No Joke: M3 vs Volvo S60/V60 Polestar

[Kief]

Originally Posted by Boss330

-It isn’t as settled as it’s rivals when driving fast. It feels like a “standard car that’s been souped up” according to some of the test drivers.

And isn't that what it is suppose to be?!?! Why they even compared this to the M3 and RS4, I'll never know! A better comparison (as I have said many times before) would be the S4 Avant and 335xi wagon (both of which we unfortunately don't get here)

-Volvo says that track driving never was a priority with this car, and that is felt in this company.

Exactly!

Thanks Boss for translating. I'm still excited to get my #49 V60 Polestar in Black. It's going to be the perfect sleeper wagon here in the States!

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The M4 trumps the two others (look at the point score ) in the "Special round - Sports car" category. They write that the M3 almost feels like it's from a different class than the two others...

Gee. I. Have. No. Idea. How. They. Came. To. That. Conclusion.

</sarcasm>

Strangest comparo yet.

M3 vs a sport wagon and a hot hatch. (I know, V60 is close to Rs4 than an S3 but....it is till a bit shrimpy).

But, when in Sweden I guess do as the swedes do.

OR as a certain culinary master would say, BORK BORK BORK!

Thanks for translating.

[peter_s]

Boss, let me know what you need help with. I can do a couple of pages if you want.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by peter_s

Boss, let me know what you need help with. I can do a couple of pages if you want.

Yes, please do if you have the time

[peter_s]

Sure thing, I'm a little swamped with work this week but I can do a little of it here and there.

Boss, is there anyway you can copy and paste the text into google translate (Swedish to english) and email me the text? That way I can just adjust the gramatical errors and not have to rewrite the whole thing.

email is p.s alfakröll sunco.se

[peter_s]

Quick update, I found a cool program that extracted the text from the pics.

Here is my take, it's run through google translate. I fixed the biggest mistakes, but I didn't care about the things that you would understand anyways. The grammar from google translate is a little bit iffy, but at least you can understand it:





------------------------------
Audi RS4 had suddenly gotten it a little convenient, after the biggest competitor from Munich went out of production. But while Mercedes is still at home developing a new car, a brand new BMW M3 is here. And as if that were not enough, there is also the fastest wagon from Volvo, V60 Polestar, at Volvo dealers right now!

BMW M3 is brand new from bumper to bumper. It has even changed the sacred N/A motor sat aside in favor of a turbo. And also shattered its personality in two: The M4 coupe to take on the Porsche 911 and the M3 is still named the slightly more family-friendly version with four doors. But it is not for their family car features that the new BMW M3 at 431 horsepower is so hotly anticipated!

Audi RS 4, introduced in 2012, sold only as the hatchback model Avant while customers who do not want more than two doors, see Coupe RS 5 heart is a high-revving V8 with 450 horsepower. Interestingly the RS 4, however started its career (except RS 2) with a biturbomatad six-cylinder engine ...

Mercedes? The fine 6.2-liter V8 is offered for a while longer in the C 63 AMG Coupe but otherwise it's the soon-featured C 63 AMG with a supercharged V8 that will compete in this test. But things have happened in Gothenburg. After many special models, some of which have not reached the street and some just Australian ones, and of course, countless engine modifications delivered to over 50 countries, finally a complete fully approved car from Polestar is here. With 350 horsepower, thus much closer to the Audi S4 and BMW 335i, Polestar have not focused on extreme engine performance, but more on usability year round. Still, it is the fastest Volvo in the program, with a base price of only 36 000 SEK (1 USB = ~ 7 SEK) lower than the BMW M3.

What can it do? The road network is open. And with a little luck maybe even a race track ahead. We throw ourselves over the keys! Already in the starting moment we are treated to more drama than in the cars tamer siblings. Digital logo-types of displays are talking, for example if it is an "M3 or a" Pole Star "you just brought to life. They really come alive when started, for all of the trio have extra flaps in their exhaust system which opened up at startup . Though they may soon close again due to the startup programs. reason? potency to be heard.

Under the three engine covers there are two different engine concepts represented. Audi stand out with a 4.2-liter, 90-degree long throw (bore 84,5 mm x stroke 92.8 min), direct-injection V8. The lightweight pistons are, like rods and forged crankshaft strengthened to withstand the forces. The crankcase has a ramlagerbrygga (some sort of stiffening of the crank bla bla bla... /Peter ed.) same reason. The engine delivers 450 horsepower at 8150 r / min and has a lap top (too funny to edit out ) on the 8500 Yes, yes - this is a small jewel among passenger car engines, and well worth its red-painted cylinder head - and maybe a tour of the garage for your mates or a guy looking at the gas station (and sounds maybe it's likely you'll order the extra carbon fiber hood for the engine at 6100 SEK). Meanwhile, the normally aspirated engine, a concept that is abandoned now even from supporters as the BMW M and Mercedes AMG. Why should we come back to the gas station. In the other two houses straight sixes on three liters with turbocharging. BMW was based on the existing architecture of the engine from the 335i / 435i - and then switched it all out. It has to be tough to be able to qualify as a M-motor. The block is new and more rigid kind with a strong mains. The crankshaft is new, forged, lighter and equipped with more counterweights. Rods, pistons, oil pumps - all designed for hard driving and high speeds. Not least with regard to the cooling of the water and oil, BMW has this time taken in both belt and braces, not to get into the zone where the 335i is (which has everything for small margins). The inlet air of the M3 is also water-cooled for greater consistency and less airway. One of the most important components are the two turbo wastegate valves instead of vacuum clocks are controlled more controlled electronically for better throttle response. The effect should be according to BMW at 431 horsepower from 5500 to 7300 r / min. Independent measurements have shown that it appears to be even stronger than that.

A look down into the engine room of the Volvo V60 Polestar makes you wonder if its really changed versus a standard V60 T6 AWD? Well, it has. Maybe not compared to the engine change to the Germans above, but a new intercooler has taken place in the nose. Furthermore, sits a new turbocharger in place, a twin-scroll, single-channel per three cylinders instead of two units. The effect is at 350 hp at 5250 r / min, but before you scoff: maximum torque of 500 newton meters and that is 70 more than what Audi develops at its best. However, BMW is the top dog at 550 newton meters.

When we roll off it is in the BMW you would rather be in for a nice drive. The craves namely the attention most. The engine sounds a lot (partly through the speakers) and the stiff bushings in the chassis reproduce the kind of base directly to the chair. How do you actually run these everyday? What about comfort? BMW M3 is the one that differs most against their living siblings and have the worst total comfort here. The main reason is the noise level. The tires are wide and the back of that it is built for maximum traction and minimal wobble which means that road noise transmitted into the body and that cracks in the read feels right through (iffy translation, they mean the ride is quite rough /Peter). In addition, BMW has decided to make it loud when accelerating, even in efficiency mode. The test-M3 have adaptive dampers (18 000 SEK) but even in comfort mode is a basic stiffness for all the little bumps on the top of the car. At higher speeds, however, the chassis and running, larger bumps taken good care of and on the highway it springs okay. The unique sports seats have firmer cushions than the Audi, which in turn is firmer than the Volvos. The M3 have the deepest seats, but we think that the driving position is excellent. Electric lumbar support is standard - something very unusual in a BMW. And in the evening light the little 'M' in the chair lights up. The rear seat ace remarkably hard. It's definitely a different cushion than the usual 3-series. Probably the lightest (BMW has made ​​efforts to make the newcomer lighter than its predecessor, namely), but we note another unexpected back with this cushion: You sit higher so the ceiling height will affect in a negative way!

[peter_s]

Volvo V60 Polestar has a much more pleasant sound. Road noise is well muffled and it sounds like there are nice bass notes from the sport exhaust system. You'll gladly listen to these. At higher speeds the noise meter reacts on the bass notes, but our ears do not suffer. The suspension, which consists of custom-made springs and dampers manufactured by Öhlins, is not as successful for comfort though. Softer bushings take up a part and give better comfort rolling over joints and the like, but small bumps feels direct and Volvo rock as much as the M3. V60 felt even more bouncy. Even at highway V60 feels more anxious. You sit in a soft and comfortable upholstered chair, with nice dishing of the back. As in a standard R-Design Chair. The back seat is the most comfortable of the trio, well-topped - but they are not retained in the curves, Nubuckklädseln (some type of leather I think /Peter) notwithstanding. That it is the most spacious is not wrong for comfort.

The suspension of the Audi RS4 manages to combine the best from BMW and Volvo. The Volvo's more forgiving bushings, helping over small. In addition, the (standard suspension despite) a harmonious, almost adaptive time not unlike that of the BMW. Firm, yet comfortable. Best here. The noise level is similar to the Volvo's and even quieter at higher speeds. The motor is loud during acceleration, but otherwise you could almost sit in a regular A4. It is tires that provides an additional decibel at 100 km / h. The well-shaped sports seats provide superb comfort, including extendable seat cushion - something that BMW has deleted, lo and behold. In the back sit quite firm and a bit low. But we like that the sports theme continues here, with nice dishing that hold passengers in place even when the driver gets a bout of driving pleasure. Which is easy in these cars.

The best total comfort is the Audi before Volvo and BMW finally we agree on when the caravan rolls on the road. "Audi drive select" which is the drive selector mode in the RS 4 - and the change is really quite big when the sportier mode selected. The sound from the exhaust "Bladam" comes when downshifting, even when driving normally. And that is quite difficult because the gearbox wants the V8 to work on the speed at which it thrives best reach your ears so beautiful tones that you do not want to release the gas. The double clutch gearbox is both smooth everyday and fast when it needs to be. If you do not like to change up front (just like in the Volvo), there are efficient paddles, even if someone thought they were a little bit fiddly in the otherwise solid interior. Upwards a 8300 r / min the gearbox pushes the engine to work in sport mode and move the red wagon very quickly over the landscape.

The turbocharged engine in the V60 Polestar obviously can not compete with such revolutions orgies, but is enjoyable in a different way. The 350 horsepower feels like more, in practice, on-road and it is understood that compensates nicely twisted. Exhaust sound from the new exhaust system (provider: Ferrita) edges on. Even greater for your mood is the modified automatic transmission. Higher operating pressure in it makes changing gears a joy and with a determination that at least reminiscent of a dual clutch transmission. It's not that fast but it is keen to change down even in position D, no complaints here. It's a pretty easy transmission for everyday, although subject to the higher oil pressure gives little nervous behavior during parking maneuvers. Volvo's paddle shifters are nice but sitting unusually close to the steering wheel. More than one test driver thought they could be in the way and was too easily accessed by mistake.

A leap over the BMW we get excited again. This car wants to be a racer! The engine has the most poisonous sound regardless of location. In the "Sport Plus" peal it on properly! How it sounds is hard to describe, you'll hear both a little of its predecessor's (V8) bass and even sounds from engines with fewer cylinders. Sometimes it goes straight six character only, bright sound push through. And at gasrelease at a slower pace, you can hear the turbo whistle. Nicest and coolest is the raspy sound from the four exhaust pipes that actually resembles before last M3 E46. Although it is a turbo engine, but for it to earn the M designation must be like to alternate and have good throttle response. If it does and if it has! It pays absolutely whipping up to 7300 r / min and throttle response is a neck jerking battle if you wish. Dual clutch transmission will cost the entire 36000 SEK extra, but also includes one more gear to get the car to feel more modern. Which of course is a matter of taste and we are the first to commend BMW for this choice between manual and "M DCT". It is very rare among new performance cars today. M DKG box goes really sporty to weigh in "Sport Plus", which it refuses to switch up before the red mark. It revs itself happily and then works the hearty, steering wheel-mounted paddles very well. It does everyday driving infinitely better than the old days SMC transmissions in the BMW, but compared to the Audi and Volvo may slightly bigger pauses and jerks occasionally noted in city traffic and during parking maneuvers.

Suspension and steering are of course just as important in cars like these and for many miles behind the wheel, and on both fixed and twisty roads we get a good view of the cars. Audi's four-wheel drive and its crown gear differential sends six tenths of the power to the rear wheels to give it a little help in the curves. The same aims a torque vectoring function too. By using individual engage the brakes to avoid any understeer almost before it occurs (and before a proper engagement of the ESP needs to). Audi is safe and is rock solid on the road. The control filters some information, but you can always correct and it feels just right.

Volvo V60 Polestar has a quicker steering, which feels good in itself. But it does not have the same peace and harmony when it goes fast. The suspension will never sit properly during hard driving, and the car can be perceived as bouncy. Some feel that the steering is too fast. So fast that it pulls to correct when one is already on the verge of a curve, the risk of overcompensating. Fun and fast, but where true harmony does not want to appear. Feels like "a sharpened regular car" as someone put it.

And BMW. Thanks! Suddenly it pays for weight slimming. Already in the first corner you understand why it was worth the sacrifice both sound isolation and comfort bushes as soft as marshmallows. It has a steering precision and road feel that the others simply does not reach. Each meter of road is communicated to the driver. Still, the steering is never wild or unruly. But the car feels wide, flat and with lateral grip in abundance. At least until you floor the pedal on an uneven surface. But then you only hit the comfort mode of the suspension, keep everything else and you have a really quick asphalt rally car.



It goes too fast too fast with these cars. Sooner or later you have to go to a track if you want to explore the boundaries. As we turn into Mantorp. Actually we planned for a lap time comparison with an independent STCC (Swedish touringcar championship /Peter) driver , which were canceled because of rain. But besides that, we certainly will return on the cars' capabilities on the track in the future.

Finally, Volvo V60 Polestar. The chassis is definitely creating some understeer. We want to get out and adjust the adjustable dampers. The nose feels light and steering willing initially but left foot braking is required to get it in from the excursion it finally takes when grip fails. Oddly enough, considering the comfort, it also felt a little too soft on the track. It also feels the powertrain is not made for the track primarily. One can see that the gearbox does not allow for the real rapid gear changes and the peak power fails at the top revs. The brake pedal softens gradually, but stopping ability is maintained pretty well anyway. Anti-skid system prevents wide slides for the photographer and - Polestar says the focus has never been track days. What we notice in this company.

Audi has a completely different confidence around Mantorp. Sure you feel the weight, but it does not matter for both the car steers well and is quite flat in the corners. You have to learn to drive it around corners and feel the torque vectoring system juggle to your advantage. Anti-skid system must be switched off if you want - and then the RS 4 show real balancing acts, but then they should really download the. Sport Mode in the gearbox could have been more aggressive, especially regarding the downshifts. The gears do not go in as hard as the M3, but fast enough. The brakes are surprisingly good, considering that it is the heaviest car here. Apparently they are not designed for it. The feeling is good, but they faded somewhat in the end. A fun car on the track is the RS 4 Avant anyway.

To sit in the BMW M3 after the others is like coming to a Super Touring Car! The M3 weighs 200 kg less than the second heaviest car (Volvo) - and trust that it shows. Meanwhile, all the body stiffning, and stiff bushings and springs to the cars right. It's clear that BMW knows that many M3 owners like driving on the track, just like the car once was designed to do. It controls well, accelerates like a beast and brakes excellent. The expensive composite brakes pays off on the track by giving wonderful bite while being almost indestructible. The chassis is neutral - until you accelerate too wildly. The electronically controlled limited slip clutch provides a softer lock than before, but with this approach, you keep your tongue in your mouth anyway if you intend to bid on drifting show. If you do, this is excellent.

Acccleration is clearly the sharpest with the M3: 100-200 km / h in two seconds quicker than the RS 4 and six seconds faster than the Pole Star. The factory time to 100 km / h could not be verified due to the test car had rolled only 800 miles and didn't have the launch control which is unlocked only after the first service. On the other hand you get a real life time on the speed of the M3 at red lights, in practice, because with so many criteria that must be met then teaches launch start will remain rare!


The races of the gang is the BMW M3. When we look at the economy and are looking beyond basic prices, we see bigger differences than initially. Although the V60 Polestar has the most expensive parts (!) And not the established resale value (natural) will be the cheapest to own. The fact is that well equipped its less than 140,000 SEK compared to an equally equipped M3, and even more for an Audi. But it is also no RS4 or M3. And we had guessed that it would assert itself even better comfort-wise. Polestar must wait for the snowflakes, then it definitely leaves the M3 behind at the red lights. But there is the Audi RS4, which is an incredibly complete package. It does it all very well. Except the economy (if it is relevant here?). The fine V8 drink more than the other two - regardless of driving. After the track outing the Audi showed 31.7 l / 100 km, Volvo and BMW 29.9 reps 25.8 - and as you can see on the test consumptions in the table pulls Audi clearly the most even in normal driving. Saving fuel with turbocharger technology is not just talk!

The sportiest car, the BMW M3 therefore wins this. BMW has approached the M3 with it's original thought and once again made an easy racer of it. Light? It might not be the first one owner of any of its predecessors come to mind, but yes, the competition today is the M3 light, hard, and hot-tempered. Maybe BMW scares away anyone who liked Gran tursmo properties of the predecessor and disqualifies the car too hard-headed and noisy. But the test team thinks that BMW made it right, for there is the 335i and 435i to choose from in that case. Certainly, there is room for a roughneck in the palette. And it has got the best gas milage - so it isn't completely irrelevant from daily demands!













----------------

Some odd bits in there gramatically, but you get the point, enjoy!

[Kief]

Originally Posted by peter_s

Quick update, I found a cool program that extracted the text from the pics.

Here is my take, it's run through google translate. I fixed the biggest mistakes, but I didn't care about the things that you would understand anyways. The grammar from google translate is a little bit iffy, but at least you can understand it:





------------------------------
Audi RS4 had suddenly gotten it a little convenient, after the biggest competitor from Munich went out of production. But while Mercedes is still at home developing a new car, a brand new BMW M3 is here. And as if that were not enough, there is also the fastest wagon from Volvo, V60 Polestar, at Volvo dealers right now!

BMW M3 is brand new from bumper to bumper. It has even changed the sacred N/A motor sat aside in favor of a turbo. And also shattered its personality in two: The M4 coupe to take on the Porsche 911 and the M3 is still named the slightly more family-friendly version with four doors. But it is not for their family car features that the new BMW M3 at 431 horsepower is so hotly anticipated!

Audi RS 4, introduced in 2012, sold only as the hatchback model Avant while customers who do not want more than two doors, see Coupe RS 5 heart is a high-revving V8 with 450 horsepower. Interestingly the RS 4, however started its career (except RS 2) with a biturbomatad six-cylinder engine ...

Mercedes? The fine 6.2-liter V8 is offered for a while longer in the C 63 AMG Coupe but otherwise it's the soon-featured C 63 AMG with a supercharged V8 that will compete in this test. But things have happened in Gothenburg. After many special models, some of which have not reached the street and some just Australian ones, and of course, countless engine modifications delivered to over 50 countries, finally a complete fully approved car from Polestar is here. With 350 horsepower, thus much closer to the Audi S4 and BMW 335i, Polestar have not focused on extreme engine performance, but more on usability year round. Still, it is the fastest Volvo in the program, with a base price of only 36 000 SEK (1 USB = ~ 7 SEK) lower than the BMW M3.

What can it do? The road network is open. And with a little luck maybe even a race track ahead. We throw ourselves over the keys! Already in the starting moment we are treated to more drama than in the cars tamer siblings. Digital logo-types of displays are talking, for example if it is an "M3 or a" Pole Star "you just brought to life. They really come alive when started, for all of the trio have extra flaps in their exhaust system which opened up at startup . Though they may soon close again due to the startup programs. reason? potency to be heard.

Under the three engine covers there are two different engine concepts represented. Audi stand out with a 4.2-liter, 90-degree long throw (bore 84,5 mm x stroke 92.8 min), direct-injection V8. The lightweight pistons are, like rods and forged crankshaft strengthened to withstand the forces. The crankcase has a ramlagerbrygga (some sort of stiffening of the crank bla bla bla... /Peter ed.) same reason. The engine delivers 450 horsepower at 8150 r / min and has a lap top (too funny to edit out ) on the 8500 Yes, yes - this is a small jewel among passenger car engines, and well worth its red-painted cylinder head - and maybe a tour of the garage for your mates or a guy looking at the gas station (and sounds maybe it's likely you'll order the extra carbon fiber hood for the engine at 6100 SEK). Meanwhile, the normally aspirated engine, a concept that is abandoned now even from supporters as the BMW M and Mercedes AMG. Why should we come back to the gas station. In the other two houses straight sixes on three liters with turbocharging. BMW was based on the existing architecture of the engine from the 335i / 435i - and then switched it all out. It has to be tough to be able to qualify as a M-motor. The block is new and more rigid kind with a strong mains. The crankshaft is new, forged, lighter and equipped with more counterweights. Rods, pistons, oil pumps - all designed for hard driving and high speeds. Not least with regard to the cooling of the water and oil, BMW has this time taken in both belt and braces, not to get into the zone where the 335i is (which has everything for small margins). The inlet air of the M3 is also water-cooled for greater consistency and less airway. One of the most important components are the two turbo wastegate valves instead of vacuum clocks are controlled more controlled electronically for better throttle response. The effect should be according to BMW at 431 horsepower from 5500 to 7300 r / min. Independent measurements have shown that it appears to be even stronger than that.

A look down into the engine room of the Volvo V60 Polestar makes you wonder if its really changed versus a standard V60 T6 AWD? Well, it has. Maybe not compared to the engine change to the Germans above, but a new intercooler has taken place in the nose. Furthermore, sits a new turbocharger in place, a twin-scroll, single-channel per three cylinders instead of two units. The effect is at 350 hp at 5250 r / min, but before you scoff: maximum torque of 500 newton meters and that is 70 more than what Audi develops at its best. However, BMW is the top dog at 550 newton meters.

When we roll off it is in the BMW you would rather be in for a nice drive. The craves namely the attention most. The engine sounds a lot (partly through the speakers) and the stiff bushings in the chassis reproduce the kind of base directly to the chair. How do you actually run these everyday? What about comfort? BMW M3 is the one that differs most against their living siblings and have the worst total comfort here. The main reason is the noise level. The tires are wide and the back of that it is built for maximum traction and minimal wobble which means that road noise transmitted into the body and that cracks in the read feels right through (iffy translation, they mean the ride is quite rough /Peter). In addition, BMW has decided to make it loud when accelerating, even in efficiency mode. The test-M3 have adaptive dampers (18 000 SEK) but even in comfort mode is a basic stiffness for all the little bumps on the top of the car. At higher speeds, however, the chassis and running, larger bumps taken good care of and on the highway it springs okay. The unique sports seats have firmer cushions than the Audi, which in turn is firmer than the Volvos. The M3 have the deepest seats, but we think that the driving position is excellent. Electric lumbar support is standard - something very unusual in a BMW. And in the evening light the little 'M' in the chair lights up. The rear seat ace remarkably hard. It's definitely a different cushion than the usual 3-series. Probably the lightest (BMW has made ​​efforts to make the newcomer lighter than its predecessor, namely), but we note another unexpected back with this cushion: You sit higher so the ceiling height will affect in a negative way!

Thanks Peter for taking the time to do this. I can't wait to find time to read it! Apparently a more realistic comparison between the S4 Avant and 335xi wagon is to be in the next SportAuto

[peter_s]

Originally Posted by Kief

Thanks Peter for taking the time to do this. I can't wait to find time to read it! Apparently a more realistic comparison between the S4 Avant and 335xi wagon is to be in the next SportAuto

Oh no!!

[JMN]

The S4 vs 335xi vs new Polestar will be interesting one; found this one: http://egmont-media.s3-website-eu-we...pdf/111702.pdf

[Kief]

Originally Posted by JMN

The S4 vs 335xi vs new Polestar will be interesting one; found this one: http://egmont-media.s3-website-eu-we...pdf/111702.pdf" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://egmont-media....111702.pdf</a>

Yeah, I can't wait to read about the S4, 335xi, Polestar matchup

The one you linked is just the standard V60 with a Polestar flash. Interesting how they would compare that to an S4 Avant.

BTW, I just realized who this was when I went over to Swedespeed!!!
I thought it was someone here not educated about the car lol

[JMN]

Yeah, just normal V60 with polestar flash but gives S4 numbers and pricing. Looks like polestar is just a hair quicker but also more expensive.

[Kief]

Well I picked one up! #62 out of 80 coming to the States

[TTG]

Congrats! I have been a member at Swedespeed for a very long time and I have been around Volvo's for quite sometime.

I think my Avatar somewhat gives that away :-)

Tell us what you think of the car.

If Volvo ever brings the real R models back I will definitely be ordering one.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by TTG

Congrats! I have been a member at Swedespeed for a very long time and I have been around Volvo's for quite sometime.

I think my Avatar somewhat gives that away :-)

Tell us what you think of the car.

If Volvo ever brings the real R models back I will definitely be ordering one.

Thanks!
My impressions and many more pics thus far are over on Swedespeed so you should check it out. And I started this Thread here:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1032962

BTW, that R comment is highly controversial ;-) Sort of like here between the E92M and F82 folk here...