Sportauto supertest Nurburgring and Hockenheim laptimes: 7.52 / 1:12.18 min

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I don't think a consensus was ever achieved on this

In the interim, I can only rely on the official rating

Last issue of Sport Auto has the Supertest of the M5 CP, they had some interesting comments after their MAHA dyno session, which was also one of the issues we discussed in those underrated or not threads. I have not yet received my copy of the magazine in the mail, so I don't know what lap time it did on the Nurburgring.

http://www.sportauto.de/marken/news/...r-8867640.html

Performance is to be replaced by nothing, except by even more power. This classic statement of automotive transport, originally coined by the displacement, drives us all - readers as well as automotive editors.
On one hand, we all want more and more power, on the other hand suspicions have been around forever, that car manufacturers gives us - the test editors - vehicles with more power than std to achieve a better result.

Competition BMW M5 with 649 HP
We have responded to this review a long time ago and introduced a chassis dynamometer measurement of engine performance, since the Supertests of 2012. We also test vehicles from our comparison tests. The word has spread, so we now have a lot less cases about crazy HP values today – this is now only in exceptional cases.

As in this issue: The current Supertest candidate, the BMW M5 Competition, is specified by the manufacturer only 15 hp more than the standard M5. On our Maha-test it came out with 649 hp instead of 575 hp. A deviation of a substantial 12.8 percent.

What we delve into here is a rather gray gray area: The law requires that the current series product may differ by no more than +/- 5 percent of the test samples. Legally, this is not relevant unless the engine has a reduced HP and the customer complains.

The German law allows a cancellation of sale (lemon law) for reduced power only when the hp is more than ten percent off the manufacturers claims. If we take into account the measurement tolerance and the repeatedly discussed problem, that test rigs make an air pressure correction, which the engine-ECU also does, then we begin to go round in circles.

In any event, the BMW M5 was under accelerations up to 180 km/h not faster than the base-M5 with the standard measurements...

The point above about correction means that correction factors on the dyno and tolerances throw off the measurements since the DME also corrects for air pressure. In effect you get a "double dipping" effect on corrections on a chassis dyno. First the DME corrects by for instance adding boost to make sure the engine makes the desired output even under detrimental conditions. That results in a true reading on the dyno BEFORE correction factor is applied on the dyno... Add correction factor on the dyno and it corrects a already corrected HP number... This effect is not relevant on a NA motor, since the DME can't add any correctional measures to maintain the same HP level when it's hot or at high altitude. On a NA engine you can only have the DME pull timing or do other Things that loose power under detrimental conditions. On a turbo engine the DME has a "bag of tricks" to make sure it makes the same power on a cold day at seal level as it does on a hot and humid day at high altitiude. This hasn't traditionally been employed on turbo engines, but is used on both the S55 and S63 (which is why many owners report not seeing full boost. That's because full boost is reserved only for those situations where more boost is required to make the stated 560hp)

I guess they basically say that this is a circular debate that probably never will have a conclusion...

However, this dyno test indicates significant underrating of the S63Tu in the M5 CP. Even though Sport Auto discusses exactly the issues we also mentioned with the EU +/- 5% allowed tolerance...

[Boss330]

M5 CP Nurburgring lap time is 7:54

(2s slower than the F82 M4 and 11s quicker than the E92 M3)

Hockenheimring 1:13

(0.2s slower than the M4)

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Boss330

M5 CP Nurburgring lap time is 7:54

(2s slower than the F82 M4 and 11s quicker than the E92 M3)

Hockenheimring 1:13

(0.2s slower than the M4)

With 650 hp on tap on track that rewards big power. Sure seems like the M4 has rubbish, ragged handling with too much TQ for the tires...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

With 650 hp on tap on track that rewards big power. Sure seems like the M4 has rubbish, ragged handling with too much TQ for the tires...

Yeah, that M4 must be rubbish...

BTW, Auto Bild tested the M5 30 Jahre with 600hp. They measured it to 607hp at the crank... They use a different dyno that usually seem to be more consistently close to manufacturer claimed numbers. If they got 607hp on the 600hp version, the CP with 575 should be around 583hp on the dyno tool used by Auto Bild.

But that's not really the point!

As you say, that the M4 is faster on a hp track like the Nurburgring must mean it's not all bad... Auto Bild also said that at the moment it's BMW M that make the best cars of the trio (Audi RS, AMG and BMW M). They have the M5 and M4 cab on comparison tests this issue. And the BMW's win...

[surewin]

Let's not forget that the E92 M3 GTS comes equipped with very sticky sport cup tires. The F80/F82 come with the Super Sports summer tires, so if the F80/F82 were on cup tires, it would even be faster than the E92 M3 GTS on the Nordschleife. Very impressive.

I still want to see how the standard E92 M3 does with sport cups. I'm sure it'll get below 8 min with them on the Nordschleife.

[BMWMP]

Originally Posted by surewin

Let's not forget that the E92 M3 GTS comes equipped with very sticky sport cup tires. The F80/F82 come with the Super Sports summer tires, so if the F80/F82 were on cup tires, it would even be faster than the E92 M3 GTS on the Nordschleife. Very impressive.

I still want to see how the standard E92 M3 does with sport cups. I'm sure it'll get below 8 min with them on the Nordschleife.

Nope.. the standard M3E92 was testet with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup +..Laptime was 8.05min