For you ZCP guys who track your car, does the ZCP M3/M4 really "bite" back?

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

You spend how much time tracking the car vs how much time you do daily driving. Which car looks better, the cool effect. For me, the M4 wins that battle easily.

Totally... Maybe 5 days a year at the track. I love the M4's looks better. But the nimbleness of the M2 is such a big draw, in day to day driving. If it wasn't for it's puny engine (granted the M2 CS may get the M4 engine, but if it ends up like the current M4 CS with a DCT, it is a dealbreaker for me) and lack of adaptable suspension...

[OhioRiderAaron]

ZCP owner here...I tend to agree that the F-series M3/4 can be difficult to handle at times. Compared to the Camaro/ATSV/RCF/M2 I've driven, I find it to be the most unpredictable of the lot (at the very limit of adhesion and behind). However, if you're careful with the throttle/steering inputs it is still very manageable. Turn everything off and the car still does not spontaneously oversteer though like the reviews sometimes make it seem. Personally, I contribute the "snappy-ness" to the lack of steering feel. If you can't feel how the front-end is behaving it can be difficult to know exactly when the rear will lose traction.

Btw, I drove TCKline's M2 a few weeks ago and was really impressed. That car with an M3/4 engine would be just about perfect IMO. He had the OEM suspension swapped for his own single/DA setup which made the car feel more comfortable and more composed compared to my adaptive suspension ZCP. I really wanted to be disappointed and hoped the car was over-hyped, but it really wasnt IMO (with TCK suspension that is).

Lots of good feedback here, I suggest driving one and deciding for yourself.

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've had 3 ///Ms thus far (E46/E92/F82), all are/were tracked a fair bit (16~20 days/year), and my M4 is the best handler of the 3. The only one I found to "bite back" was my E46 that had a tendency to tank slap if you were not careful when stepping the tail out. I actually find my M4 to be quite the pussycat on track. When shod with proper track tires the "lack of traction" goes away. I find the F8X chassis very predictable and easy to control. Sure, it has gobs of mid-range power, so I had to re-calibrate my right foot, but the power is very easily controllable, it' delivery is smooth and predictable, more so when using the Sport+ engine setting. I drive my M4 through all 4-seasons. I love sliding it around in the snow, it is a joy to drive in the slippery stuff. For me that is a testament of a great chassis tuning.

...and I don't even have a CP.

Don't believe everything you read in magazines .

[elmerzasty]

For me the F80 can be a bit twitchy and tricky on colder days, at least on the Michelins, when the tires can indeed break away rapidly. Perhaps some of the opinions of the car being snappy come from driving with cold tires and/or wrong tire pressures.

Once the tires are warmed up though, the car is actually very easy to control (considering the torque) on the threshold once you accept that the accelerator does have intermediate positions between 0 and 1

[adc]

You can get into more trouble on the street than on track if you aren't careful. Streets are narrower and have lots of annoying things to hit (curbs, cars, posts u name it). The car has a rather abrupt torque curve at low revs and that can overwhelm the rear tires.

On track you can really push the thing, and since you are in the upper rev range the torque is very predictable. In all cases you never treat the throttle like an on/off switch and need to learn to modulate the throttle, roll into it rather than step on it.

It does incredibly well in the rain on stock Michelins, so no it is not a random beast that needs to be treated with care. At least in my experience.


OP i suggest you start turning the nannies off on track at least in the dry. Otherwise you will learn lots of bad habits and have to painfully recalibrate your inputs.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by adc

You can get into more trouble on the street than on track if you aren't careful. Streets are narrower and have lots of annoying things to hit (curbs, cars, posts u name it). The car has a rather abrupt torque curve at low revs and that can overwhelm the rear tires.

On track you can really push the thing, and since you are in the upper rev range the torque is very predictable. In all cases you never treat the throttle like an on/off switch and need to learn to modulate the throttle, roll into it rather than step on it.

It does incredibly well in the rain on stock Michelins, so no it is not a random beast that needs to be treated with care. At least in my experience.


OP i suggest you start turning the nannies off on track at least in the dry. Otherwise you will learn lots of bad habits and have to painfully recalibrate your inputs.

Couldn't agree more!

[Bruce AaLee]

Originally Posted by casschan86

I've tracked my ZCP f80 3 times in the last two months and my only gripe is the stock brakes. It really can't handle the weight of the car. I am by no means a racer but when the car is being pushed the brakes are the first thing I notice that prevent me from pushing the car even harder. I haven't really had any issues with the "bite back," the car has over 400hp and it is a rear wheel drive car. If you want it to bite it can but you know your limits if your paying the bills. I really think it is all around better than a normal M3/4. My GF has a 15 M4 and I have a 16 ZCP F80 and I feel the difference between the two. I get to compare the two on a regular basis. I would go ZCP over again.

I would suggest swapping some Pagid pads and Castrol SRF fluid. My car brakes extremely well with zero fade. My buddy with a GT3 and probably 50 track events under his belt drove my car at COTA a few weeks back and was shocked by how well the m3 brakes.

[MaynardZed]

Post this while its fresh in my mind. Just did a track day today with my M4 after not driving it at all on track for over a year (busy with E36 in W2W). Forgot how fun the M4 is on track. Car performed wonderfully! R888R tires and carbotechs, otherwise my car is pretty much stock.

No, the M4 doesn't try to bite you, unless you consider getting bit by a kitty cat a dangerous thing. Slides / drifts are very gentle, predictable, easy to correct, and down right fun! You can pretty much toss it into any turn (even coming too hot) and save yourself with trail braking and throttle steer.

Without cambers plates my M4 wanted to push a bit so I'd turn a bit earlier, and throttle steer through the rest of the turn. Towards corner exit you have to mash the throttle slightly early because there's a bit of turbo delay esp. if in lower rpm.

[evanescent03]

i'm not someone who does drifting but when I've gotten close to the limit it has been very predictable and when it has slid out on me a couple times I have been able to catch it no problem. it definitely isn't as big of a handful as many other cars known for snap oversteer (RWD FType R, new Z06s, older 911s). with turbos you have to anticipate that you'll get a sudden increase in power once the turbos spool up but that happens pretty low in the rev range. the throttle is really easy to modulate, too.

i had Nitto NT01s on my car for most of my tracking and kept all the nannies 100% off, btw. having NT01s is kinda like having traction control but all tires will eventually let go... stickier tires let go at a higher lateral G which was mentioned earlier and so when it does let go, you're more likely to go spinning off through the grass or Armco.

[Lotus99]

I lucked out over the weekend and managed to drive a fully loaded Comp Pack M4, which had carbon brakes too. What a dreamy ride. I'm still waiting to drive my buddy's M2 just to get it out of my system, before deciding, but it's going to take a lot to make me want to get an M2 now... LOL.

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Post this while its fresh in my mind. Just did a track day today with my M4 after not driving it at all on track for over a year (busy with E36 in W2W). Forgot how fun the M4 is on track. Car performed wonderfully! R888R tires and carbotechs, otherwise my car is pretty much stock.

No, the M4 doesn't try to bite you, unless you consider getting bit by a kitty cat a dangerous thing. Slides / drifts are very gentle, predictable, easy to correct, and down right fun! You can pretty much toss it into any turn (even coming too hot) and save yourself with trail braking and throttle steer.

Without cambers plates my M4 wanted to push a bit so I'd turn a bit earlier, and throttle steer through the rest of the turn. Towards corner exit you have to mash the throttle slightly early because there's a bit of turbo delay esp. if in lower rpm.

Sounds like you had a blast. Thx for the input. Do you run your R888R tires all the time, or just for track? And which Carbotech pads are you running?

Originally Posted by evanescent03

i'm not someone who does drifting but when I've gotten close to the limit it has been very predictable and when it has slid out on me a couple times I have been able to catch it no problem. it definitely isn't as big of a handful as many other cars known for snap oversteer (RWD FType R, new Z06s, older 911s). with turbos you have to anticipate that you'll get a sudden increase in power once the turbos spool up but that happens pretty low in the rev range. the throttle is really easy to modulate, too.

i had Nitto NT01s on my car for most of my tracking and kept all the nannies 100% off, btw. having NT01s is kinda like having traction control but all tires will eventually let go... stickier tires let go at a higher lateral G which was mentioned earlier and so when it does let go, you're more likely to go spinning off through the grass or Armco.

Thank you. Are your NT01's dedicated track tires? You using stock pads on your track days?

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

I lucked out over the weekend and managed to drive a fully loaded Comp Pack M4, which had carbon brakes too. What a dreamy ride. I'm still waiting to drive my buddy's M2 just to get it out of my system, before deciding, but it's going to take a lot to make me want to get an M2 now... LOL.


Sounds like you had a blast. Thx for the input. Do you run your R888R tires all the time, or just for track? And which Carbotech pads are you running?

Yeah, for the street the M3/4 should be heads and shoulders better than the M2. The M2 looks to be a lot of fun on the track though and is putting down some really quick lap times. I'd definitely consider one for myself, but its a little too tight inside since I'm a big guy.

Have only the OEM wheel set for the M4 anymore, so yes I'm using the R888R on the street for now. They're noisy and stiff, not great for a street tire. Maybe a little better that the old R888 though. Worked great on track though.

XP12/10. They have performed very well for me. Get really, really hot up front so try to do a cool down lap (unlike me). They were billowing out smoke when I came off track. Some guy was messing around with me and came over with a fire extinguisher, lol! My rotors should probably we put in the bin.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Yeah, for the street the M3/4 should be heads and shoulders better than the M2. The M2 looks to be a lot of fun on the track though and is putting down some really quick lap times. I'd definitely consider one for myself, but its a little too tight inside since I'm a big guy.

Have only the OEM wheel set for the M4 anymore, so yes I'm using the R888R on the street for now. They're noisy and stiff, not great for a street tire. Maybe a little better that the old R888 though. Worked great on track though.

XP12/10. They have performed very well for me. Get really, really hot up front so try to do a cool down lap (unlike me). They were billowing out smoke when I came off track. Some guy was messing around with me and came over with a fire extinguisher, lol! My rotors should probably we put in the bin.

Nice. Lucky you in Phoenix. You get almost no rain all year... Not like us here in the Pacific Northwest... I'd love to drive on those for 3 seasons a year.

I read a bit more on the Carbotech pads. Good to hear your experience has been positive. The thread I found on them, quite a few hated them due to the excessive noise, so putting them on at home and driving to the track was bad enough, most seemed to have returned theirs!

PS Not to get off topic on you, but so have you driven the M2? I keep reading how it's much more agile than the M4, and I wonder if I'd notice that more on the street, daily driving it, or the track days... Cuz I'll only do 5 track days a year, so if the latter, that's of much lesser importance. The M2 owners rave about how nimble it is driving it every day...

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Nice. Lucky you in Phoenix. You get almost no rain all year... Not like us here in the Pacific Northwest... I'd love to drive on those for 3 seasons a year.

I read a bit more on the Carbotech pads. Good to hear your experience has been positive. The thread I found on them, quite a few hated them due to the excessive noise, so putting them on at home and driving to the track was bad enough, most seemed to have returned theirs!

PS Not to get off topic on you, but so have you driven the M2? I keep reading how it's much more agile than the M4, and I wonder if I'd notice that more on the street, daily driving it, or the track days... Cuz I'll only do 5 track days a year, so if the latter, that's of much lesser importance. The M2 owners rave about how nimble it is driving it every day...

You'll notice it on the street for sure (maybe even more so then on the track). I jumped out of my ZCP M3 and into a M2, and it was immediately noticeable how nimble the M2 was. Really feels like a proper sized car IMO. Get whatever you like the best and don't look back.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

You'll notice it on the street for sure (maybe even more so then on the track). I jumped out of my ZCP M3 and into a M2, and it was immediately noticeable how nimble the M2 was. Really feels like a proper sized car IMO. Get whatever you like the best and don't look back.

Oh great, thanks for not helping! LOL. I've been in a dilemma forever and can't make up my mind. Love the looks of the M4, its comp pack seats, the extra power, and adjustable suspension, but the agility / nimbleness of the M2 (I've yet to drive one) keeps me thinking maybe that's what I want...

The M2 you drove in though, is it the one you mentioned above with the aftermarket suspension (TCKline's M2)? Was it tuned also (the engine)?