2018 BMW M4 CS vs. 2018 Porsche 911 GTS - Head 2 Head Ep. 95(Video)

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It will all depend on BMW's pricing strategy. I believe MT are grossly overestimating the US price of the M4CS in this review.

What's your CAD$ estimate? $115k-125k?

[nicknaz]

Wow those 2 got paid to do that! Good for them!

Looks amazingly fun and reminders me of my own tourist laps!

I'm an m3 sedan die hard and have my fingers crossed m3cs will be reviewed as favorably as m4cs

i personally thought the m4cs had a great showing there. Those guys were having a lot of fun and it's a cheaper and more practical car. Classic "dual purpose" compromise / benefit of m car shining through in my opinion.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Same retardedness magazines give us when they compare the M4 GTS to the GT3 RS.

The M4 CS will likely cost around 100k, so it should be compared against a base 911.

The 911 GTS is 130k with almost zero equipment. That is the competition to the M4 GTS.

In the UK...M4CS is apples to apples vs a 911 GTS both £90k ish starting price. Looks like the GTS is quite a bit more in other markets the ?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The gap is the same in relative terms.

It is also important to note that the M4CS is not a special limited and exclusive edition model like the M4GTS. It does not have that much unique parts.

I hope I am right too. If the price is ridculous, I'll be getting a well optioned CP instead, which means I have waited all this time in vain (I had originally planned to swap my 2015 M4 this past summer).

Oops! You fell off the BMW LCI Re-lease wheel.... they were doing all they could to get you to bite on an LCI ZCP first ... and then get you to move up to CS...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

What's your CAD$ estimate? $115k-125k?

About $114k CAD with a $111k~$118k range.

Canadian pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=39

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

About $114k CAD with a $111k~$118k range.

Canadian pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=39

I think you might be a bit light, but time will tell. Hopefully it's on the lower end for everyone's sake, but I anticipate seeing it at ~$120k. Looking forward to seeing one in the flesh.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Wow those 2 got paid to do that! Good for them!

Looks amazingly fun and reminders me of my own tourist laps!

I'm an m3 sedan die hard and have my fingers crossed m3cs will be reviewed as favorably as m4cs

i personally thought the m4cs had a great showing there. Those guys were having a lot of fun and it's a cheaper and more practical car. Classic "dual purpose" compromise / benefit of m car shining through in my opinion.

Well said. This review confirmed how I feel about the M4, it's a fun and rowdy car, a little stiff and jerky but a great daily driver. Now add in two more doors aka M3 and it's a real deal Daily driver.

The GTS 2.8 seconds 0 to 60 is pretty incredible.

[adc]

So basically considering price, stick availability and performance the pick of the range for a dual purpose DD/track car is still a ZCP M3 plus a set of track wheels.

You’d need a $120k+ Porsche to beat that, and of course the practicality aspect would take a dive.

Or you need to go the Camero ZL1 route.

[Parabolica]

Really the M4 is not a class leader regardless of which model 911 you compare it with. I still think BMW made an error to not option the CS with a manual.

Whereas, the M3 is still a class leader because Porsche doesn't make a comparable 4 door yet.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think you might be a bit light, but time will tell. Hopefully it's on the lower end for everyone's sake, but I anticipate seeing it at ~$120k. Looking forward to seeing one in the flesh.

Have you read the analysis in the post I linked?

How is it "light"?

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by adc

So basically considering price, stick availability and performance the pick of the range for a dual purpose DD/track car is still a ZCP M3 plus a set of track wheels.

You’d need a $120k+ Porsche to beat that, and of course the practicality aspect would take a dive.

Or you need to go the Camero ZL1 route.

Competition seems to be the sweet spot. I don’t agree that you can beat a Carrera S (all other things equal) just based on tires. My reasoning is having seen the comparable laps times on a Carrera s and an M4 GTS which does have a better tire on it. Also think it sounds too apples vs kiwis to say you should compare cars that run two different tires. Might as well add a tune to one and not the other too...
Also, a ZL1 is quite a quick track car, especially the 1LE package. Or you could just go get a C7 Grand Sport for 60k and beat anything under 150k for the most part.

[LOW4LYF]

With CCB def. more than 100K US $

[buddalun]

The new 991.2 911T would have been a better comparison for the M4 CS. Similar price points, power, and "stripped-down," back to the basics vibe. Just my .02

[Deluxx3]

I can't stand that Johnny dude from Auto Trend

Had to stop watching the video as soon as I heard his voice

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think you might be a bit light, but time will tell. Hopefully it's on the lower end for everyone's sake, but I anticipate seeing it at ~$120k. Looking forward to seeing one in the flesh.

You have to also take into account that Bmw dealers will not provide any discounts or incentives on the CS where you can under invoice for a regular M3/4.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

Really the M4 is not a class leader regardless of which model 911 you compare it with. I still think BMW made an error to not option the CS with a manual.

Whereas, the M3 is still a class leader because Porsche doesn't make a comparable 4 door yet.

M3/m4 class is not 911. It's c63, rs5 etc

It's fun to compare 911 and m3 but we all know how that comparison will go (the hosts said it themselves.. 7:24 vs 7:35) and I don't think anyone on these boards really cares either... and if you stepped back and looked at how much FUN they were having in both cars, that's the real point here

I agree. MT would have been a nice option but easy enough to get a civic m3 and modify to replicate yourself

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by IB M

The GTS 2.8 seconds 0 to 60 is pretty incredible.

Wait until you'll drive a C4 GTS, I've heard it will do 2.4 sec 0 - 100kph lol

Porsche already thought ahead of everything...You could tune a base to a S/GTS level, you could tune a GTS to the Turbo level and of course on and on.

It's a great time to own a .2 Porsche if you could swing it!!!

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Competition seems to be the sweet spot. I don’t agree that you can beat a Carrera S (all other things equal) just based on tires. My reasoning is having seen the comparable laps times on a Carrera s and an M4 GTS which does have a better tire on it. Also think it sounds too apples vs kiwis to say you should compare cars that run two different tires. Might as well add a tune to one and not the other too...
Also, a ZL1 is quite a quick track car, especially the 1LE package. Or you could just go get a C7 Grand Sport for 60k and beat anything under 150k for the most part.

The C7 would have been a great car had it not been for the poor legroom and headroom space. Last but not least the safety for crashes is not good in them Vettes. Aside from these 3 weaknesses it would have been a no brainer car to buy

[hi_officer]

IMO..... BMW is playing outside their core market with the M3/4 CS.

The M3/4 is a solid, jack-of-all-trades kind of car in the ~$75k range. $100k+ for a sportier version of the same car is a tough sale. I understand the GTS it works since it is a LE.

BMW won't be able to successfully charge MORE for sportier versions unless segmentation among the models become more apparent. Take Porsche for example, the C2 and C2S are your base models for the daily driver/everyday buyer, they also have Targa models for more style oriented buyers in a higher price range, and then there are the real Turbos in a much different price category that offers hypercar performance and daily drivability, and finally the GT cars that are track focused.

The base M3/4->ZCP->CS are just slightly sportier versions. The look, performance, price category, and overall focus of the cars are negligible.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Have you read the analysis in the post I linked?

How is it "light"?

Originally Posted by Parabolica

You have to also take into account that Bmw dealers will not provide any discounts or incentives on the CS where you can under invoice for a regular M3/4.

Yes, when it's first released... but what does your comment have anything to do with MSRP?

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Have you read the analysis in the post I linked?

How is it "light"?

Yes. Because I think your estimate is low.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Yes. Because I think your estimate is low.

OK then, what is your rational to think it is low?

[bsas340i]

I don't know what to think of Motor Trend anymore. Even aside their consistent bad-mouthing of BMW products in the last few years, it's hard to enjoy their magazine or video content. I'm not a fan of the laid-back style of these videos. Jethro is definitely a nice addition to their team.

For me, this video just leaves a lot to be desired. I get that they want to compare the two cars and take that as a compliment to the BMW since the Porsche is a very capable car and, at least in my opinion, in a different class. A nicely equipped GTS will easily be around $140k plus. The one they tested with carbon ceramic brakes and rear wheel steering could possibly be close to $150,000. We all know that the M4 CS will not be priced like that. The BMW is also the lightest in its class, which is not the class of the 911 where it appears big and heavy. If the review was supposed to insinuate that the M4 CS is getting close to 911 territory, why not compare it to a Carrera S? I think they would be a closer match, even though the Porsche will still be a more expensive vehicle.

Lieberman has to be very grateful for the position he was given. He's a master at stating the obvious and repeating read stats. His whiny voice along with the hipster beard don't help but distract even when he might seldomly say something of substance. To think that this guy flies around the world driving exotic cars and gets paid for it! He's average at best. I guess I got spoiled by amazing writers like Peter Egan (Road & Track, Cycle World). His articles are special, they bring perspective and it's easy to immerse yourself into his writing. He also delivers with a bit of humor which is always welcome. None of the "this one has four hundred and seventeen horsepower which is 5 horsepower more than X and 390 pound feet of torque which is 12 more than Y, the Nurburgring time is blah blah and zero to sixty is blah blah blah". I love numbers and stats, but I can read them too.

With this rant, I'm not stating that I could do what they do. Otherwise I would be in line for an interview to do what "Jonny" does and get paid for driving my fat arse around the Nordscheleife. As a former Motor Trend subscriber for many years, I considered myself their customer. With the choice of superior journalism available, there wasn't a need to keep supporting guys like Lieberman or Camissa. On the other hand, Motor Trend's photography and video editing are top notch. But so is Petrolicious and Drivetribe at the exact same cost. I also enjoyed Motor Trend's overly technical tests where it seemed they had the equipment to compare mid-corner G forces to tire load, to weather and the driver's shoe size in relation to vehicle dynamics.

Back to the cars, I'm not upset that the BMW didn't win the comparison. It was obvious from the very beginning. Porsche's technology combined by lightweight seems to have given them the edge. I still can't fathom that the GT2 RS can drive around a racetrack faster than many race cars out there and by the time the event is done, the race cars are getting loaded back in the trailer, the GT2 RS is driven back home. Yes, BMW is taking advantage of building different versions of the same car by tweaking here and there while charging you more every time. Which is exactly what Porsche does and they are pretty successful at it. They have, if I counted correctly, 22 variations of the same car which starts at $92k and ends at the fictitious $294k of the GT2 RS. So, a $200k gap for essentially the same car. By the way, I say fictitious not because it's not worth it, but because none of them will sell for that sum. They will sell for possibly 2 or 3 times that amount. At the end of the day, it's all about the money. I've grown to love Porsches because of the company's dedication to racing. At the same time, I'm sure some of their hardcore fans are not too proud of their precious badge adorning the hood of a $60,000 4-cylinder SUV.

What I like about all these different editions and reviewers talking about "this is the one to get" is that they make the normal M3/M4 seem affordable...

As always, keep in mind, all of the above is only MY opinion.