bootmod3 for BMW F series Vehicles - General Discussion

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

What’s the difference between GTs map, CS and CSL map from free section????

They're based on the OEM re-mapping from BMW.

I believe they all run a little more boost, however the CS runs more timing than the GTS.

The CSL, I cannot comment on

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by SinatraM

ok thanks man, gonna disable cold start shit is loud af lol

No problem!

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Justin.AutoTalent

They're based on the OEM re-mapping from BMW.

I believe they all run a little more boost, however the CS runs more timing than the GTS.

The CSL, I cannot comment on

Are they CS-like/GTS-like maps that were developed by BM3 to mimic the OEM CS or GTS maps or are they true, OEM CS/GTS maps that were "reverse engineered" to make it available for public? In other words, are the tables of BM3 CS tune exactly the same as the tables of an M4 CS from factory?

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Are they CS-like/GTS-like maps that were developed by BM3 to mimic the OEM CS or GTS maps or are they true, OEM CS/GTS maps that were "reverse engineered" to make it available for public? In other words, are the tables of BM3 CS tune exactly the same as the tables of an M4 CS from factory?

Just playing devils advocate here, but what's the difference? In order to "mimic" a CS or GTS map, you need to have "reverse engineered" the OEM readout/dump in the first place. Unless by "mimic" you mean that a tune was created to provide similar power gains as a CS or GTS map but isn't based on BMW's exact tuning/changes.

So to clarify, and excuse me for this long explanation but I thought it might be helpful as I've seen this question atleast a dozen times lately LOL. The OEM factory ZCP CS GTS readouts/dumps are available to most tuners. Heck you can even get them yourself if you know where to look for them and who to ask for them. Now once you have that file and have the knowledge and necessary resources to map the different tables for that file version, you will be able to see all the changes differences in those tables between the different versions.

So to get to answering your question. It is not possible to simply take that original file, in its un-tampered form, and simply flash it to any car. You can flash it and the car will start, but it will be stuck in limp mode. The reason for that is because it will detect that you don't have the necessary FSC code to be running a ZCP or CS or GTS software in your non-zcp car. I know because I actually tried it LOL. So to get around that you have two options basically. Either somehow be able to have BMW sell you that FSC code (not sure if it's possible, but there have been people claiming that they can get it for you for a lot of $$$$), or "tamper" with that file to make it flashable to any version of the S55.

Now that we have established that in any case to flash a CS or GTS map on a standard S55 you need to have tampered with the map, there is more than one way to make that map available for flashing:

You can take that same original file and manipulate it to make it flashable on any car as well as alter any necessary tables such as those relating to the Oil Level Sensor and Water Injection in the case of the GTS file (since they are not applicable to your standard S55). With this method your "base file" if you will, will be a GTS file. So once your car gets flashed (which will have to be a full flash, i.e. bootloader, calibration data etc) it will be flashed with a GTS specific calibration software version. Which is identifiable from it's version/identification number. For instance, all non-zcp software have a calibration data identification number starting with 260x-xxx.... So when you are reading your cars details or doing a readout whether its via BM3, Frieling software (VF, BPM etc), or BMW Tools, you will be able to identify your DME software as a GTS base file. Albeit GTS and ZCP share the same initial sequence, 260 however is specific for non-zcp. There is nothing necessarily wrong with doing it that way as long as it's done properly. Some tuners for instance even use a GTS base file to start with when creating their stage 1 or 2 tunes etc. So a lot of people with a non-zcp running those tuner's tunes have a GTS software on their car that has been further modified to create a Stage X tune.

The other way is to take that same original readout/dump of a OEM GTS file, but then import all the changes in that file (compared to a non-zcp file) into a non-zcp file or ZCP file if you wish for someone with a ZCP F8X (excluding the changes that you don't want such as the Water Injection tables). The end result is exactly the same, done correctly both will have the same tables/changes and will perform the same. The only difference will be that one will be based on a manipulated/tampered GTS base file, and the other will be based on a manipulated/tampered non-zcp or ZCP base file.

Now which method PTF uses I don't know, nor do I think it matters. But knowing a bit about how BM3 works and how it creates tunes for you based on your original software, I'd assume they use the second method.

So I went and took an original un-tampered OEM GTS 4MB full readout file and added it to my account. I then imported the BM3 GTS tune on top of it to see if there are any differences. Out of the hundreds of tables visible on BM3 it identified 6 tables that had differences. 4 of those where to do with burbles (out of the 38 burble tables visible) as they have changed the cutoff speed for example to raise it to 100km/h vs the stock 80km/h. There were two other tables relating to Boost (out of the 48 tables visible) that also had some changes. This shows that they are identical except for the changes in Boost which I honestly cannot say what the purpose is for, but I'm guessing might be necessary to account for the fact that you don't have Water Injection. There are probably more changes between the two files other than the 6 I'm seeing since there are tables that are not meant to be messed with which are not visible on BM3. Some of those will be the Oil Level Sensor and Water Injection tables.




So if you mean by "mimic" as in a "custom tune" created by PTF/BM3 to mimic similar power outputs as the CS or GTS OEM maps, then the answer is NO. It is not a mimic in that sense. It is basically the same OEM BMW tune but "reverse engineered" and manipulated to be flashable for your car. They are pretty much identical to the factory OEM BMW map/tables except for some necessary changes that I explained above.

[whoop_ass]

thanks very much for explanation BuLoOoSki

as you mentioned it could never be the exact file as it needs to work with your software version.

[R1-Racer]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

How do you navigate to this editor?

[ABoodiM4]

Originally Posted by Justin.AutoTalent

They're based on the OEM re-mapping from BMW.

I believe they all run a little more boost, however the CS runs more timing than the GTS.

The CSL, I cannot comment on

Thank u, but which one has more burbles: louder CS or GtS? Map

[ABoodiM4]

I can still disable cold start even if I don’t have downpipes right??

[trackymbf82]

Yes, cold start can be disabled with cats.

[ABoodiM4]

Originally Posted by bculberson

Yes, cold start can be disabled with cats.

Is it true that with akaprovic exhaust slip on system Your secondaries being gone will relieve a lot of pressure and therefore u can still do stage 2,91 octane AGG worhout downpipes? Because I’m getting mixed answers

[SinatraM]

ok so if I have a stock 2015 M4 , I can flash cs or GTS tunes and run completely fine no issues ? on Stg1 93 atm

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Just playing devils advocate here, but what's the difference? In order to "mimic" a CS or GTS map, you need to have "reverse engineered" the OEM readout/dump in the first place. Unless by "mimic" you mean that a tune was created to provide similar power gains as a CS or GTS map but isn't based on BMW's exact tuning/changes.

So to clarify, and excuse me for this long explanation but I thought it might be helpful as I've seen this question atleast a dozen times lately LOL. The OEM factory ZCP CS GTS readouts/dumps are available to most tuners. Heck you can even get them yourself if you know where to look for them and who to ask for them. Now once you have that file and have the knowledge and necessary resources to map the different tables for that file version, you will be able to see all the changes differences in those tables between the different versions.

So to get to answering your question. It is not possible to simply take that original file, in its un-tampered form, and simply flash it to any car. You can flash it and the car will start, but it will be stuck in limp mode. The reason for that is because it will detect that you don't have the necessary FSC code to be running a ZCP or CS or GTS software in your non-zcp car. I know because I actually tried it LOL. So to get around that you have two options basically. Either somehow be able to have BMW sell you that FSC code (not sure if it's possible, but there have been people claiming that they can get it for you for a lot of $$$$), or "tamper" with that file to make it flashable to any version of the S55.

Now that we have established that in any case to flash a CS or GTS map on a standard S55 you need to have tampered with the map, there is more than one way to make that map available for flashing:

You can take that same original file and manipulate it to make it flashable on any car as well as alter any necessary tables such as those relating to the Oil Level Sensor and Water Injection in the case of the GTS file (since they are not applicable to your standard S55). With this method your "base file" if you will, will be a GTS file. So once your car gets flashed (which will have to be a full flash, i.e. bootloader, calibration data etc) it will be flashed with a GTS specific calibration software version. Which is identifiable from it's version/identification number. For instance, all non-zcp software have a calibration data identification number starting with 260x-xxx.... So when you are reading your cars details or doing a readout whether its via BM3, Frieling software (VF, BPM etc), or BMW Tools, you will be able to identify your DME software as a GTS base file. Albeit GTS and ZCP share the same initial sequence, 260 however is specific for non-zcp. There is nothing necessarily wrong with doing it that way as long as it's done properly. Some tuners for instance even use a GTS base file to start with when creating their stage 1 or 2 tunes etc. So a lot of people with a non-zcp running those tuner's tunes have a GTS software on their car that has been further modified to create a Stage X tune.

The other way is to take that same original readout/dump of a OEM GTS file, but then import all the changes in that file (compared to a non-zcp file) into a non-zcp file or ZCP file if you wish for someone with a ZCP F8X (excluding the changes that you don't want such as the Water Injection tables). The end result is exactly the same, done correctly both will have the same tables/changes and will perform the same. The only difference will be that one will be based on a manipulated/tampered GTS base file, and the other will be based on a manipulated/tampered non-zcp or ZCP base file.

Now which method PTF uses I don't know, nor do I think it matters. But knowing a bit about how BM3 works and how it creates tunes for you based on your original software, I'd assume they use the second method.

So I went and took an original un-tampered OEM GTS 4MB full readout file and added it to my account. I then imported the BM3 GTS tune on top of it to see if there are any differences. Out of the hundreds of tables visible on BM3 it identified 6 tables that had differences. 4 of those where to do with burbles (out of the 38 burble tables visible) as they have changed the cutoff speed for example to raise it to 100km/h vs the stock 80km/h. There were two other tables relating to Boost (out of the 48 tables visible) that also had some changes. This shows that they are identical except for the changes in Boost which I honestly cannot say what the purpose is for, but I'm guessing might be necessary to account for the fact that you don't have Water Injection. There are probably more changes between the two files other than the 6 I'm seeing since there are tables that are not meant to be messed with which are not visible on BM3. Some of those will be the Oil Level Sensor and Water Injection tables.




So if you mean by "mimic" as in a "custom tune" created by PTF/BM3 to mimic similar power outputs as the CS or GTS OEM maps, then the answer is NO. It is not a mimic in that sense. It is basically the same OEM BMW tune but "reverse engineered" and manipulated to be flashable for your car. They are pretty much identical to the factory OEM BMW map/tables except for some necessary changes that I explained above.

I appreciate the detailed response. Of course certain changes and tweaks necessary to make original read out flashable. I probably should have been more clear but your initial assumption was correct. All I was asking if tuners just come up with a map that has the same power and torque level as an OEM map but not necessarily the same power delivery, which is what's important for me. So I'm not expecting a CS/GTS map to be 100% identical to the oem CS/GTS readout due to the resaons you mentioned but I rather expect it to have same power levels as well as the power delivery. For example, if we dyno an M4 CS and another S55 flashed with the CS tune on the same day, same dyno, with same fuel, we should see almost identical dyno graphs. All I wanna confirm is this. Thanks again for your explanation!

[swifty]

Originally Posted by cntzl

y. For example, if we dyno an M4 CS and another S55 flashed with the CS tune on the same day, same dyno, with same fuel, we should see almost identical dyno graphs. All I wanna confirm is this. Thanks again for your explanation!

Yes, I believe Evolve did this with their OEM ZCP M3 and their version of ZCP tune. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However as many ZCP owners have mentioned the tuners version of ZCP doesn't seem to burble and pop the same as the OEM.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by swifty

Yes, I believe Evolve did this with their OEM ZCP M3 and their version of ZCP tune. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However as many ZCP owners have mentioned the tuners version of ZCP doesn't seem to burble and pop the same as the OEM.

Interesting... I'd like to know why this is the case.

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

Thank u, but which one has more burbles: louder CS or GtS? Map

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

I can still disable cold start even if I don’t have downpipes right??

You can still disable cold start and the CEL/O2 Sensors. However, if you want aggressive burbles you should flash the OTS Stage 1 or Stage 2. In many cases, I've seen the burble toggles don't change much on the Stage 0+ Maps (CS/CSL/GTS).

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

Is it true that with akaprovic exhaust slip on system Your secondaries being gone will relieve a lot of pressure and therefore u can still do stage 2,91 octane AGG worhout downpipes? Because I’m getting mixed answers

The Akrapovic Slip On is a axle back system, so with this system you would retain all 4 cats (2 primary and 2 secondary cats). The aggressive map is not recommended.

[BoxKing]

Getting my DP's delivered to me sometime early next week, and I already have my BM3 Stage 2 License... should I be patient and just wait to tune until after the DP's are installed, or can I safely install asap, and just not run the car as hard until all the hardware is in place? Safe, unsafe?

[damageprone]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

Getting my DP's delivered to me sometime early next week, and I already have my BM3 Stage 2 License... should I be patient and just wait to tune until after the DP's are installed, or can I safely install asap, and just not run the car as hard until all the hardware is in place? Safe, unsafe?

You can run the "free" GTS CS CSL maps in the meantime. They don't require modifications and flash to the stage 2 when you get your items installed.

[ABoodiM4]

Is there a big difference between stage 1 and 2 burbles? Or if I get stage 1 I can custom it to be aggressive? Because I’m only doing tune to get burbles lol I don’t care how much horses I gaii just want the big burbles

[damageprone]

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

Is there a big difference between stage 1 and 2 burbles? Or if I get stage 1 I can custom it to be aggressive? Because I’m only doing tune to get burbles lol I don’t care how much horses I gaii just want the big burbles

You should be able to achieve this using the "free maps" and amping up your burbles via the slide bar.

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

So if you mean by "mimic" as in a "custom tune" created by PTF/BM3 to mimic similar power outputs as the CS or GTS OEM maps, then the answer is NO. It is not a mimic in that sense. It is basically the same OEM BMW tune but "reverse engineered" and manipulated to be flashable for your car. They are pretty much identical to the factory OEM BMW map/tables except for some necessary changes that I explained above.

Thanks for the explanation! Going back to the differences, there is marked GTS, CS, CSL. What are these tunes' BMW equivalent?

I'm assuming GTS=GTS but what are the others? CS=ZCP?, CSL=CS?

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by damageprone

Thanks for the explanation! Going back to the differences, there is marked GTS, CS, CSL. What are these tunes' BMW equivalent?

I'm assuming GTS=GTS but what are the others? CS=ZCP?, CSL=CS?

The naming should be pretty self explanatory don't you think?

The BM3 GTS tune = BMW's GTS tune which I showed in my post that is identical when comparing it to an actual factory BMW GTS full readout.

The BM3 CS tune = BMW's CS tune

The BM3 CSL tune is supposedly equivalent to BMW's CSL tune for a future F8X that isn't released yet?

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by ABoodiM4

Is there a big difference between stage 1 and 2 burbles? Or if I get stage 1 I can custom it to be aggressive? Because I’m only doing tune to get burbles lol I don’t care how much horses I gaii just want the big burbles

Not so much difference between stage 1 and stage 2, the difference is mostly from the downpipe.

Removing the primary cats makes the car 1) much louder (10-20% depending on exhaust) 2) relieves a lot of restriction.

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

The naming should be pretty self explanatory don't you think?

The BM3 GTS tune = BMW's GTS tune which I showed in my post that is identical when comparing it to an actual factory BMW GTS full readout.

The BM3 CS tune = BMW's CS tune

The BM3 CSL tune is supposedly equivalent to BMW's CSL tune for a future F8X that isn't released yet?

BuloOoSki, so I've seen this question asked many times in many tune threads whenever there is a GTS "equivalent" tune available. There doesn't seem to have an answer to it, hopefully, you'll know and clear things up.

What happens to the car when it's running the GTS tune without the water injection? I've heard that the factory GTS car will revert to a less aggressive tune with less boost if the tank is empty.

Will the M3/M4 running the GTS "tune" car run the equivalent to a GTS car with its water tank empty or will it be running full power? And if it's running full power wouldn't that be dangerous since it was made to run with water injection?