Track - Staggered or Square?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Lojs

Yes, it should fit. (Why not 18", do you have CCB?)
But if you run staggered anyway, why not get a 11" rear rim and fit 295 or 305?
No point in square rims if you can't rotate the setup.

^ This

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by Lojs

Yes, it should fit. (Why not 18", do you have CCB?)
But if you run staggered anyway, why not get a 11" rear rim and fit 295 or 305?
No point in square rims if you can't rotate the setup.

Why not 18?

Only 285/35/18 available for the rears in 200 TW are the hankook rs4 is the main reason I guess. 295/305 not available at all.

Why not 11" wide rear wheel?

Not available in 19" from apex from what I can tell at the moment.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

Why not 18?

Only 285/35/18 available for the rears in 200 TW are the hankook rs4 is the main reason I guess. 295/305 not available at all.

Why not 11" wide rear wheel?

Not available in 19" from apex from what I can tell at the moment.

I'm dumb. The PS7 is available 19x11 +25.

Will that fit a 295/305? Offset seems aggressive compared to the 18x11 +44 they offer in the EC7.

they have EC7 in 19x10.5 +22 but that's it.

[wigaster]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

I'm dumb. The PS7 is available 19x11 +25.

Will that fit a 295/305? Offset seems aggressive compared to the 18x11 +44 they offer in the EC7.

they have EC7 in 19x10.5 +22 but that's it.

A group buy just finished for Apex's ARC-8 wheel in a 19X11 that was designed for the f8x. I participated and am expecting delivery in june. This is a brand new wheel. If you call them you may be able to get in on the action. Price is very reasonable. I bought it so I can run a 305 re-71 in the rear. They have a matching 10" wheel for front developed at the same time. You can run a staggered setup with 275 up front and 305 in the back if you wish

[Kung Fu English]

I bit the bullet on the square setup for autocross balance and tire wear concerns.

Would 275/40/18 RS4s fit on a 18x10 +25 square setup?

They seem to be the same size as 275/35/19 that most run in 19s. Any pros/cons to the choices?

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

I bit the bullet on the square setup for autocross balance and tire wear concerns.

Would 275/40/18 RS4s fit on a 18x10 +25 square setup?

They seem to be the same size as 275/35/19 that most run in 19s. Any pros/cons to the choices?

Booo! You gave in man, I'm disappointed.

Let us know how it turns out tho!

staggered ftw

[mercedesc63]

I personally had a 265/35 front and 305/30 rear... no issues apparently it only interferes in speeds over 100mph (feels a little skwirmy) it just thinks your slipping. It rode pretty hard but at the same time had the exact same tread size as a M5 spec 295/35. Re-11.
Looks better but ride quality is sacrificed and speeds over 100mph it interferes slightly.


The best setup hands down is the AMG GTS 265/35/19 and 295/35/19 M5 spec. It combines better ride equality with better performance. Doesn't look as good as the 305/30 but the 30 profile sidewall is very thin.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Booo! You gave in man, I'm disappointed.

Let us know how it turns out tho!

staggered ftw

hah it came down to i wanted 18s and there were no good staggered 18" setups for 200 TW and 19" staggered setups were going to cost like 400 more per tire set for worse tires. So the financials took precedent for now.

I didn't think 275/40/18 and 295/40/18 RS4 would fit staggered on the stock setup without camber plates etc and I'm not getting into all that for now.

[ctgeorge]

Posting my setup for reference:

Apex EC7 18x11 ET44 Rear 18x9.5 ET22 Front with Nitto NT01 275/35 Front 305/35 Rear.

No rubbing or clearance issues as previously reported by other owners. Car has Eibach Pro Kit springs

[scottn2retro]

At the upcoming races at Bimmerfest at Cal (Auto Club) Speedway, we'll have a staggered setup on slicks for the first time, so we'll see how that goes and report back. We'll have:

Front: 270x18 slicks on Apex EC-7 18x10.5" et22 w/ 12mm spacers

Rear: 300x18 slicks on Apex EC-7 18x11" et44 w/ TBD spacers (5 -12)

[archarmy]

I just installed ze40 18x9.5 22 18x11 34 with 275 35 18 and 295 35 18 PSS
I found out the DSC will easily kick in in MDM while cornering lil bit fast or even heavy straight line acceleration. What should I do ? Code euro MDM or switch different tires ? Which size ? I don't really have the balls to turn off traction control durning the track day:P btw my car is stock.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by archarmy

I just installed ze40 18x9.5 22 18x11 34 with 275 35 18 and 295 35 18 PSS
I found out the DSC will easily kick in in MDM while cornering lil bit fast or even heavy straight line acceleration. What should I do ? Code euro MDM or switch different tires ? Which size ? I don't really have the balls to turn off traction control durning the track day:P btw my car is stock.

Look, these are very powerful RWD cars. Unless you mount slick tires some amount of wheel slippage will be part of your tracking, no matter what MDM mode you use or whether you mount 305 tires. It is just physics.
I am not super experienced (10-12 track days). But I truly started enjoying the car when I switched everything off. That is how the car was designed to be.
If you don't have "balls", the best investment would be in professional training and coaching to give you proper skills and confidence. What helped me a lot is one of those wet slippery track drift trainings to understand how to control oversteer and get to know the car beyond the limits of traction.

[elmerzasty]

I concur.

[scottn2retro]

At Auto Club Speedway, we were running 270's up front and 300's in the back and he still wanted more rear grip coming out of the corners

[archarmy]

Originally Posted by Lojs

Look, these are very powerful RWD cars. Unless you mount slick tires some amount of wheel slippage will be part of your tracking, no matter what MDM mode you use or whether you mount 305 tires. It is just physics.
I am not super experienced (10-12 track days). But I truly started enjoying the car when I switched everything off. That is how the car was designed to be.
If you don't have "balls", the best investment would be in professional training and coaching to give you proper skills and confidence. What helped me a lot is one of those wet slippery track drift trainings to understand how to control oversteer and get to know the car beyond the limits of traction.

Thank you for your advise. I definitely should try some training courses .
My set up should be fine? I realize the traction control kick in earlier after I changed my wheel tire set up.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by archarmy

Thank you for your advise. I definitely should try some training courses .
My set up should be fine? I realize the traction control kick in earlier after I changed my wheel tire set up.

Your tires are fine. You preserved the slightly shorter front tire in relation to the rear tire. (I personally run square, so I already screwed up the OEM diameter ratios, if I leave MDM it blinks all the time.)
Make sure you pay attention to tire pressure as the tires heat up. Can have significant impact on grip (as well as relative front/rear grip). A lot of novice drivers oversee that.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by scottn2retro

At Auto Club Speedway, we were running 270's up front and 300's in the back and he still wanted more rear grip coming out of the corners

How did it compare to the old setup? I was looking for this Achilles staggered setup but got priced out of the market and compromised w the Nt-01s.

[scottn2retro]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

How did it compare to the old setup? I was looking for this Achilles staggered setup but got priced out of the market and compromised w the Nt-01s.

I think the car probably turns easier without the massive tires up front. This car is also running a staggered setup now

[Halewafa]

Looking at picking up a square set of Apex PS7 19x10 ET 25. Question for tires, I'm wanting to go with RE71's, would 275/35 be the best way to go? Also, do I need to get new bolts for these or would the bolts from my comp wheels work fine? Thank you!

[M3Tooner]

This is not new news, and many already know about this but for the unaware, I wanted to share my experience with staggered setup of 275/35/R18 + 305/35/R18 NT-01 with stock factory alignment and no other suspension mods on a 2016 M3 Comp Pack. This setup makes the car understeer significantly because the rear has SO much grip but the front has none (relatively speaking). It made the car really frustrating to drive, and chewed the F-up on my front outside shoulder in two days. By the way, I drove with DSC off the whole time.

After fighting with the car all weekend, for the last session of the second day, I decided to swap in my factory 20" CP wheels with factory MPSS tires and go for a try. Wow, what a difference! The improvement in turn-in and reduced understeer was so welcomed. Car was much more balanced and enjoyable to drive even though I had to take it easy on the throttle because the rear would step out much sooner.

I was trying to see if I can get away from using camber plates since I don't plan to drive at 10/10th all the time. Lesson learnt, I should have included camber plates in the setup when i decided to use R-compound tires in a staggered size. OR just went with the largest square setup I can fit. Come to think of it, even with square setup on R-compounds, increasing front camber may still be a must. Anyone tried that?

Now I just have to flip the tires on the wheels and hope they last a few more days with increased camber. I will be ordering camber plates soon. Probably GC since Vorshlag couldn't figure out how to make it work for the F8x yet.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

This is not new news, and many already know about this but for the unaware, I wanted to share my experience with staggered setup of 275/35/R18 + 305/35/R18 NT-01 with stock factory alignment and no other suspension mods on a 2016 M3 Comp Pack. This setup makes the car understeer significantly because the rear has SO much grip but the front has none (relatively speaking). It made the car really frustrating to drive, and chewed the F-up on my front outside shoulder in two days. By the way, I drove with DSC off the whole time.

After fighting with the car all weekend, for the last session of the second day, I decided to swap in my factory 20" CP wheels with factory MPSS tires and go for a try. Wow, what a difference! The improvement in turn-in and reduced understeer was so welcomed. Car was much more balanced and enjoyable to drive even though I had to take it easy on the throttle because the rear would step out much sooner.

I was trying to see if I can get away from using camber plates since I don't plan to drive at 10/10th all the time. Lesson learnt, I should have included camber plates in the setup when i decided to use R-compound tires in a staggered size. OR just went with the largest square setup I can fit. Come to think of it, even with square setup on R-compounds, increasing front camber may still be a must. Anyone tried that?

Now I just have to flip the tires on the wheels and hope they last a few more days with increased camber. I will be ordering camber plates soon. Probably GC since Vorshlag couldn't figure out how to make it work for the F8x yet.

Yeah I dont see any real reason to run aftermarket wheels/aggressive tires on the stock alignment. You're better off just keeping the whole car stock (like you did later with going back to ZCP wheels) and enjoy it. The MPSS go fast though so drive within the tire limits. However, I found the ZCP understeers at about 5/10ths with stock camber so I would recommend camber plates to improve tire life and reduce frustration.

Again, I'm not a fan of the square setup for this car, but I've never ran that setup either. It would be great to rotation front to rear, but I think you'll be limited by what fits upfront.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by M3Tooner

This is not new news, and many already know about this but for the unaware, I wanted to share my experience with staggered setup of 275/35/R18 + 305/35/R18 NT-01 with stock factory alignment and no other suspension mods on a 2016 M3 Comp Pack. This setup makes the car understeer significantly because the rear has SO much grip but the front has none (relatively speaking). It made the car really frustrating to drive, and chewed the F-up on my front outside shoulder in two days. By the way, I drove with DSC off the whole time.

After fighting with the car all weekend, for the last session of the second day, I decided to swap in my factory 20" CP wheels with factory MPSS tires and go for a try. Wow, what a difference! The improvement in turn-in and reduced understeer was so welcomed. Car was much more balanced and enjoyable to drive even though I had to take it easy on the throttle because the rear would step out much sooner.

I was trying to see if I can get away from using camber plates since I don't plan to drive at 10/10th all the time. Lesson learnt, I should have included camber plates in the setup when i decided to use R-compound tires in a staggered size. OR just went with the largest square setup I can fit. Come to think of it, even with square setup on R-compounds, increasing front camber may still be a must. Anyone tried that?

Now I just have to flip the tires on the wheels and hope they last a few more days with increased camber. I will be ordering camber plates soon. Probably GC since Vorshlag couldn't figure out how to make it work for the F8x yet.

Wow that's good to hear but also disappointing. I have a square 200 TW setup and turn in is great but it spins on exit a lot. I was pretty well sold on going to nt01 stagger on my next set but maybe not if it's going to push like crazy and wear the edges like I already do. I don't love how the square setup kind of upsets the balance of over/understeer. It definitely reduces understeer but changes the relative grip front to rear so even though there is way more grip total than OEM it will spin easier and it changes the dynamics.

I'm not real interested in putting in camber plates but I might. I worry about increased harshness. Do plates just increase noise or do they worsen wide quality too?