torque converter is locked out and there is a direct connection from the engine to the drive wheels once the car is in motion,

I have driven the ZF 8 Speed in the Jaguar F Type and the BMW M235i Factory Racer back to back with the BMW DCT in my M4. The ZF is an excellent transmission and the way it is tuned in the F Type and the M 235i as much as I like the DCT in my M I do not see much of (if any) advantage to the DCT.

I had a farily extensive discussion about the M235i AT with Will Turner (Turner Motorsports) and other members of the team while they were shaking out their M235i racers earlier this year and they were raving about the transmission.

As far as I am concerned I understand that there are MT diehards but once the third pedal is gone and the car is either shifting itself or being shifted by the driver with paddles I am far more concerned with the performance of the transmission than I am with the technology that is changing the gears. I think a lot of the appeal of the DCT is that "It is not really an automatic transmission". IMO any transmission that has a mode where it can be placed in drive and will shift itself is by definition an automatic transmission regardless of how the gear changes are accomplished.

I go between AT and MT cars on a regular basis, sometimes several times a day. There is a lot more to driving than shifting gears and as much as I enjoy MT cars I also enjoy driving AT cars and when I am in an MT I don't think to myself "Now I'm driving not riding."

Also you have to consider that there are some very skilled drivers who are concerned with getting around a track as fast as possible and DCTs and some ATs enable them to do just that. The Turner guys were turning 56 second laps in the AT M235i Racers at Lime Rock. If you think they were "riding" in those cars and not 'driving" I would challenge you see if you can duplicate those times.

All of the above being said I understand that there are some who prefer MTs and I hope BMW continues to offer them`

[seis-speed]

If 6MT wasn’t an option I would not own an F80. Makes the car IMO.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I've yet to see me losing to another guy by few milliseconds, and be angry about it.

If you're track driving you'll lose by a lot more than a few milliseconds, but hey:

Some people are ok with being losers.*

MT vs DCT Thread! A true reason for Thanksgiving.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

If you're track driving you'll lose by a lot more than a few milliseconds, but hey:

Some people are ok with being losers.*

MT vs DCT Thread! A true reason for Thanksgiving.

Rather be a loser than drive an auto

I've only had one auto in my life - Lexus IS 300 (they only come in Auto in NZ, and it was a company car). Loved the car - hated the auto. I just don't like them. Almost every rental I've driven has been auto. Don't like them.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I have never been a fan of BMW's manuals. Shifts were somewhat rubbery.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Almost every rental I've driven has been auto. Don't like them.

To be fair, every rental I've driven in Europe has been an MT and I don't like them ... but the ///M MT seems to have slightly better performance.

Maybe ... it's hard to tell

[nicknaz]

I went dct for my f80 to maximize its "dual purpose" nature but definitely can appreciate the fun factor of diy shifting

Mid corner downshifts in dct or pdk cars is pretty mind blowing

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Refined

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...hout-a-manual/

"There are some cars that are just better without a manual transmission. For one reason or another, having an automatic or dual-clutch suits these cars better, and makes for an overall more positive driving experience over a traditional six-speed.

If there's one car I'd recommend going for the auto, it's the current-generation BMW M3 and M4. While the six-speed manual is good, the cars' optional seven-speed dual-clutch automatic is much better-matched to that 3.0-liter turbocharged straight-six. In the manual, the delay between shifts causes the car to drop out of boost, while in the fast-shifting DCT, that's something you don't have to worry about."

Well I did have a bit of a dilemma when I purchased mine, but today I feel just a little better about my choice.

FAKE NEWS!

To repeat for the millionth time:

- I have no doubt the DCT is able to work very well with the engine;
- but I prefer the throttle control of a manual;
- ever notice how 99% of the people who have complained about traction issues have been driving DCT?
- with DCT it is too easy to treat throttle as on/off switch - manual forces you to modulate that better.

Plus manuals are cool and chicks love 'em.

[avantix]

I would much prefer a DCT on track, constantly worrying about an overrev is annoying and trying to shift when under lateral G is tricky at best, but despite all that I would get so bored with a DCT on a daily basis and doesn't mitigate getting a DCT for 4-5 track days a year. Your mileage may vary. Also in my opinion the R&T article is wrong. Unless they are shifting while holding a cup of coffee the DME doesn't pull back boost. It did on the N55 engines in my last 2 335s and it was a nightmare.