F80 M3 VS Nissan GTR Track Comparison Video at Buttonwillow

[Sakred]

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Hey gang,

Wanted to share a quick video comparison I did with the F80 M3 and the Nissan GTR at our local track. The folks at Slip Angle provided the cars and asked for my feedback. Going into this video I was pretty skeptical of the M3's performance, however after the video I had a new appreciation for the F80 M3. Check it out.

For the people interested in data, Slip Angle posts all associated telemetry data in their videos.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Nice, thank you for sharing

[paikman]

Nice video. So a tune flash (BM3) gains almost 100whp/100wtorque currently, and then tires, coilovers - you think this would be enough to drop the M3 more in line with GTR speeds? That's pretty significant for the car to close the gap with <$4000 in mods vs a base price gap of $40k

[Sakred]

Here is the Circuit tools graph comparing the two cars. The M3 is the red line, and the GTR is the blue line.

The top graph in the center shows MPH, at each GPS fix (location on Track)

Second graph down shows the time delta between the 2 cars per GPS location

Third graph is lateral G load (cornering load) per GPS location

fourth graph is Longitudinal G load (Acceleration and braking loads) per GPS location.

You will notice that on any of the acceleration sections on track, when the Blue line deviates from red line, that shows the power difference between the two cars. So yes extra power is needed for the M3 to make up some of the gap, but it would need the same if not more grip as well. Look at the valleys in the top graph. That is min speed through any given corner.

[pfl]

As mentioned in video, the M3 does also need a better paired brakes/tires. The brakes were too aggressive for the tires on the car.

The issue would be that if a tune raises the power/torque by 100, would that hurt the car's corner exit capability. It would be very interesting if Slip Angle can do a follow up with a tune on the car and see if it helps and by how much.

[Acturater]

Wow, awesome. Thanks OP.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by pfl

As mentioned in video, the M3 does also need a better paired brakes/tires. The brakes were too aggressive for the tires on the car.

The issue would be that if a tune raises the power/torque by 100, would that hurt the car's corner exit capability. It would be very interesting if Slip Angle can do a follow up with a tune on the car and see if it helps and by how much.

False. Re71r tires are very aggressive
I ran 2:00:4 in my M2 100% stock on the michelin super sports it came on. Re71r tires will run a couple seconds faster and they can handle very aggressive pads.

Nice compare. cool to see the data

[Sakred]

Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie

False. Re71r tires are very aggressive
I ran 2:00:4 in my M2 100% stock on the michelin super sports it came on. Re71r tires will run a couple seconds faster and they can handle very aggressive pads.

Nice compare. cool to see the data

The tires on this car were overwhelmed by the brakes. The pads used on the M3 were pagid RS29. Like I said in the video, 30% pedal travel engaged ABS.

[TheKosherStogie]

That just seems off. Not Saying you're wrong but most tracking M's run those rs29 or 19. Pagid even calls them their endurance pad. They're not super aggressive and re71r are the go to sticky "street class" tire now. Nt01 levels of grip if not more. Maybe something wasn't right ...

[Love2Golf]

Great video Thanks for sharing!!

I would say the M3 held it own taking into account the huge difference in horsepower!!!

Thanks again Sean

[spyderbret]

Great video! Thanks for posting!

Do you think the M3 would have fared better if it had the competition package with CCB's?

[Sakred]

Originally Posted by Love2Golf

Great video Thanks for sharing!!

I would say the M3 held it own taking into account the huge difference in horsepower!!!

Thanks again Sean

The M3 did very well considering a lot of things. The fact that it has 4 doors, is a great DD, and performs at this level is pretty impressive.

Originally Posted by spyderbret

Great video! Thanks for posting!

Do you think the M3 would have fared better if it had the competition package with CCB's?

I am not very familiar with the differences in the performance package VS the car I drove. I personally think CCB's are useless for tracking. CCB's are a street application. I have a decent bit of experience with carbon brakes and none of my experience leads me to believe they are a worthwhile upgrade for a track car.

[vladberca]

Eh, I would like to see that GTR against a GTS with the proper setup.
M3 ZCP is better on track too, than the "standard" version.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by paikman

Nice video. So a tune flash (BM3) gains almost 100whp/100wtorque currently, and then tires, coilovers - you think this would be enough to drop the M3 more in line with GTR speeds? That's pretty significant for the car to close the gap with <$4000 in mods vs a base price gap of $40k

Well that GTR was relatively stock...so.jot a fair comparison. I'd say a tune and CP would make it comparable.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by Sakred

The M3 did very well considering a lot of things. The fact that it has 4 doors, is a great DD, and performs at this level is pretty impressive.




I am not very familiar with the differences in the performance package VS the car I drove. I personally think CCB's are useless for tracking. CCB's are a street application. I have a decent bit of experience with carbon brakes and none of my experience leads me to believe they are a worthwhile upgrade for a track car.

[N54B30A]

Looks like the m3 had most of the peaks in the lateral g department. So much for AWD.

[aveillez]

BMW kicks Nissan's Ass in Endurance racing. That shows which is better car on the racetrack.

I rest my case !!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sakred

I am not very familiar with the differences in the performance package VS the car I drove. I personally think CCB's are useless for tracking. CCB's are a street application. I have a decent bit of experience with carbon brakes and none of my experience leads me to believe they are a worthwhile upgrade for a track car.

Spoken like someone who has actually tracked cars, not just played Forza.

CCBs are for cool street cars and hard parking. For the track you get a steel BBK if needed

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Sakred

The M3 did very well considering a lot of things. The fact that it has 4 doors, is a great DD, and performs at this level is pretty impressive.

I am not very familiar with the differences in the performance package VS the car I drove. I personally think CCB's are useless for tracking. CCB's are a street application. I have a decent bit of experience with carbon brakes and none of my experience leads me to believe they are a worthwhile upgrade for a track car.

My experience is the opposite of that. CCB's don't fade on the track but suck when cold or wet, i.e. dangerous on the street for an emergency stops under the above conditions. Steel brakes on the other hand, not so on the street but can warp rotors and melt pads ( stock) on the track, and this is from personal experience on both surfaces. So stock for stock, CCB>steel for track.
However there ARE aftermarket steel setups that could have the best of both IMO.
Of course driving style will make a huge diff.

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Sakred

The M3 did very well considering a lot of things. The fact that it has 4 doors, is a great DD, and performs at this level is pretty impressive.

I am not very familiar with the differences in the performance package VS the car I drove. I personally think CCB's are useless for tracking. CCB's are a street application. I have a decent bit of experience with carbon brakes and none of my experience leads me to believe they are a worthwhile upgrade for a track car.

My experience is the opposite of that. CCB's don't fade on the track but suck when cold or wet, i.e. dangerous on the street for an emergency stops under the above conditions. Steel brakes on the other hand, not so on the street but can warp rotors and melt pads ( stock) on the track, and this is from personal experience on both surfaces. So stock for stock, CCB>steel for track.
However there ARE aftermarket steel setups that could have the best of both IMO.
Of course driving style will make a huge diff.

[Halitosis]

Real carbon race brakes are NOT CCM (carbon ceramic matrix) like those that come on high end road-going sports cars. Rather, they are carbon-carbon (CC) and are not street friendly as they require a lot of heat to reach into its optimal working range. Not to mention, they are serious money.

Yes, it's true. A lot of serious track enthusiasts dump CCM rotors in favor of iron discs/rotors.

This is an all too familiar sight with street CCM factory brakes after a few track events. They simply can't handle continued and heavy track usage for several reasons.

[packetpilot]

What happened to the lapel mic; the lead wasn't plugged in and the box on your waist had some inbuilt mic?

Just curious. Still worth a watch of course! :-)