2018 Mustang GT is as fast as an M3/4 in a straight line for $35k

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

Was at my Florida place (Sarasota Gulf area) for a week two weeks ago and I saw 2-3 times as many Lexus, C Class MB, Audi 3/4/5 and 3/4 series BMW than a Camaro, Mustang or Charger.

A 3/4 series BMW at both my Maryland and Florida houses are as ubiquitous as a Honda Accord. Truth.

Please don't kid yourself and think a 3 or 4 series BMW is a rare site.

CA is exactly like that. M and AMG cars are fairly common and 911 is a typical daily driver as well.

My alpine white m3 blended in like a camry

[blinkme323]

At the end of the day, get whatever makes you happy. Mustangs are a great bargain, there?s no doubt about it.

That being said, using 0-60 times to justify one car over another is silly. I?m fairly certain that my 17 year old neighbor?s blown Civic can probably keep up with my M. Should I make him an offer?

[dkhm3]

We've had this conversation before.

Drag Race: Mustang by a hair

Track:M3 by a hair

Check resale values for the same year cars and mileage and look at the actual cost of ownership. Comparing msrp's is not the way to evaluating value.

Glad I have pre '16 x5m and m3 that still have no cost maintenance and brakes for 4 years.

Four years from now, some dude will post this same thread again thinking they've discovered something new, and a new group of people will talk about the same damn thing.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

We've had this conversation before.

Drag Race: Mustang by a hair

Track:M3 by a hair

Check resale values for the same year cars and mileage and look at the actual cost of ownership. Comparing msrp's is not the way to evaluating value.

Glad I have pre '16 x5m and m3 that still have no cost maintenance and brakes for 4 years.

Four years from now, some dude will post this same thread again thinking they've discovered something new, and a new group of people will talk about the same damn thing.

I had this exact comparison in mind when reading through this thread. You beat me to posting it. This is nothing new.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

Unfortunately not the Performance Package 2 which adds wider Cup 2 tires and the below chassis changes.

I think those suspension tweaks will help but the tires should make a pretty substantial boost in performance for that car.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I had this exact comparison in mind when reading through this thread. You beat me to posting it. This is nothing new.

But those are the pre-IRS 2011-14 GT's. The 2015 handle substantially better. The 2018 GT with its magnetic shocks and Performance Pack 2 should be that much better.


It is pretty remarkable that a GT or SS is even considered in the same performance category as the M3. Before 2011 there was no way those cars could even come close on a road course as the M3. I have yet to drive a Magnetic shock Mustang GT but I would imagine as good as the car may be, it isn't going to have the sophistication of a BMW. It will be more of a visceral and raw experience. And that isn't always a bad thing.


And for those mentioning power mods, My old 2011 GT went 11.2 @ 117 in the quarter with a $1,200 intake manifold & throttle body combo and a $300 off the shelf tune. It made about 440 rwhp with that combo. The 2018 GT seems to make that kind of power stock. Hopefully an intake manifold and tune will put it in the 470-490 rwhp range. That time was with a messed up trans that wouldn't let me power shift over 7500 or so. The otor was good to shift at 8,000-8,200. I bought the car really cheap with 10K miles and a messed up trans. Once I rebuilt it I never went back to the track. But I am very confident it would have gone 10.9-10.8 in good air. But that brings me to the BIGGEST drawback to the 2011+ Mustang by far is/was the MT82 trans. It was very problematic. Cheap car problems. I loved the gearing but the issues people have with shifting, gear noise, and clutch issues, made it a place you were forced to spend money to make it perform as it should stock. Not an issue with that the SS or M3. Although the 2015 cars seem to suffer less with issues. The 2018 GT goes even further to address issues by adding a dual mass clutch set up.

Then add boost to this motor and 700-800 rwhp is no issue at all.

But ya, it is nice that American cars are starting to be an option for someone that wants M3 performance but in an American car. Not a bad thing at all.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

We've had this conversation before.

Drag Race: Mustang by a hair

Track:M3 by a hair

Check resale values for the same year cars and mileage and look at the actual cost of ownership. Comparing msrp's is not the way to evaluating value.

Glad I have pre '16 x5m and m3 that still have no cost maintenance and brakes for 4 years.

Four years from now, some dude will post this same thread again thinking they've discovered something new, and a new group of people will talk about the same damn thing.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I had this exact comparison in mind when reading through this thread. You beat me to posting it. This is nothing new.

Like the previous poster said now that Ford is offering the mag ride with the 18 'Stang as an option they are capable of handling better than the M3/4 now. Both in DD comfort and on track. I would say that is a huge difference from that comparison. Plus TC tuning is much better as well.

Otherwise it is the same story. If you want fit and finish/build quality with the German touch then go BMW. If you want the performance bargain, especially if you are planning on modding then go Camaro or 'Stang.

This just a guess, but over all cost of ownership is probably closer than we think when all things are considered between these cars.

[CanAutM3]

86merc
minn19

My point is that Mustangs matching M3(4) performance is nothing new. They were able to do so when comparing previous generations of both cars. Same repeats with the current generation.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

86merc
minn19

My point is that Mustangs matching M3(4) performance is nothing new. They were able to do so when comparing previous generations of both cars. Same repeats with the current generation.

Nothing new in recent years. Some of us older guys have been around Mustangs since the 1979+ foxbody cars. Which were horrible handling and brakes were non-existant. haha They were one trick ponys who made good quarter mile passes.

But ya, the M3 has been the standard for decades as far as performance and poise goes. Manufacturers are always using it as a gauge of their offerings. For good reason. I don't see BMW letting that change either. The other cars getting better only offers more competition. When that happens the consumers are the ones who win out.

[F80 ZCP]

Originally Posted by MNoob

Have you ever driven from sacramento to san diego?

I-5 I had a Turbo IS300 in the early 2000 and I used to stretch her legs here.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

86merc
minn19

My point is that Mustangs matching M3(4) performance is nothing new. They were able to do so when comparing previous generations of both cars. Same repeats with the current generation.

And my point is that I don’t think a majority of people would’ve said that the solid axle Mustang of that generation was a overall better handling/drivers car than the M3.

If people had the money they most likely would’ve bought an M3 over the ‘Stang then. Now people are buying Mustangs/Camaros over the Germans based on the merits of the car and not just budget anymore.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by minn19

If people had the money they most likely would’ve bought an M3 over the ‘Stang then..

And they probably still do now. or get a gt350 instead of GT PP2

[minn19]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

And they probably still do now. or get a gt350 instead of GT PP2

You are probably right, but the SS 1LE and the 18 GT with PP2 are making that a question as well in terms of overall performance/value. If you want a NA manual V8 with a very good chassis/suspension combo both are great choices.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

solid interior for the price.

Interior is still butt ugly

Fix the interior and I'd consider a GT.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

What do you guys think? Bargain American muscle though maybe not as good around a track. Apparently it does handle better than a Camaro though. Still would look cooler behind the wheel of an M3.

My SS 1LE is also gonna be as fast/faster than a stock M3 but the M3 wasn't meant to be a one trick pony(car). The muscle cars are seriously fast but lack the refinement and usability you get in the M3. Different leagues as far as craftsmanship/materials go.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by minn19

You are probably right, but the SS 1LE and the 18 GT with PP2 are making that a question as well in terms of overall performance/value. If you want a NA manual V8 with a very good chassis/suspension combo both are great choices.

Man, the SS1LE is a way more bada$$ car to drive than the F80 I had. The V8 roar, stock recaros, heavy clutch and beefy gear shifter, sticky tires and awesome mag ride suspension make it a stupid deal at $45k. But it is NOT a replacement for the M3. I also have an S3 to balance things out... should've probably kept my F80 but I'll get another eventually. As far as a track car though, the 1LE is a freaking beast.

Again, the Camaro is a really fun, exciting, and fast car, but the M3 still does a wider range of things better than any car I can think of. style, speed, usability, comfort, forum support, upgradeability.. I got caught looking for a little more drama. I found it, but now find myself longing for the complete package again.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

Man, the SS1LE is a way more bada$$ car to drive than the F80 I had. The V8 roar, stock recaros, heavy clutch and beefy gear shifter, sticky tires and awesome mag ride suspension make it a stupid deal at $45k. But it is NOT a replacement for the M3. I also have an S3 to balance things out... should've probably kept my F80 but I'll get another eventually. As far as a track car though, the 1LE is a freaking beast.

Again, the Camaro is a really fun, exciting, and fast car, but the M3 still does a wider range of things better than any car I can think of. style, speed, usability, comfort, forum support, upgradeability.. I got caught looking for a little more drama. I found it, but now find myself longing for the complete package again.

Yes the M3 stands alone as the multi purpose king and it is the complete package from a point of view. If I had to go back to having one car and I needed a 4 door sedan it would be probably be my choice.

But, I hesitate to crown it the complete package. Sure it is upgradable with the ever present real and bullshit M tax. The Camaro/Mustang are just as if not more upgradable at a cheaper cost and have great forum support. I don’t find the M3s that comfortable compared to other cars that have much better suspensions with a much better ride. Also both my non Recaro and current Recaro seats I find considerably more comfortable than my M3/4 seats.

I really hope BMW stops being stubborn and starts using some of the new tech in the next gen M3/4 because they have fallen behind in that department and definitely shows across the entire M3/4 lineup.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

My SS 1LE is also gonna be as fast/faster than a stock M3 but the M3 wasn't meant to be a one trick pony(car). The muscle cars are seriously fast but lack the refinement and usability you get in the M3. Different leagues as far as craftsmanship/materials go.

Again yes the materials look and feel were obviously way better in the M3/4 than my GT350. But my M3 rattled and creaked as much if not more than my GT350 does. My M4 was much better, but definitely wasn’t perfect for a car that should be at 80k plus MSRP. Fair or not it is/was easier to forgive the rattles in my “cheaper” GT350 than it was in my BMWs.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

Again yes the materials look and feel were obviously way better in the M3/4 than my GT350. But my M3 rattled and creaked as much if not more than my GT350 does. My M4 was much better, but definitely wasn’t perfect for a car that should be at 80k plus MSRP. Fair or not it is/was easier to forgive the rattles in my “cheaper” GT350 than it was in my BMWs.

Here in Canada, the GT350 has pretty much the same MSPR as an M4, so it ain't "cheap"...

But I still dig that Voodoo beast very much

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Here in Canada, the GT350 has pretty much the same MSPR as an M4, so it ain't "cheap"...

But I still like that beat very much

Cheap is a relative term. Both of my M3/4 were a little over 80k MSRP and my GT350 was a little over 60k. Although I did get my M4 at a substantial discount so that closed the gap between the two. Compare that to what the M4 CS is gonna cost and then add in the mods etc that a lot of people like to do etc.

Just a quick popular mod comparison. I can get a Black Friday deal right now for a complete headers back Kooks system for $3400 regularly $4200. As you know you couldn’t do that for most M3/4 systems. An M performance catback is more than that at a great deal. I got a really good deal on a Remus catback that was still almost 3k. You can get Borla and other catbacks for 2k and less etc. Anyway you get my point if you like to mod etc.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by minn19

Cheap is a relative term. Both of my M3/4 were a little over 80k MSRP and my GT350 was a little over 60k. Although I did get my M4 at a substantial discount so that closed the gap between the two. Compare that to what the M4 CS is gonna cost and then add in the mods etc that a lot of people like to do etc.

Just a quick popular mod comparison. I can get a Black Friday deal right now for a complete headers back Kooks system for $3400 regularly $4200. As you know you couldn’t do that for most M3/4 systems. An M performance catback is more than that at a great deal. I got a really good deal on a Remus catback that was still almost 3k. You can get Borla and other catbacks for 2k and less etc. Anyway you get my point if you like to mod etc.

On a similar note - anyone read the latest R&T PCOT? $73,090 Camaro ZL1 1LE got a faster lap time than the $172,950 991.2 Porsche 911 GT3!! So - no reason to buy the GT3 anymore, right?

PS - Suck it Motorsportsenterprise (or whatever you call yourself now)...

That being said - I do love the GT3 (my rhetoric aside)...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

On a similar note - anyone read the latest R&T PCOT? $73,090 Camaro ZL1 1LE got a faster lap time than the $172,950 991.2 Porsche 911 GT3!! So - no reason to buy the GT3 anymore, right?

PS - Suck it Motorsportsenterprise (or whatever you call yourself now)...

That being said - I do love the GT3 (my rhetoric aside)...

You could definitely make a case for it now.

[dkhm3]

On the other side of the coin I am thinking about the new raptor to replace my x5m.

But then the interior is full of hard plastics, leather is not close to the nappa I have and the new 10 speed tranny doesn't like to shift manually, shift speeds are slow and the experience sucks compared to the zf. Kind of have to compromise for the off road performance, but still rather disappointed for almost 70k and no discounts.