M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by shamun160

Why not remove the artificial engine sound machine and put it there. I can't imagine this is the only spot this silly little device could have been placed. Smells of cost cutting.

If you're serious, you know very little about cars. The active sound is an amplifier mounted in the trunk.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111

Have both an aluminum Trek race bike and a Specialized carbon race bike....the carbon bike with its awkward/aero fat tube shape looks SOOOO SEXY...carbon all the way!!

Haha, sexy indeed. Last summer I helped my buddy out at his shop a few times building TT Cervelo's. They look ridiculous.

[shamun160]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

If you're serious, you know very little about cars. The active sound is an amplifier mounted in the trunk.

Not serious, but that is one hunk of crap from the cars that should be removed the car. I am sure the crafty Deutsch Engineers could have found some other reasonable spot to place the particulate filter. And why not the trunk for that matter, I believe the GTS has a little tank of water in there that feeds the intake at the opposite end of the car.

You my friend must not understand tongue in cheek.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by shamun160

Not serious, but that is one hunk of crap from the cars that should be removed the car. I am sure the crafty Deutsch Engineers could have found some other reasonable spot to place the particulate filter. And why not the trunk for that matter, I believe the GTS has a little tank of water in there that feeds the intake at the opposite end of the car.

You my friend must not understand tongue in cheek.

Um, the water tank isn't part of thw engine though......

[stormlv]

Coming from a 435d, to me, the worse news is the fact the that petrol particulate filter is going to be installed.

One thing that I disliked about my 435d was inconsistent performance at times, due to the DPF regeneration cycle (~500-700km)

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by stormlv

Coming from a 435d, to me, the worse news is the fact the that petrol particulate filter is going to be installed.

One thing that I disliked about my 435d was inconsistent performance at times, due to the DPF regeneration cycle (~500-700km)

Is it easy enough to just delete it?

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by Motodude310

Is it easy enough to just delete it?

Here it's illegal to do that.

[Motodude310]

Originally Posted by stormlv

Here it's illegal to do that.

Ah ok. Do we even know if these canisters will be installed on American cars? Also, in the states as ling as you can get the car registered you're good to go. Unless you live in Cali or New York you can get away with just about anything. So legality aside, easy to remove without a cel or other codes?

[JJSchmooze]

The only way to demonstrate to BMW our distaste for their lack luster decisions as of late, is to punish the brand by opting to purchase other vehicles. I'm sorry, but as a long long BMW enthusiast and one of their biggest fans, I have lost a lot of faith in the brand.

They are just going the wrong direction. (And for all the keyboard cowboys, this is my opinion which I am in my right to express here so no need for e-muscles)

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by JJSchmooze

The only way to demonstrate to BMW our distaste for their lack luster decisions as of late, is to punish the brand by opting to purchase other vehicles. I'm sorry, but as a long long BMW enthusiast and one of their biggest fans, I have lost a lot of faith in the brand.

They are just going the wrong direction. (And for all the keyboard cowboys, this is my opinion which I am in my right to express here so no need for e-muscles)

And that will only happen slowly. If at all. Leases last for years. Others are not ready to let go of their cars. BMW will not "experience the wrath" of unhappy owners for years to come, if at all. Lets be honest - even if you go to another brand... you're just 1. Maybe 100 from this forum do. Maybe 1000. There will be 1000 new buyers to fill that gap, who were unaware of the carbon driveshaft ever existing, and they will love their M3/M4, and will rave about it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've seen thousands of "BMW has lost me as a customer" threads, and guess what - BMW is still one of the most powerful brands in the world. Your little temper tantrum doesn't affect them at all.

[Motodude310]

Pisses me off too since I'm still waiting to order mine. Better believe that shit will be coming off.

[Conn 10m]

If the M car with a steel propshaft performs exactly the same as the old car then so be it. BMW will simply say that with new tech they can simply revert back to steel instead of carbon fibre.

Similarly if they can make a ZF box feel like a DCT, they will ditch that too. It seems like most cars now have a version of the ZF.

[hwelvaar]

LOL at many of the comments here.
The truth is car manufacturers simply need to comply with ever stricter regulations.

People here complaining about turbo's, electric steering, emission filters. You don't realize what's really coming at you.

You all know we're going all electric in the future?
I don't like it, I don't want it... But governments are signing laws today that by 2035 no petrol/diesel cars can be sold anymore, and 10 years later those will even be banned from the streets. Imagine how the market and manufacturers will respond to this. They'll phase out fossil fuel cars much earlier. Only some hypercar branded cars might last until the end, they will be able to cope with the burden and (by then) stigma of still being a fuel burner.

Stop whining about a cfrp or steel driveshaft. Seriously.
And drive em while you still can.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by conradb2

BMW cheaping out once again. CF drive shafts cost more than steel. Why not aluminum? I have an aluminum drive shaft in my Z06 Corvette that holds up just fine to 450lbs ft of torque, and could probably go up to about 550-600lbs ft. But aluminum is also more expensive than steel. Cheapskates...

The driveshaft on a Corvette needs to withstand much less torque than in the F8X because the transmission is mounted downstream. For example, in 1st gear in the CS/GTS, the driveshaft needs to cope with more than 1800 lb-ft of torque.

Further, on the Corvette, because the driveshaft spins much faster in the lower gears, it is even more critical for it to be light.

[Kevin M]

I want to see a taste test to see how many people can distinguish the steel vs CF driveshaft.

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

I want to see a taste test to see how many people can distinguish the steel vs CF driveshaft.

There isn't really a right or wrong to this scenario. Everyone has different ideals, but to me that's not the point.

Unless they lower the price of the car, they are taking away a significant selling point and just basically telling everyone that they are just going to have to except it while using marketing hype.

I'm not a racer, I don't track and I'll never claim to be some great driver, but if you tell me you're taking away something that everyone else has and charging me the same amount, I'm going to have a problem with that regardless of whether or not I notice the difference.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

There isn't really a right or wrong to this scenario. Everyone has different ideals, but to me that's not the point.

Unless they lower the price of the car, they are taking away a significant selling point and just basically telling everyone that they are just going to have to except it while using marketing hype.

I'm not a racer, I don't track and I'll never claim to be some great driver, but if you tell me you're taking away something that everyone else has and charging me the same amount, I'm going to have a problem with that regardless of whether or not I notice the difference.

I assume that the development cost and the parts cost of the petrol particulate filter is not something you care about, right?

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by stormlv

I assume that the development cost and the parts cost of the petrol particulate filter is not something you care about, right?

Not particularly, but if you want me to care about that, you at least have to disclose it. Do we even know there were any? Maybe their using one developed by another member of the cartel. I'm the consumer, it's not my job to care about BMW's costs and expenses related to their business practices.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Not particularly, but if you want me to care about that, you at least have to disclose it. Do we even know there were any? Maybe their using one developed by another member of the cartel. I'm the consumer, it's not my job to care about BMW's costs and expenses related to their business practices.

Even if they took a PPF developed by someone else, there are still going to be costs associated with it, in adapting it for the F8x platform.

Then there are the costs associated with research on the updated shaft.

Then, the PPF is surely going to cost a fair bit.
The DPF in the 435d is 2.4k EUR (~2800 USD). I'm assuming the PPF is going to hover in the same range.

On one side, you say that you feel cheated that they're not lowering the price, but when people try to point out that there are other associated costs with the change, you say it's not your job to care about their pricing practices...

All that I'm saying is that maybe the world is not just black and white.

And in any case it's not like it's a monopoly here where BMW can do whatever they want without repercussions.

There is strong competition in the segment and if they're going to cut corners here and there, they're going to lose clients to them.

I honestly would give BMW the benefit of the doubt when it comes to decisions like this.

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by stormlv

Even if they took a PPF developed by someone else, there are still going to be costs associated with it, in adapting it for the F8x platform.

Then there are the costs associated with research on the updated shaft.

Then, the PPF is surely going to cost a fair bit.
The DPF in the 435d is 2.4k EUR (~2800 USD). I'm assuming the PPF is going to hover in the same range.

On one side, you say that you feel cheated that they're not lowering the price, but when people try to point out that there are other associated costs with the change, you say it's not your job to care about their pricing practices...

All that I'm saying is that maybe the world is not just black and white.

And in any case it's not like it's a monopoly here where BMW can do whatever they want without repercussions.

There is strong competition in the segment and if they're going to cut corners here and there, they're going to lose clients to them.

I honestly would give BMW the benefit of the doubt when it comes to decisions like this.

I'm sure you're right about most, if not all, of that. I guess the difference is that I have a hard time giving a profit driven business that benefit.

Want to win my good graces? Drop the price for the remainder of the production run just a little. Then implement this in the next production. Otherwise, it's all about $$$.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by JJSchmooze

The only way to demonstrate to BMW our distaste for their lack luster decisions as of late, is to punish the brand by opting to purchase other vehicles. I'm sorry, but as a long long BMW enthusiast and one of their biggest fans, I have lost a lot of faith in the brand.

They are just going the wrong direction. (And for all the keyboard cowboys, this is my opinion which I am in my right to express here so no need for e-muscles)

As enthusiasts this is very true - M has lost its way in my opinion. So I have in fact bought other enthusiast cars in the last couple of years after owning 7 BMWs: Porsche GT4, Viper ACR-E, and, yes, a Camaro SS 1LE. Frankly, the Viper is in a league with $250,000+ cars on the track AND my $41k Camaro is just as fast or faster around the track as the GT4 and any M3 or M4. Such a cheap way to spank Euros; yes, it does amuse me at times.

However, BMW is motivated purely by profit, and as they sell more X1s, X3s, Minis, and crap, it seems that the once bright halo cars from M have been watered down. To be fair, Europe and government regulation make it harder and harder to make cars that I want and that truly perform at the track. And, many of us clamor for more comfort and tech in these M cars - which I personally reject but many seek. I mean really, executive package in an M2 and Nav and Idrive, etc. At least give us a true stripper option. You can't even delete the adjustable suspension on the M3/4 anymore. Sorry, I digress . . .

One day, sooner than we all probably think, we won't even be allowed to drive our own cars and they will have to be electric . . . .

I am praying the M2GTS is made and that it is truly special. Maybe a last tribute to what M use to be when I was a teenager in the '80s lusting for a girl named Shana and an M3, the coolest car in existence to my eye!!!

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Vintage

As enthusiasts this is very true - M has lost its way in my opinion. So I have in fact bought other enthusiast cars in the last couple of years after owning 7 BMWs: Porsche GT4, Viper ACR-E, and, yes, a Camaro SS 1LE. Frankly, the Viper is in a league with $250,000+ cars on the track AND my $41k Camaro is just as fast or faster around the track as the GT4 and any M3 or M4. Such a cheap way to spank Euros; yes, it does amuse me at times.

However, BMW is motivated purely by profit, and as they sell more X1s, X3s, Minis, and crap, it seems that the once bright halo cars from M have been watered down. To be fair, Europe and government regulation make it harder and harder to make cars that I want and that truly perform at the track. And, many of us clamor for more comfort and tech in these M cars - which I personally reject but many seek. I mean really, executive package in an M2 and Nav and Idrive, etc. At least give us a true stripper option. You can't even delete the adjustable suspension on the M3/4 anymore. Sorry, I digress . . .

One day, sooner than we all probably think, we won't even be allowed to drive our own cars and they will have to be electric . . . .

I am praying the M2GTS is made and that it is truly special. Maybe a last tribute to what M use to be when I was a teenager in the '80s lusting for a girl named Shana and an M3, the coolest car in existence to my eye!!!

Beautifully written