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      03-18-2017, 03:26 PM   #1
Rocklobster
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I weighed my 2015 M4 and 2017 M4 ZCP at the same time

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I recently traded in my 2015 M4 for a 2017 with the comp package. I was curious to see exactly how much these cars weighed so i brought my corner scales with me and the dealership humored me and had a tech weigh the cars during my transaction process. Both Cars weighed sans driver.

Specs:
2015 (white) M4, DCT, 18" wheels, tank about 2gal from full, lighting package, exec package, M adj suspension, carbon roof, half cloth/leather seats. Front splitters & spoiler are the only non-OEM pieces on the car.

2017 (Blue) M4 with Comp package, MPE, lighting package, carbon roof, driver assistance + package, exec package, full leather, DCT. Gas was about 1/3 full when weighed so we filled it up afterwards and put 9.7 gal in. Subtract 1.7 for an even 8 gal to bring the two cars at least nearly the same volume of gas from full.

Both cars have the HK sound system. Both cars have Iron Rotors and Blue Calipers. (No CCBs)

2015 = 3612 lbs
2017 = 3628 (lbs as weighed) + approx 6.2 lbs/gal @ 40-50 deg F x 8 gal = 3678 lbs

Considerable difference of 66 lbs that may be mostly in the wheels and tires, and perhaps the stiffer suspension components but also all the driver assistance plus crap surely adds weight. What's interesting is supposedly the stock M4 exhaust is about 18 lbs heavier than the MPE so it seems to me these cars should be closer. Were they to have the same exhaust the 2017 ZCP would be about 84 lbs heavier.

Seems apparent this is one reason why the ZCP is "slower" in a straight line according to some reviews.
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      03-18-2017, 03:29 PM   #2
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Edited to fix my math.
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      03-18-2017, 03:57 PM   #3
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how could the ZCP be slower in a straight line with its extra BHP and bigger tires which should translate into better power delivery? Where did j00 read/see that?

got a link brah?
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      03-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
Edited to fix my math.
To my understanding the "considerable" difference in weight was from the 17' having more fuel?
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      03-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix View Post
got a link brah?
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/08/03/in...ition-package/

one of a couple

Rolling and unsprung weight have a pretty big effect on performance, more than most people understand. 20" rims may look good to some but will always slow a car down over 18" rims, plus added weight always slows anything down. Wider tires have very little to do with straight line acceleration, both cars are still traction limited and on the same compound from the factory. Taller tires (which the zcp has) will also slow a car down in a straight line.

This is assuming the larger diameter rims are indeed heavier, which for the factory wheels is true.

I think the other reason is, since the both cars have the same peak torque the area under the HP curve is closer than the peak HP number difference indicates. Meaning, while the ZCP can produce a higher peak HP the actual power output through the usable rev range is very similar.

Last edited by Rocklobster; 03-18-2017 at 04:14 PM..
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      03-18-2017, 04:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthm4bcm View Post
To my understanding the "considerable" difference in weight was from the 17' having more fuel?
After adjusting the measured weight for the 17 having much less fuel when weighted the two numbers should be at roughly the same fuel load (within 1/2 gallon).

So at the same fuel load (near full)

2015 is 3612lbs
2017 zcp is 3678lbs

Last edited by Rocklobster; 03-18-2017 at 04:15 PM..
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      03-18-2017, 04:12 PM   #7
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I'm not sure how much weight the driver assistance stuff adds. I'm sure it's something but expect most of the difference is the larger wheels and tires and maybe some is related to estimates on gasoline and other differences in fluids.
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      03-18-2017, 04:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/08/03/in...ition-package/

one of a couple

Rolling and unsprung weight have a pretty big effect on performance, more than most people understand. 20" rims may look good to some but will always slow a car down over 18" rims, plus added weight always slows anything down. Wider tires have very little to do with straight line acceleration, both cars are still traction limited and on the same compound from the factory. Taller tires (which the zcp has) will also slow a car down in a straight line.

This is assuming the larger diameter rims are indeed heavier, which for the factory wheels is true.

I think the other reason is, since the both cars have the same peak torque the area under the HP curve is closer than the peak HP number difference indicates. Meaning, while the ZCP can produce a higher peak HP the actual power output through the usable rev range is very similar.
Thanks for this, now it makes more sense to me
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      03-18-2017, 05:07 PM   #9
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No no no, it's definitely all the paperwork in the trunk. All those pamphlets and brochures they give you...
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      03-18-2017, 05:10 PM   #10
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The dealer did Laminate the window sticker. I'm fairly certain that was their way of rubbing my nose in the fact that I traded an M4 for an M4 AND gave them a bunch of cash on top of the deal.
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      03-18-2017, 06:48 PM   #11
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The cage is 23kg/50 lbs. do you have that on your zcp?
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      03-18-2017, 07:06 PM   #12
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18" wheels to 20" wheels is a notable weight difference. I don't put much faith in the differences in times in reviews unless they were same track, same day, same driver, same approximate miles on cars and tires...
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      03-19-2017, 01:55 AM   #13
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At least now you know where the extra $$$ you paid went
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      03-19-2017, 02:09 AM   #14
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I don't think the wheels have that much of am impact, maybe less than 1-2lbs per corner (the beefier 18" tire may make up some of the weight difference from the 20" rim). Maybe the booming standard HK sound system is weighing down the 17...
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      03-19-2017, 03:44 AM   #15
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OP, don't forget the added weight from Tanzanite Blue, easily 5-10lbs more than your previous white M4...j/k

The Satans are the biggest culprit.
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      03-19-2017, 06:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboM View Post
I don't think the wheels have that much of am impact, maybe less than 1-2lbs per corner (the beefier 18" tire may make up some of the weight difference from the 20" rim). Maybe the booming standard HK sound system is weighing down the 17...
The 20" 666M wheel-tire combo add over 29lb compared to the 18" 513M

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...M#post21346383
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      03-19-2017, 06:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/08/03/in...ition-package/

one of a couple

Rolling and unsprung weight have a pretty big effect on performance, more than most people understand. 20" rims may look good to some but will always slow a car down over 18" rims, plus added weight always slows anything down. Wider tires have very little to do with straight line acceleration, both cars are still traction limited and on the same compound from the factory. Taller tires (which the zcp has) will also slow a car down in a straight line.

This is assuming the larger diameter rims are indeed heavier, which for the factory wheels is true.

I think the other reason is, since the both cars have the same peak torque the area under the HP curve is closer than the peak HP number difference indicates. Meaning, while the ZCP can produce a higher peak HP the actual power output through the usable rev range is very similar.
for doing this, it is always interresting to gather weight data.

A few pointers:

Unsprung weight does not have any direct incidence on acceleration, but has a strong incedence on handling.

Rotating mass however does impact acceleration, but not necessarily to the extent most believe. The mass factor of wheels is about 1.5x while the one of tires is about 2x. So the added effective mass of the 666M over the 513M is no more than ~40lb, which is less the the moonroof to CF roof difference . Every bit counts, but it is not a night and day difference.

The CP and non-CP have pretty much the same torque plateau up to 5500rpm, as you stated. But the CP has more power from then on, and that is where it matters for ultimate acceleration. I think the "slower" CP we've seen are more about test-to-test variance.

Fuel tank size has not changed, it is still 60 liters.

Also note that the MPE is 18lb lighter than the stock exhaust, a bit less than the 26lb you suggested.

So your CP is ~84lb heavier. 29lb of that is from the 666M, leaving ~55lb from other options and other changes mad by BMW.
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      03-19-2017, 01:35 PM   #18
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I should note then that both cars have the HK sound system. I had not thought of that.

I guess by unsprung weight i meant rotating mass in regards to the straight line performance.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1092134

...was my reference for the exhaust weight difference.
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      03-19-2017, 01:47 PM   #19
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60+ lbs. sounds like a lot for full leather and driver's assistance. Plus shouldn't ZCP seats weigh less with no lumbar support?

Any chance there was less gas than thought in the non-ZCP?
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      03-19-2017, 02:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
I should note then that both cars have the HK sound system. I had not thought of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
I guess by unsprung weight i meant rotating mass in regards to the straight line performance.
Even then, as I posted, while every bit counts, ~30lb on the wheel-tires will not make a significant difference on acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1092134

...was my reference for the exhaust weight difference.
Important to read the notes : in the thread you referenced, EAS say they did not factor the weight of the secondary cats that need to be retained with the MPE. According to the BMW brochure, MPE is 8kg (18lb) lighter than stock exhaust.
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      03-20-2017, 10:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Even then, as I posted, while every bit counts, ~20lb on the wheel-tires will not make a significant difference on acceleration.
You might be surprised at how much of a difference it makes where it counts on the race track. Def in straight line but also overall. In addition to rotating mass there are a lot of factors. I've been road racing cars for about a decade. We always put the smallest rims and tires possible on cars, only what will fit over the brakes. It's also an easy way to play with the gearing in a series that does not allow you to do so. Further in some cases when you don't have the suspension adjustability you want (again due to rules) it lowers the CoG. And finally, it allows more tire pressure adjust ability, thus effective spring rate, and more flexability in tire patch, if your camber adj is limited (especially for strut front cars like most BMWs). Not to mention cheaper (hoosier) tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Important to read the notes : in the thread you referenced, EAS say they did not factor the weight of the secondary cats that need to be retained with the MPE. According to the BMW brochure, MPE is 8kg (18lb) lighter than stock exhaust.
Ahh, i missed that.

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      03-20-2017, 12:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
You might be surprised at how much of a difference it makes where it counts on the race track. Def in straight line but also overall.
For sure, when building a race car, every once counts. Since rotating mass has an amplified effect, it is worthwhile scrubbing off as much as you can. Like I said, every bit counts.

But the mass factor and effective mass calculations are physics based. A tire has a typical mass factor of about 2x while a wheel is about 1.5x. There is no way around this. Like I said, 21lb on added actual mass for the 666M wheel-tire combo results in no more than 40lb of effective mass. That is barely the effect of a half tank of fuel on straight line acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster View Post
In addition to rotating mass there are a lot of factors. I've been road racing cars for about a decade. We always put the smallest rims and tires possible on cars, only what will fit over the brakes. It's also an easy way to play with the gearing in a series that does not allow you to do so. Further in some cases when you don't have the suspension adjustability you want (again due to rules) it lowers the CoG. And finally, it allows more tire pressure adjust ability, thus effective spring rate, and more flexability in tire patch, if your camber adj is limited (especially for strut front cars like most BMWs). Not to mention cheaper (hoosier) tires.
All the other elements you mention are very valid for prepping a race car. However, not applicable to the F8X CP since 20" 666M 20" wheel barely affect rolling radius.

IMO, the greatest detrimental effect of the 666M wheel-tire package is the increased unsprung mass.
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