I need help deciding (M4 or GTR)

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Ok, come on man the gtr does not understeer more than say an rs4 or rs5.

If you don't believe me maybe you believe Randy Pobst of Motortrend? See the quote below. Sums up my thoughts exactly.

Surprisingly, we all liked the GT-R least. Part of the reason is how unrepentantly crude the thing is. One might assume the Camaro would be the worst-riding vehicle of the three. Or the loudest. Or the most uncomfortable. Only it totally isn't. That trophy rests on the GT-R's mantle. For the 20th time, what are those noises? I've heard printing presses with fewer mechanical howls.

We also didn't care for how it drove. As far as cars go, the GT-R is totally, mind-blowingly amazing. If anyone ever hands you the keys to one, grab them and don't let go. But within the confines of this comparison test, the GT-R came in last on the road. Said Pobst, "Still an awe-inspiring weapon with AWD cleats on its feet. Firm suspension is quick and controlled. Too controlled, in my opinion. The thrilling experience is dulled by too much understeer and a soundtrack by Hoover vacuums.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3MdgrUB2h

[Black Gold]

Yeah so I didn't say it didn't understeer, I said it didn't understeer more than a heavy, very front weight biased, 4000lb awd Audi

I'll stick to those guns all day long

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Yeah so I didn't say it didn't understeer, I said it didn't understeer more than a heavy, very front weight biased, 4000lb awd Audi

I'll stick to those guns all day long

I was just as shocked as you but the weight distribution is 55/45 on the GTR and it weighs pretty much the same as the Audi. I know you have driven older Audis which yes had a lot of understeer but modern Audis driven in the right fashion do not suffer anywhere near as much.

Again refer to Randy Pobst's comments on the RS5 which mirror mine:

"The R8 should be half this good! This car is fantastic. I adore it. It does such a great job utilizing all-wheel-drive traction off the corner, with zero push. You just drive in there and you think it's too early, but you just floor it and you're like, man, I should've gotten on the gas sooner. And no push, no oversteer -- it just drives right out of there, beautifully carving an exit line, using all the power. The gearbox is also very friendly. I just got more confident with carrying speed in and trusting the grip."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1404_2014_audi_rs_5_vs_2014_mercedes_benz_c63_amg_ 507_comparison/

[italy3541]

I want to thank all you guys for giving me your thought and opinions on this. I think you guys are all correct that I just need to go out and drive both of them and then make my decision. There are so many factors is very hard to decide without a driving comparison. I also think it will take more than just a few mile test drive to make my decision. I need to either rent one or find a dealer that will do a extended test drive over the weekend or something like that. Thanks a lot for all the input on this. Much appreciated!

[GotEM4]

I've been pretty much in the same shoes as you are. I love and have always been a big fan of the gtr. I was at one point 50/50 split on which one to go with but more 95/5% leaning towards the M4 after reading many posts cons and pros about the car. This M is truly a unique car that is a lot of fun to drive. If power is all you want get the gtr, if you want an all around car the M4 is the car. It has the looks, power, daily driver option, more room to play around with the power, cost is relatively cheaper than the gtr and to me it has it all. I am waiting for the 2016 M4 as I wanted to make sure my decision to get one is solid after its introduction with the 2015 model. If you have a family, I think it's more practical to have them on the back seat of an M4 rather than the GTR. I am definitely now leaning to M4. I just wished it sounded like a GTR. lol.

[basscadet]

The GT-R is a near-exotic with exotic-level performance and driver engagement. It is an excellent daily driver.

If things like transmission noises (which are completely normal and expected in this car) and Audi-quality interior are important things to you, get the M4 instead.

Just think of it as a sliding bar where you drag the controls between Performance (GTR) and Luxury (M4). If you want both you need a 911 Turbo.

Or, hold on to $30k and wait for the Ford GT350 to come out later next year which might very well have a good dose of both as well with it's magnetic suspension, high-revving NA V8, and 6-speed stick.

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by basscadet

The GT-R is a near-exotic with exotic-level performance and driver engagement. It is an excellent daily driver.

If things like transmission noises (which are completely normal and expected in this car) and Audi-quality interior are important things to you, get the M4 instead.

Just think of it as a sliding bar where you drag the controls between Performance (GTR) and Luxury (M4). If you want both you need a 911 Turbo.

Or, hold on to $30k and wait for the Ford GT350 to come out later next year which might very well have a good dose of both as well with it's magnetic suspension, high-revving NA V8, and 6-speed stick.

All excellent points. I guess it really depends what takes priority. The M4 is a very fast vehicle, but it doesn't come close to matching the GTR performance wise. If performance and speed is the number one objective, the GTR is the way to go. If one is willing to sacrifice some performance for more creature comforts, refinement, and better tech then the M3/M4 is the route to go. One great thing about the GTR is the resale value. Resale values of it are significantly better than most sports cars out there, and having a higher percentage of return on investment is always a factor, at least for me, when buying any car. In either case, OP just needs to drive both and pick the one that better suits his needs.

[LateBraking]

Originally Posted by italy3541

So what do you guys think? I know being on a BMW forum the answers will be more biased but I am also on the GTR forum and am asking the same question there. I plan on looking at all the pros and cons of each and make my decision from there. Whatever I decide to do I will more than likely purchase sometime in the next month or so.

I am looking forward to everyone's input on this!!

Thanks in advance guys..

Well, as a guy who recently made the switch to Porsche I'll be non-BMW biased and tell you to get yourself into a nice 911....lol.

Jokes aside, I think it depends, really. By daily driver, do you mean all conditions at all times? If so, the AWD sure is helpful for folks like me in four seasons Pennsylvania. Do you like manual? If that's a big thing for you like it is for me, the GTR is clearly out. Road and vehicle noises, the GTR will have more. Not unbearable or anything, but it is a louder car. GTR has cool gadgets like gauges and G-meters and stuff, if that is up your alley. I had absolutely horrible experiences with BMW reliability, warranty and BMWNA with both my E92 M3's (although the non-M cars seem to be more reliable) and I have a feeling that Nissan would be a much more reliable car. Nissan also has that one man one motor quality control thing going for them too, if that's something up your alley.

Considering your concerns regarding daily drivability, if you are getting the M4 as a compromise of sorts and can financially swing getting a GTR, I'd entertain the idea of getting a second car. There are daily driver cars that can be had on the cheap. I drive one of those Mitsubishi Evolution X's most days and all winter. Probably switching to a Subaru hatchback soon for the additional cargo capacity, but I digress, no law against having another car, right?

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by LateBraking

Well, as a guy who recently made the switch to Porsche I'll be non-BMW biased and tell you to get yourself into a nice 911....lol.

Jokes aside, I think it depends, really. By daily driver, do you mean all conditions at all times? If so, the AWD sure is helpful for folks like me in four seasons Pennsylvania. Do you like manual? If that's a big thing for you like it is for me, the GTR is clearly out. Road and vehicle noises, the GTR will have more. Not unbearable or anything, but it is a louder car. GTR has cool gadgets like gauges and G-meters and stuff, if that is up your alley. I had absolutely horrible experiences with BMW reliability, warranty and BMWNA with both my E92 M3's (although the non-M cars seem to be more reliable) and I have a feeling that Nissan would be a much more reliable car. Nissan also has that one man one motor quality control thing going for them too, if that's something up your alley.

Considering your concerns regarding daily drivability, if you are getting the M4 as a compromise of sorts and can financially swing getting a GTR, I'd entertain the idea of getting a second car. There are daily driver cars that can be had on the cheap. I drive one of those Mitsubishi Evolution X's most days and all winter. Probably switching to a Subaru hatchback soon for the additional cargo capacity, but I digress, no law against having another car, right?

It might be that I was driving a GTR with only ~500 miles but I found the suspension even in comfort mode (it was a 2014) to be incredibly stiff. Borderline unbearable. And I'm the type that likes a stiff ride. The noises I could deal with it, but the stiffness on the street was jarring.

[LateBraking]

Originally Posted by trinim3

It might be that I was driving a GTR with only ~500 miles but I found the suspension even in comfort mode (it was a 2014) to be incredibly stiff. Borderline unbearable. And I'm the type that likes a stiff ride. The noises I could deal with it, but the stiffness on the street was jarring.

Hence the second car suggestion, haha. But I think suspension, like exhaust sounds, are very heavily dependent on preference. I have a surprisingly low old-man-bad-back tolerance for a rough daily ride myself; what qualifies as rough to me qualifies as comfortable to them. Still, I didn't think GTR's are all that bad, but IMO it depends on the individual. More than compression, poorly set-up rebound settings on a vehicle drive me absolutely hair-yankingly insane.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by LateBraking

Hence the second car suggestion, haha. But I think suspension, like exhaust sounds, are very heavily dependent on preference. I have a surprisingly low old-man-bad-back tolerance for a rough daily ride myself; what qualifies as rough to me qualifies as comfortable to them. Still, I didn't think GTR's are all that bad, but IMO it depends on the individual. More than compression, poorly set-up rebound settings on a vehicle drive me absolutely hair-yankingly insane.

Yes and that's why he should get a Porsche. They are stiff but comfortable

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by ss134

Ouch!- that's one hell of a plunge to make!

Marriage always seems like a great idea from the outside

[italy3541]

I tried to take a GTR for a test drive yesterday with no luck. Every dealer in my area that has one has it sitting in the showroom and will only allow a test drive after you complete a finance app. I told the guy how do I decide I want the car if I cant drive it. He said its just how we do things with the GTR. I called several dealers and got the same story from all of them. I then searched for used ones and could not find any close enough to take a trip for a test drive. Also a lot of them were older ones. Being that I would be getting a 2014 or 2015 depending on the dealers inventory I would want to test drive the same because of the little updates they have done. I then looked up a rental on one and there is not any in my area. Only Hertz has them for rent and I would have to drive all the way to philly to even do it. They don't transfer those types of cars is what I was told. It seems I will not be getting a chance to drive a GTR anytime soon. Which I guess is not a bad thing being that I am not looking to do anything this second. But as I said it is something that I may do in the next few months.

I did get a call from the BMW dealer that I got my Z4 from and was told they have a M4 that will be in within the next couple weeks and they will call me as soon as it arrives so I can drive it. I guess now I will have to try to track down someone in my area who owns a GTR who would not mind letting someone take it for a ride.

The more time that passes the more I lean towards the M4. Maybe its a sign not to get a GTR with the trouble I have been having even being able to drive one. All I can say is if I get to drive the M4 first and don't have any leads on a GTR to drive I am sure I will just order a M4.

[basscadet]

italy - sorry you are having bad luck with arrogant dealers.

I've had two GT-Rs and never had any problems getting a test drive although you do have to understand there are a lot of "tire kickers" who want to look at these cars. They're also very limited in production, BMW will deliver more M3 and M4s in 2015 than all the GT-R's sold in US...ever. Also factor in that GT-R buyers like me won't take delivery of one if it has more than 15-20 miles on it.

Here is my advice: when you are within a 30 day window of buying a M4 go ahead and test drive the GT-R. Agree to let them size you up financially provided you are satisfied after the test drive. Then go drive the M4. If you prefer the M4, you don't need to buy the GT-R. Even if they run a credit app on you, if it's within a 30 day window, your credit bureau will regard multiple auto loan applications as a single credit pull and you won't ding your credit.

If nothing else, you will have the peace of mind knowing you drove both cars and made the right decision.

[NorCal f80]

Italy I had the same problem with dealers trying to test drive an M4.

[italy3541]

I have no problem getting BMW to let me drive the M4. They just don't have one right now. Every time I go to the dealer they always ask me if there is anything I would like to drive.. I love that about BMW. Its the people over at Nissan that don't want to let me drive the car..lol..

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by basscadet

italy - sorry you are having bad luck with arrogant dealers.

I've had two GT-Rs and never had any problems getting a test drive although you do have to understand there are a lot of "tire kickers" who want to look at these cars. They're also very limited in production, BMW will deliver more M3 and M4s in 2015 than all the GT-R's sold in US...ever. Also factor in that GT-R buyers like me won't take delivery of one if it has more than 15-20 miles on it.

Here is my advice: when you are within a 30 day window of buying a M4 go ahead and test drive the GT-R. Agree to let them size you up financially provided you are satisfied after the test drive. Then go drive the M4. If you prefer the M4, you don't need to buy the GT-R. Even if they run a credit app on you, if it's within a 30 day window, your credit bureau will regard multiple auto loan applications as a single credit pull and you won't ding your credit.

If nothing else, you will have the peace of mind knowing you drove both cars and made the right decision.

Just find a used GTR preferably at a dealer. I did that years ago and the dealer literally said "I'm taking you to a racetrack" which just turned out to be a canyon road near by. But he definitely let me push it. Btw that car was originally in the showroom when I showed up.

[italy3541]

I think the dealers in your area are much cooler than the ones here. Most here have a giant stick shoved up their ass about any GTR...lol.. I wish I could find a BMW dealer that had a used one on the lot, Then I could drive both back to back, and BMW dealers are awesome about going for test drives.

[NorCal f80]

Before I purchased my GTR I did have to go to a smaller dealership to test drive. Even they were strict. I showed them my preapproval check and was able to test drive after that.

[onatuesday]

Tbh I think alot if it depends on the car you show up in. If you show up in a car of equal or higher price then that's already qualification right there. But yeah credit score will seal the deal if there's any doubt

[italy3541]

I am going to the dealers in my brand new Z4. Its not as much as the GTR but it was still a $65,000 car. So I don't think it has anything to do with them thinking I cant afford it. I think it is more they don't want someone who is not ready to buy right after driving the car. I am not to worried about it. I know if I was ready right now to buy I would push a lot harder to drive it. Right now I am just doing my research.

[hellrotm]

GTR