Would you say getting an M car is a downgrade from a Porsche?

[F83]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Let me break it down using more lay man terminology.

BMW M4 = Old Navy
Porsche 911 = Gap

Mmmmmkay?

That kind of says to me... they both suck

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by F83

That kind of says to me... they both suck

Not a great analogy at all.

Porsche = Rolex or AP
BMW = Hamilton

[hellrotm]

One for the ladies:

Porsche = Chanel
BMW = Coach

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

One for the ladies:

Porsche = Chanel
BMW = Coach

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Not a great analogy at all.

Porsche = Rolex or AP
BMW = Hamilton

Those are pretty rough on BMW. They're at least Omega and Louis Vuitton. Hamilton and Coach level is probably Volkswagen

[///M4ster Yoda]

BMW = Breitling

[Egrunt]

Today I went to test drive a 2017 Porsche 911 Carerra 4and 2017 911 Carrera S. My 2015 F80 is stock with just under 18k miles with a DCT. Both 911's were PDK with sport exhaust and sport chrono package. I respect the 911 but I left the dealership thinking I will keep my F80 for a bit longer. The 2017 911 Carrera 4 felt as though the car handled better in the corners (according to my wife). My wife and I both felt as though the 911 Carrera 4 was slower then our F80. Even the 2017 Carrera S by the seat of the pants felt slower then our F80. I thought it was close but my wife said it felt slower. Now I understand there is more to a vehicle then just acceleration.

The 2017 Carrera 4 with just over 2k miles was listed at $105k and the 2017 911 S was listed at $110K with 15k miles.

One thing I know is if I make the transition to a 911 I will have to go with a 911 S.

My personal belief there is no downgrade going with a BMW over a Porsche. With that being said Porsche has the name recognition and heritage and most would consider the Porsche over the BMW the better car.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

Today I went to test drive a 2017 Porsche 911 Carerra 4and 2017 911 Carrera S. My 2015 F80 is stock with just under 18k miles with a DCT. Both 911's were PDK with sport exhaust and sport chrono package. I respect the 911 but I left the dealership thinking I will keep my F80 for a bit longer. The 2017 911 Carrera 4 felt as though the car handled better in the corners (according to my wife). My wife and I both felt as though the 911 Carrera 4 was slower then our F80. Even the 2017 Carrera S by the seat of the pants felt slower then our F80. I thought it was close but my wife said it felt slower. Now I understand there is more to a vehicle then just acceleration.

The 2017 Carrera 4 with just over 2k miles was listed at $105k and the 2017 911 S was listed at $110K with 15k miles.

One thing I know is if I make the transition to a 911 I will have to go with a 911 S.

My personal belief there is no downgrade going with a BMW over a Porsche. With that being said Porsche has the name recognition and heritage and most would consider the Porsche over the BMW the better car.

Where you actually able to get on it and did you?

I have a 17 F80 ZCP and it is no where near as quick as a base 991.2. The base is around 3.4ish to 60 and 1.06 on the skid pad.

The acceleration feel is much smoother in a Porsche and, frankly, in any high end performance sports car.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

Where you actually able to get on it and did you?

I have a 17 F80 ZCP and it is no where near as quick as a base 991.2. The base is around 3.4ish to 60 and 1.06 on the skid pad.

The acceleration feel is much smoother in a Porsche and, frankly, in any high end performance sports car.

Totally agree. My 991.2S is much faster than either my F80 M3 or F82 M4 were and when you added speed and handling it got even more lopsided in favor of the 911. A base 911 is a bit faster than the M3/4 too even though it lacks in HP.
The 911 has a much better and more refined engine with more linear power vs what I’d describe as “sloppy” in the s55 in how it makes power.
Even a 718 S is as fast in a straight as the M and much better on track stock against stock.

[Fender150]

I couldnt get myself to do it knowing the carrera is about 60-70 hp down depending on the model, i know there is more to it than that. But for $30-40K
bringing the price of a 370bhp car to $105k no thank you

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Fender150

I couldnt get myself to do it knowing the carrera is about 60-70 hp down depending on the model, i know there is more to it than that. But for $30-40K
bringing the price of a 370bhp car to $105k no thank you

I've test driven Porsche's and felt the same. Way too much Cashola for an underpowered car. I get that it's more then that but come on. Spending well over 100k to get taken at a stoplight by a Nissan (Infiniti) is ridiculous.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I've test driven Porsche's and felt the same. Way too much Cashola for an underpowered car. I get that it's more then that but come on. Spending well over 100k to get taken at a stoplight by a Nissan (Infiniti) is ridiculous.

This logic doesn’t make sense to me. None of them feel underpowered at all. A base 911 runs high 11s in the quarter mile at 118 mph - and does so with 370 hp. On track they are even faster. A Carrera S is a mid 11 second car and traps well into the 120s. It’s faster in summer tires than the M4 GTS is on cups and is still wel down on both power and torque. To me that only proves everyone else is doing it wrong. On top of that, the quality and finishing and value retention are second to none.
Last I checked, a GTR with 565 hp is barely faster than a Carrera S and slower than a 911 GTS which still also has 115 hp less. Again, to me, sounds like everyone else is just doing a whole lot of nothing with all that extra power.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I've test driven Porsche's and felt the same. Way too much Cashola for an underpowered car. I get that it's more then that but come on. Spending well over 100k to get taken at a stoplight by a Nissan (Infiniti) is ridiculous.

What are you talking about?

What Nissan is overtaking a modern 911? Let's even be conservative here and say you go Carrera S which runs a 4.1 0-60. Only stock Nissan touching that is a GTR. Agree P-cars are not the best power/price value and comparing to an F8X in terms of performance is fair but not following your Nissan logic here.

[Rampant]

All this talk about bhp.
Get your heads out of your arses.
Its the *performance* figures you need to be comparing, not the peak power output, which, let's face it, is just a silly game for non-petrol-head dummies.
Oh, and by the way. Porsche official bhp figures have *always* been ultra conservative. I thought every petrol-head knew that.

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

This logic doesn’t make sense to me. None of them feel underpowered at all. A base 911 runs high 11s in the quarter mile at 118 mph - and does so with 370 hp. O.

That's a very recent thing with the 991.2

The previous base 911 were most definitely much too slow in a straight line for the $

Edit: I disagree Rampant, the straightline acceleration (and the hp, weight and 1/4 mile discussion that accompanies) matters and is where the fun comes from, unless you're at the circuit.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

That's a very recent thing with the 991.2

The previous base 911 were most definitely much too slow in a straight line for the $

Edit: I disagree Rampant, the straightline acceleration (and the hp, weight and 1/4 mile discussion that accompanies) matters and is where the fun comes from, unless you're at the circuit.

If you’re talking about one car as a NA car vs another with turbos then there’s little in terms of comparison, especially when the turbo cars usually make more power than their ratings suggest.
I don’t think the NA 991 S was slow at all either. 11.9@117-119 mph isn’t slow in my book, especially when you consider it only has 400 hp. It was a car that you had to work in the rev range though - similar to how Ferrari and M cars used to be except neither of them made a 400 HP car that was that fast. On top of that, the 991.1 was released like 6-7 years ago. Now with the 991.2 they have probably the best FI motors on the market.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

That's a very recent thing with the 991.2

The previous base 911 were most definitely much too slow in a straight line for the $

Edit: I disagree Rampant, the straightline acceleration (and the hp, weight and 1/4 mile discussion that accompanies) matters and is where the fun comes from, unless you're at the circuit.

This

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

If you’re talking about one car as a NA car vs another with turbos then there’s little in terms of comparison, especially when the turbo cars usually make more power than their ratings suggest.
I don’t think the NA 991 S was slow at all either. 11.9@117-119 mph isn’t slow in my book, especially when you consider it only has 400 hp. It was a car that you had to work in the rev range though - similar to how Ferrari and M cars used to be except neither of them made a 400 HP car that was that fast. On top of that, the 991.1 was released like 6-7 years ago. Now with the 991.2 they have probably the best FI motors on the market.

$60k 4dr 5 seats m3 sedan or a $130k 2+2 991.1 S sports car both trap 117-119mph

Whatever the lap times or feel suggest, if those cars get into a roll race, not sure 991.1s will pull away, and that's enough for me to take a PASS on that car

If I pay $130k for a sports car, it better be able to blow the doors of any 5 door commuter car that's half the price, in any situation.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

$60k 4dr 5 seats m3 sedan or a $130k 2+2 991.1 S sports car both trap 117-119mph

Whatever the lap times or feel suggest, if those cars get into a roll race, not sure 991.1s will pull away, and that's enough for me to take a PASS on that car

If I pay $130k for a sports car, it better be able to blow the doors of any 5 door commuter car that's half the price, in any situation.

And This

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

$60k 4dr 5 seats m3 sedan or a $130k 2+2 991.1 S sports car both trap 117-119mph

Whatever the lap times or feel suggest, if those cars get into a roll race, not sure 991.1s will pull away, and that's enough for me to take a PASS on that car

If I pay $130k for a sports car, it better be able to blow the doors of any 5 door commuter car that's half the price, in any situation.

EXACTLY. I’ve been saying this for years on this board when ever the inevitable M3/M4 vs 991 comparatives heat up. The two are at completely different price points with different design intents and 991 better do some things better given the massive price delta. Some people struggle with this basic concept, however.

[Horns0897]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

$60k 4dr 5 seats m3 sedan or a $130k 2+2 991.1 S sports car both trap 117-119mph

Whatever the lap times or feel suggest, if those cars get into a roll race, not sure 991.1s will pull away, and that's enough for me to take a PASS on that car

If I pay $130k for a sports car, it better be able to blow the doors of any 5 door commuter car that's half the price, in any situation.

MSRP is 63 vs 97 for the models in question. Still a substantial gap but not close to double as you show. Also to note the 991.1 S laps the ring in essentially the same time as the M4 GTS. What is the GTS MSRP? The fact is the M3/4 is a great car and value. A 911 it is not just like a Camaro is a great value but an M it is not.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Horns0897

MSRP is 63 vs 97 for the models in question. Still a substantial gap but not close to double as you show. Also to note the 991.1 S laps the ring in essentially the same time as the M4 GTS. What is the GTS MSRP? The fact is the M3/4 is a great car and value. A 911 it is not just like a Camaro is a great value but an M it is not.

Option a 911 to have similar options to an M3 and you are closer to 1.8 times the cost of the M3/4. Haha at least for me. I want all the goodies, lots of which are stock or not that expensive on the M3/4

[Darth One]

Gonna be hard to find a sports car if you refuse to buy one that a $60k sedan can't keep up with....since the Charger Hellcat exists


(Although the answer is actually Porsche - the Turbo S )