M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Vintage

As enthusiasts this is very true - M has lost its way in my opinion. So I have in fact bought other enthusiast cars in the last couple of years after owning 7 BMWs: Porsche GT4, Viper ACR-E, and, yes, a Camaro SS 1LE. Frankly, the Viper is in a league with $250,000+ cars on the track AND my $41k Camaro is just as fast or faster around the track as the GT4 and any M3 or M4. Such a cheap way to spank Euros; yes, it does amuse me at times.

However, BMW is motivated purely by profit, and as they sell more X1s, X3s, Minis, and crap, it seems that the once bright halo cars from M have been watered down. To be fair, Europe and government regulation make it harder and harder to make cars that I want and that truly perform at the track. And, many of us clamor for more comfort and tech in these M cars - which I personally reject but many seek. I mean really, executive package in an M2 and Nav and Idrive, etc. At least give us a true stripper option. You can't even delete the adjustable suspension on the M3/4 anymore. Sorry, I digress . . .

One day, sooner than we all probably think, we won't even be allowed to drive our own cars and they will have to be electric . . . .

I am praying the M2GTS is made and that it is truly special. Maybe a last tribute to what M use to be when I was a teenager in the '80s lusting for a girl named Shana and an M3, the coolest car in existence to my eye!!!

Umm yes you can get rid of the adaptive suspension?

What are you taking about?

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Umm yes you can get rid of the adaptive suspension?

What are you taking about?

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

Don't let cherry picking one mistake in the post make you miss the entire point of it.

[jim996]

Originally Posted by Doctor///M

...for a drive shaft? Wishful thinking.

If I have to explain the joke then it's probably wasted on you you mong

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by minn19

Don't let cherry picking one mistake in the post make you miss the entire point of it.

Did not miss the point, but does not mean I have to agree. And when his prime example supporting his premise is wrong it devalues his credibility. We get it you love your GT350, does not mean everyone hates the F80/2 as much as you, which has pointed out to you in other posts. We can all agree to disagree. I mean, dont I daily a Camaro? Yeah, does not mean I agree with all the naysayers after having owned every iteration of the M3 and having the F80 in order.

But I am one of those pesky people that like technological progress and new technology. I guess I should be stoned huh.

EDIT: after re reading my post it may come off as passive aggressive, my bad

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

As for why, the PPF probably gets hot. If for packaging reasons it needs to sit close to the driveshaft, I can see why they would swap to steel. CF doesn't like heat.

This.

I get the love for the CRFP shaft, but while everyone is moaning about cost-cutting, I also suspect there was a technical aspect to it as well.

At the end of the day steel is far more durable, can take on more heat, and isn't an arm and a leg to repair/replace.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Porsche 991.2 uses steel driveshafts.

[ArieArie]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

I want to see a taste test to see how many people can distinguish the steel vs CF driveshaft.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

This.

I get the love for the CRFP shaft, but while everyone is moaning about cost-cutting, I also suspect there was a technical aspect to it as well.

At the end of the day steel is far more durable, can take on more heat, and isn't an arm and a leg to repair/replace.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Porsche 991.2 uses steel driveshafts.

Just for the sake of being devils advocate though, why replace the CF driveshaft that was a selling point of the car prior to fitting the new PPF? Sure - I get it that to install the PPF needs the CF driveshaft replaced with steel. Fine - replace it with steel *when* you install the PPF - why "start preparing now" when no PPF is being installed?

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Just for the sake of being devils advocate though, why replace the CF driveshaft that was a selling point of the car prior to fitting the new PPF? Sure - I get it that to install the PPF needs the CF driveshaft replaced with steel. Fine - replace it with steel *when* you install the PPF - why "start preparing now" when no PPF is being installed?

I wonder if the manufacture costs to switch over are more expensive if done at the same time the gradually worked in given supplier contracts. Also maybe they want to work out any manufacturing kinks before hand.

[Vintage]

sorry guys - I really could have sworn that adaptive was now standard on the M3/M4s - sorry I was wrong but I thought STANDARD SUSPENSION just softened the ride as stated by BMWs website; I trust you experts

not ranting, just in morning as I really just want my favorite brand producing the most desired driver cars again AND just went to M school/drive at COTA and enjoyed the wheel time and getting to know the current M cars a little better

really liked the M3 with all the M performance goodies - no hater; well, maybe I hate the government regulation a tad . . . the 2018 M4 I drove had a re-valved suspension and it was unhappy (this, according BMWNA instructors)

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by shamun160

Wrong again actually, thanks for proving my point that you know nothing about cars and probably don't even own one of the models listed on this site.
"Tongue and cheek", as you so eloquently described it, is something 90% of the posters here should exercise, yourself included. Although I guess the Internet wouldn't be a pleasant place to read things if all the information was positive, true and accurate?
Cheers.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Vintage

sorry guys - I really could have sworn that adaptive was now standard on the M3/M4s - sorry I was wrong

not ranting, just in morning as I really just want my favorite brand producing the most desired driver cars again AND just went to M school/drive at COTA and enjoyed the wheel time and getting to know the current M cars a little better

really liked the M3 with all the M performance goodies - no hater; well, maybe I hate the government regulation a tad . . . the 2018 M4 I drove had a re-valved suspension and it was unhappy (this, according BMWNA instructors)

Adaptive suspension is now indeed standard. But the non-adaptive can still be ordered as a no-cost option.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Did not miss the point, but does not mean I have to agree. And when his prime example supporting his premise is wrong it devalues his credibility. We get it you love your GT350, does not mean everyone hates the F80/2 as much as you, which has pointed out to you in other posts. We can all agree to disagree. I mean, dont I daily a Camaro? Yeah, does not mean I agree with all the naysayers after having owned every iteration of the M3 and having the F80 in order.

But I am one of those pesky people that like technological progress and new technology. I guess I should be stoned huh.

EDIT: after re reading my post it may come off as passive aggressive, my bad

No prob and I know it comes off that way, but I actually don't hate the current M3/4. I really like them and I think they could be really really fantastic cars if BMW just changed a couple of things.

But they refuse to and are doing weird stuff like this. Instead of just tweaking the car to make it better they release more expensive special editions every year that promise to bring back that special ///M feeling again. Meanwhile they are openly fleecing their previous customers getting them to trade up to each of these more expensive models. I'm no business expert, but I don't know how long they can keep up this kind of model before people have had enough and leave the brand.

I do love my GT350, but I've been very open about it's shortcomings. It has a great (one of the best) drivers experience at the expense of refinement and other things. There are a lot of great choices out there right now, but I don't know of any car that does both extremely well anymore. This is why I think the E9X drivers constantly lament the loss of something because it seems like that car was one that had the perfect blend of both.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Adaptive suspension is now indeed standard. But the non-adaptive can still be ordered as a no-cost option.

Thanks for helping the ignorant!

[Gibson6594]

Some of us are just different breeds. I could give a good god damn about BMW's R&D costs. I care about my wallet. And if I'm paying the same price for something for which other people received more, my wallet will think twice about where it opens.

[ArieArie]

Here is how I see it (My personal opinion/guess, based on the little material available about the change).

BMW needs to comply with some new EU regulations to reduce particles in the exhaust gasses .
In the case of the F80s they chose to add filters in the exhaust pipes.
apparently there is not enough space to add them underneath the car without major modifications, especially considering that this generation of car will be in production for only another year or two.

So to make room for the filters, they elected to replace the carbon fiber drive shaft which has a wide diameter with a steel shaft that can be make with smaller in diameter and still perform as well as the CF shaft. The biggest hit for BMW is in the marketing of the F80s cars. As far as real life differences, the steel shaft could be a bit heavier and if it is engineered well, there's a chance it would be more expensive to make (must be light, strong, and perfectly balances).

After all, BMW makes cars to make money, The CF shaft was put in there originally because they could differentiates the car from its competition. I doubt any daily driver of these M cars would be able to tell the difference between the steel and carbon fiber shaft.

That said, I'm glad my car is on a boat to the US. I like to be able to say, "hey, my car has a carbon fiber drive shaft". oooh!

[Pyrat 2]

I missed it. Are they passing on the cost savings to the consumer in the form of a lower MSRP?

[ArieArie]

Originally Posted by Pyrat 2

I missed it. Are they passing on the cost savings to the consumer in the form of a lower MSRP?

After adding those filters and adding yet another kit of parts to the inventory, I doubt there are going to be any savings.

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by ArieArie

After adding those filters and adding yet another kit of parts to the inventory, I doubt there are going to be any savings.

I was kidding. When was the last time you saw any car manufacturer reduce the MSRP. They will add the lower cost drive shaft first and then later when required will add the extra parts. So the interim cost savings will go straight from the customers pocket straight to the bottom line of the company. Good if you are a shareholder. Bad if you are a customer.

[shamun160]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

Wow. You win and I submit to your supremacy.

[trey100]

Although I doubt there will be any real performance difference, having the CF shaft definitely was a "cool" features on the M3/M4. My guess is this has more to do with making the more expensive CS seem more special.

[gatorfast]

No more CF drive shift?! There goes the entire reason to buy the car.