Cost of Ownership: E92 M3 vs F82 M3

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

Lovely. I've been thinking of ditching mine and probably still owe 49k or so. Ugh.

EDIT: Actually I just checked, my payoff is 50,045. Worse ugh.

You owe $50k on a 2015 m3?

Ugh.

By the way, these cars are depreciating almost exactly like the e9x models. You've already eaten most of the depreciation. Switching cars now may be a worse financial move because of transaction costs on top of depreciation realities on top of the fact that selling a newer vehicle for an older semi-exotic german sports car makes it more likely you'll have a meaningful expense in the near term.

[Ian1973]

I do... I did the select financing with BMW, so at the end of 4 years I will owe them a balloon payment of 34k. I figured my car would be worth more than that at the end of 4 years.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

I do... I did the select financing with BMW, so at the end of 4 years I will owe them a balloon payment of 34k. I figured my car would be worth more than that at the end of 4 years.

You?ll be pretty close to spot on.

If in great condition.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

I do... I did the select financing with BMW, so at the end of 4 years I will owe them a balloon payment of 34k. I figured my car would be worth more than that at the end of 4 years.

Well go look at 3 year old f80s in good shape with 25-40k miles on them. They are going for 45-55k, depending on original optioning, mileage, condition. They've depreciated ~17-30k in 3 years ($30k for the highest optioned models with a bit more mileage)

Now that depreciation is slowing down after 3 years, so between the 3rd and 4th year I'd expect another $5k-$7.5k.

In other words, in my opinion based upon my own research and experience, I wouldn't expect any f80 m3 with 35-55k miles on it - and in excellent condition - to go for less than $38-40k next year assuming excellent condition. And a higher optioned, lower mileage, super clean version would likely go for ~$47k still.

Good luck to you

[nicknaz]

High options cars hitting most depreciation is no surprise. That's pretty much the norm for most cars

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the repair risk. at least in your f80 you still have some full maintenance and warranty

[IrvineTim]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

How did you come up with your figure off $1,000 depreciation each month. I've seen many posts with links to F82's on here and on AutoTrader that have used 2016's with roughly 10K miles on them still going for mid to high 60's, most on the higher side.

Can anyone chime in on the validity of the OP numbers - I can't imagine 5 year old, low mile F8X would only have a value of $15-20,000.

they might be listed for that, but they are not selling. OP is right, 1k a month depreciation. I sold my 16 m4 after trying for 2 months for 56.5k, and it was cherry, low miles(11k), dct, executive, expel, adaptive, 19s, full merino, and 2 years factory warranty left.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

they might be listed for that, but they are not selling. OP is right, 1k a month depreciation. I sold my 16 m4 after trying for 2 months for 56.5k, and it was cherry, low miles(11k), dct, executive, expel, adaptive, 19s, full merino, and 2 years factory warranty left.

Wait.


In what world is 5,500 miles a month low miles?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Wait.


In what world is 5,500 miles a month low miles?

I got the impression he was trying for 2 mos. to sell a 2-year old car (2 years warranty left), so 5,500 / year.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I got the impression he was trying for 2 mos. to sell a 2-year old car (2 years warranty left), so 5,500 / year.

Aaaahhhhh... I see what you?re saying.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

they might be listed for that, but they are not selling. OP is right, 1k a month depreciation. I sold my 16 m4 after trying for 2 months for 56.5k, and it was cherry, low miles(11k), dct, executive, expel, adaptive, 19s, full merino, and 2 years factory warranty left.

You sold a vehicle one year old for only a bit less than what you can buy a new one for (albeit a stripper model), and during the time it hit maximum depreciation. Yes, $1k a month depreciation IS NORMAL the first year on a ~$70-75k car.

It is not normal after that first year - it slows.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

You sold a vehicle one year old for only a bit less than what you can buy a new one for (albeit a stripper model), and during the time it hit maximum depreciation. Yes, $1k a month depreciation IS NORMAL the first year on a ~$70-75k car.

It is not normal after that first year - it slows.

This.

Obviously the initial depreciation is substantial because if used car prices were too close to new car prices than no one would buy used. Of course this slows up drastically after the first few years otherwise the car would be worthless in short order.

[IrvineTim]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

This.

Obviously the initial depreciation is substantial because if used car prices were too close to new car prices than no one would buy used. Of course this slows up drastically after the first few years otherwise the car would be worthless in short order.

^
Jackpot!
I had fun the 2 years I had it. Was not worth the depreciation factor any longer, let it go.

5k miles a year is low on any planet!

[SonicJlee]

I was concerned about depreciation of my old 2015 F80 which is one of the factors in my decision to trade it in 11 months ago - from my perspective, values of 2015 M3s have been pretty much flat since then (I'm shopping for another F80 right now). If you enjoy the car, I'd recommend keeping it - depreciation of 2015s have slowed down.

[Jockey]

It's dumb to buy a new car and sell it within a year or two. You took all the depreciation.

It's perfectly fine if you want to hold onto a car for 4-6 years. That's what I do.

You a buy a new car because you want a new car. There is no smart financial move there. Selling a car because you are worried about depreciation is silly.

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It's dumb to buy a new car and sell it within a year or two. You took all the depreciation.

It's perfectly fine if you want to hold onto a car for 4-6 years. That's what I do.

You a buy a new car because you want a new car. There is no smart financial move there. Selling a car because you are worried about depreciation is silly.

I say the same thing to everyone, but I never heed my own advice.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

I say the same thing to everyone, but I never heed my own advice.

Haha, it happens. I've done it too.

[shiv.nandak]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

How did you come up with your figure off $1,000 depreciation each month. I've seen many posts with links to F82's on here and on AutoTrader that have used 2016's with roughly 10K miles on them still going for mid to high 60's, most on the higher side.

Can anyone chime in on the validity of the OP numbers - I can't imagine 5 year old, low mile F8X would only have a value of $15-20,000.

The NADA trade in values and autotrader for sale posts are completely different. When i tried to trade in my 2016 M4 with $74k MSRP and 14k miles - all the BMW dealers offered between $50-54k. That wasn't even close to the buyout price on the lease. I was finally able to trade it at $56k (buyout price) after finding a dealer desperate to unload a corvette. This was just 15 months of usage with a 18k hit. I would assume the depreciation will level off at around the $40k mark after a few years.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It's dumb to buy a new car and sell it within a year or two. You took all the depreciation.

Hi, my f80 was $60.4k pre tax and $66.7k post tax (euro delivery) and after 2 yr I got $51.2k for it.

It isn't the end of the world to sell after a short time if you got a good deal up front.

Obviously it isn't as good as other cars that are more limited production but I think there are people who spent way more than that on their leases.

if people took a big hit on their resale after 2 years it's the ones with a lot of options

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi, my f80 was $60.4k pre tax and $66.7k post tax (euro delivery) and after 2 yr I got $51.2k for it.

It isn't the end of the world to sell after a short time if you got a good deal up front.

Obviously it isn't as good as other cars that are more limited production but I think there are people who spent way more than that on their leases.

if people took a big hit on their resale after 2 years it's the ones with a lot of options

Cool. It's not a secret new cars depreciate more in the first 2 years then the curve begins to shallow out.

That's not saying you can't still get a good deal on either end.

[dereksM3]

My point of reference if it helps:

I purchased my 2009 E92 M3 with DCT in 2012 at 26k miles for $43k (it was fully loaded with a sticker of $78-79k if I recall). I drove it for 3yrs, it had basic bolt on's, and I definitely had fun with it until I sold it at about 50k miles. I had ZERO issues with it even purchasing it right at the end of the original warranty.

I sold it in late 2015 with 50k miles on it for $33.5k I believe. I lost roughly $10k over that 3yr period which equates to a little less than $300 a month in depreciation. As previously stated most M cars tend to depreciate much slower after 2-3yrs. In the case of the E90/E92 they hold their value well now and certain E90's damn near appreciate in value.

My recommendation would be from a reliability standpoint is have a full service done on it or purchase one that has already been worked over. At minimum do rod bearing, throttle actuators, motor mounts, pcv system, etc. Just add about $3-4k on top of your assumed purchase price. The S65 is an amazing engine and probably one of the more reliable S engines out there if you do rod bearings and throttle actuators. Unfortunately, if you don't you are playing with fire since some have had issues at 20k miles and others lasted 100k+ miles. It's either $3-4k now for all those items and piece of mind or $25k later.

I wanted to get into a F80 when I sold my E92 but generally wasn't ready to purchase a 1st year new generation M3. I would be confident purchasing a newer ZCP F80 now that certain bugs have been worked out...hence my reasoning for being over here. The 340i has held me over pretty well but the M itch is getting really strong again...even had thoughts of going back to a low mileage E90 which is damn near impossible to find.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by dereksM3

My recommendation would be from a reliability standpoint is have a full service done on it or purchase one that has already been worked over. At minimum do rod bearing, throttle actuators, motor mounts, pcv system, etc. Just add about $3-4k on top of your assumed purchase price. The S65 is an amazing engine and probably one of the more reliable S engines out there if you do rod bearings and throttle actuators. Unfortunately, if you don't you are playing with fire since some have had issues at 20k miles and others lasted 100k+ miles. It's either $3-4k now for all those items and piece of mind or $25k later.

Great anecdotal story - thank you for sharing. That's an amazing depreciation curve for a relatively new M car. For what it's worth, I bought a 2001 m5 (in 2012 with 100k miles on it). I owned it two years and 25,000 miles and my total cost of ownership, including depreciation and repairs/maintenance, came out to about $2,000-$2,500/year. I thought that was really good.

The S65 is an amazing engine and under-appreciated for it's reliability (In fact, I think most M engines are under-appreciated for that). It consumes gobs of oil and sucks for fuel economy, but it's quite reliable.

I'll just chime in that I think the S55 - now that it's over 3 years old - has proven itself to be a remarkable powerplant. It's fuel economy is great for it's output, it doesn't consume oil, and so far as I know it's been a remarkably reliable engine. Some small percentage of tuned users have spun a crank hub - that's about all I've ever seen.

The engine and drivetrain are about the only f80-specific parts that were brand new in 2015 and that you'd worry about - at this point I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2015 f80 (I am biased as an owner). It doesn't appear to have any first year quirks, and the rest of the platform was 4 years old.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

The S65 is an amazing engine and under-appreciated for it's reliability (In fact, I think most M engines are under-appreciated for that). It consumes gobs of oil and sucks for fuel economy, but it's quite reliable.

I'll just chime in that I think the S55 - now that it's over 3 years old - has proven itself to be a remarkable powerplant. It's fuel economy is great for it's output, it doesn't consume oil, and so far as I know it's been a remarkably reliable engine. Some small percentage of tuned users have spun a crank hub - that's about all I've ever seen.

The engine and drivetrain are about the only f80-specific parts that were brand new in 2015 and that you'd worry about - at this point I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2015 f80 (I am biased as an owner). It doesn't appear to have any first year quirks, and the rest of the platform was 4 years old.

Completely agree and as the prior owner of a 2008 E90 M3 I would say the F8x follows the same pattern. I had no issues with my 2008 which was 7 years old and 80k+ miles when I sold it other than throttle actuators once which was covered under warranty and, as you mentioned, was a very common occurrence throughout the life cycle. BMW has seemed to nail reliability out of the gate on both the current and previous M3 models.